Discovery suspension lift

[Alan Robertson]

I am thinking about a 2" suspension lift on my 1996 300TDi Discovery. (The kit advertised in Paddocks for 350 quid) I would be interested in any problems that any of you have encountered fitting similar stuff, and any advice would be most welcome.
cheers

[Disco Inferno]

my only advice is make sure the springs are appropriately rated fro the kit you have onthe vehicle and what you intend doing with the vehicle

[Range Rover Blues]

Lift the car and you  screw up the camber
correct the camber and you make the propshaft even worse (the lift starts this off)
You need longer brake flexis, you might need bumpstops, I also fitted cranked rear lower links (arms).

Then your insurance will have a pink fit, it's one of the few mods some will just not touch!!!  ask first.

[Xtremeteam]

fitted a +2 kit on my new 90 & had no probs so far,fitted the paddocks one to a disco & its caused all sorts o probs,needs longer brale hoses all round,steering isnt to bad as i drove it before letting my mate have a go,handles better on the road but i think that was due to the uprated springs n shocks etc

[jensdk]

Hi Allan
I've lifted my Disco '97 Disco 2" with liftkit from Paddocks, Here's what to be aware of:
your brakehose aren't long enough, special the rear ones.
You can't use the antiswaybars offroad, unless you lower them.
Front propshaft will rest on front antiswaybay if you lift the wheels of ground.
The angle at the front propshaft is a bit steep, fit a wide yoke, unless you want to renew the UJ's now and then.
If you use procomp ES9000 dampers be sure that the rearaxle doesn't drop down, 'cause the loop at the top will break off. Could be done with some kind of retainingstrap (procomp).
Handling will improve after some time, the first trips were special
Good luck
remember: when you solved one problem, the next will show up. :?

[Budgie]

All above is the same advice I would give.

I fell into the trap Disco Inferno is on about!
I ordered a kit from MM 4x4 with a 2" lift but wasn't asked/didn't say that I had a winch & bumper, H/D rear bumper, rock sliders etc etc on it so when the kit was fitted it seemed ok but we left on a trip south last year and as soon as the loaded Disco hit undulations in the road out of Ullapool the rear axle was hitting the bumpstops (+2" bumps stops I should add! ) and we had to put up with it until we got back.
I now have +3" lifted springs on there and that did the trick. :D

You need to think why you want a 2" lift, is it to fit larger tyres to gain extra ground clearance for off road or could you get away with only a 1" lift, which could end up giving you +2" if your old springs are shot. This would mean you could use standard height shocks and avoid things like caster correction and propshaft problems.
I would still fit longer brake flexis even with a 1" lift!

[robbie]

you know, call me a bit mad or something, but I dont really see what all the fuss is about lifts... My thought on them is that it makes you think you can go places others cant, or that you didnt before. This means you then attempt more extreme things, this then costs money cos you break things.... a very odd circle to be travelling in, especially if you need the car for other use during the week as I do.

I am happy with where I can get in the Disco, the Shogun, the 90 and the Jimny. Each one has its limits, and as long as you know what that is, no damage will occur..... I like the cheapness of that

<have I opened a can of worms here, or does someone else support my views>

[Jim-Willy]

you know, call me a bit mad or something, but I dont really see what all the fuss is about lifts... My thought on them is that it makes you think you can go places others cant, or that you didnt before. This means you then attempt more extreme things, this then costs money cos you break things.... a very odd circle to be travelling in, especially if you need the car for other use during the week as I do.

I am happy with where I can get in the Disco, the Shogun, the 90 and the Jimny. Each one has its limits, and as long as you know what that is, no damage will occur..... I like the cheapness of that

<have I opened a can of worms here, or does someone else support my views>

I know where you are coming from, the 90 will be lifted shortly as the suspension is tired anyway and i'll fit a winch when funds allow.  My uncle has been driving Landrovers offroad longer than i've been alive and never mods his and would probably still get further than me when i've got all the toys!  Mind you, 4 cars you can afford to break one or two of em can't you

[robbie]

Mind you, 4 cars you can afford to break one or two of em can't you

truth be known, I cant afford one of em, let alone to break one of em  :shock:

[Jim-Willy]

Mind you, 4 cars you can afford to break one or two of em can't you

truth be known, I cant afford one of em, let alone to break one of em  :shock:

Fair enough Matey, are you the bloke that was modifying his wheel arch with a hammer at whitworth las time I went?

[Eeyore]

Can't add too much to what has already been said.

Key things - you'll need to camber correct your steering otherwise it'll all feel a little odd.
You'll need a different front propshaft (a double cardon type from the TD5 Disco is the best bet. Not wishing to disagree with people but a wide yolk front prop only allows greater flex in the UJ - it doesn't overcome the wear problems associated with that flex.

The above will add at least another 300squid to the bill  :shock: .

Nowts cheap in this world  :(

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[robbie]

are you the bloke that was modifying his wheel arch with a hammer at whitworth las time I went?

Yep, my muds were just dragging a small lip of the arch into the tyre. The tapping but the lip back but didnt make any difference, the muds still grabbed it again and dragged it back out. The offset on the mud wheels is greater than the alloys with the AT's, that is the problem.

As always though, things change, the Disco is in use by a mate of mine and the muds have been nicked by my son for his 90, so the arches should be fine for a while  

I am in the Shogun again now for a while, which performs everybit as good as the disco so far, except for the articulation. It does cross axle a little easier than the Disco, it just means I need to take a slightly different line, not have to do heavy mods on it!!  

[Range Rover Blues]

Eyore is right, a wide-angle prop won't solve the pulsing problems with the Disco/RRC front prop, and I havn't needed one on the back yet.

It needs to be a Cardan prop (AKA TD5, CV joint etc) and Wanderer is having all manner of problems finding the flange for one!

As for the anti roll bars (sway bars) this is the cheapest thing to fix, either bin them or fit spacers meant for a towball, the holes are in the right place you only need longer bolts, I use stainless bolts because otherwise they won't come undone within about a week.

Ropbbie makes a good point though, do you really need a lift, if so will 1" not suffice?

[beast5680]

i looked long and hard at whether to fit a lift be it 1",2" etc and read all the arguments, fors and against,s as well and in the end decided for me that all i need was 1" just to gain a bit more clearance and also to allow a larger tyre size to be fitted with a minimum of fouling/body cutting etc.
I fitted wizardbilt 1"spacers under the springs(funds being tight at the time :lol: ) which has given just enough to allow me to fit 265/75x16,s on, when and if i fit newer springs there may be a slight increase in height due to the fact my springs are getting on a bit and have seen better days, but not too much i hope to upset the handling,props and castor angle etc

[Alan Robertson]

Thanks for all the replies.
The main reason for wanting to fit this kit is to improve the axle articulation. At the moment I quite often have a wheel (sometimes two)swinging about in fresh air. Any extra height I can achieve will also lessen the amount of times I have to straighten my rear bumper. I have seen photos on the web of Discoverys with two inch lifts showing some amazing articulation and want to achieve something similar. At the moment I run 245/75 mud terrains with no tyre clearance problems. . Are any of you running a Discovery on a two inch lift without changing prop shafts? If so how bad is any wear or vibration.  Also how bad is the effect of the change in caster. I need to know if it is absolutely necessary to change the propshafts and front radius arms as this will push me over budget. (the kit includes longer brake lines, dislocation cones etc)

[Budgie]

Alan,
You can fit the lift without the radius arm & propshafts. You will notice that the steering wanders, follows the lines in the road and the self centering doesn't work as well as it did.
If you use the caster correction radius arms then this lowers the flange on the front diff and increases the angle on the U/J at the transfer box end of the propshaft, causing the pulsing the RRB is talking about. The Carden jointed prop will sort this out, at a price!

You could go for +1" lift springs with standard size gas shocks and use -2" shock mounts on the rear and -2" shock turrets on the front to give you the extra articulation you're looking for. You still need the brake lines but not the radius arms and propshaft.  

[Wanderer]

Every one I've driven with a 2" lift had vague steering due to the camber angle being changed.
AIUI the camber is supposed to be between 2 and 4 degree positive (tolerance)

The camber gets to be a problem as it goes negative.

A 2" lift will normally be about -3 degree.

So if with tolerance it starts at 4 degrees then you'll end up with 1 degree positive.
If it starts at 2 degrees positive then you'll go to 1 degree negative which then has a very adverse effect on the steering.
The steering will sometimes not self centre and it will be very vague with you always having to correct it (especially when towing)

So to correct that you fit castor correcting arms or bushes (bushes not an option in my opinion)

Without the castor correction there may be slight rumble on the prop (may be) With the castor correction the diff is rotated back to it's normalish position but the angle between the diff and the t box has the Uj at the diff end working in virtually a straight line.
The Uj at the T box end is working at more of an angle and it is NOT sharing the load with the diff UJ. So it works harder and will begin to oscillate.
I can't recall the technical term off hand.
It then causes premature wear of the UJ, the transfer box front output seal and the transfer box front output bearing and may do damage further up the transmission.

Those are my understandings. So it doesn't effect every lift in exactly the same way.

At the moment I have had to replace the castor correcting arms with a standard set until I can sort the oscillation out with a TD5 prop and flange as it was doing a fair amount of damage to the t box seals taking them out within 100 miles each time.

When you fit the castor correcting arms the vehicle is a dream to drive as opposed to (showing my age now) feeling like you're driving an old commer camper.

HTH

Ed

[Wanderer]

Looks like we tryped at the same time Budgie.. :)

Ed

[barmiebrumie]

Can't add too much to what has already been said.

Key things - you'll need to camber correct your steering otherwise it'll all feel a little odd.
You'll need a different front propshaft (a double cardon type from the TD5 Disco is the best bet. Not wishing to disagree with people but a wide yolk front prop only allows greater flex in the UJ - it doesn't overcome the wear problems associated with that flex.

The above will add at least another 300squid to the bill  :shock: .

Nowts cheap in this world  :(

cheers
 8)

Hi, can you tell me if the td5 prop's fit straight onto a 1976 rangie? as i have a lift kit on it & front prop is at a very tight angle, was thinking about these double yoke's but they seem very expensive, as could buy second hand td5's.

thanks in advance  BB.
Eeyore

[Eeyore]

IIRC the TD5 prop won't fit - the output flange PCD is different.

An adpator can be readily made or bought for a few sheckles. When the old fourms are available again a detail drawing of an adaptor has been posted (apologies to the poster but I can't remember who it was!).

My choice would be to keep the exisiting output flange (I doubt the TD5 output flange will fit, anyway).
, fit an adaptor and run with a shortened, custom prop. That way if you destroy the new one, your existing Rangie prop can be fitted by removing the spacer (instead of having to swap flanges).

As you're only in Brumagen, try giving Dave Mac Propshafts (in Coventry) a call - 024 7668 3239. Propshaft builder to the stars!

1976? Will that be running that bizarre monoblock gearbox and transfer box with the air operated diff?

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[muddyweb]

<snip>My choice would be to keep the exisiting output flange (I doubt the TD5 output flange will fit, anyway).

Will that be running that bizarre monoblock gearbox and transfer box with the air operated diff?
</snip>

The Td5 output flange will fit on an LT230 box.. the key issue is the length of the front propshaft (which varies depending on the gearbox / engine)

The LT95 diff lock is vacuum operated... so it's more a lack-of-air operated device ;-)

[Eeyore]

So the question is - which went on the 76 Rangie?

And yes, techically, you are, as pretty much always, correct. Vacuum is the absence of air. Although, the reliability of such units is such that the term 'air not operated' may suit.

<ahem>

This is Eeyore, for Mud-Club, clutching at straws. Back to the studio......

cheers
 8)
Eeyore
(currently residing in the 'Live in hope, die in despair' File)

[muddyweb]

'76 RR should be the LT95, which as you say will have a different output flange.  ISTR it has less splines.

[Eeyore]

Ta! I had a feeling it was the splines that were different.

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[barmiebrumie]

Thanks guy's so i cant take a prop off swmbo's disco then :lol: ,
will give your man a call in cov & see how many beer tokens for two prop's, just think i used to have money until i bought two landrovers ,
( love both of them),

yes lt95 box is fitted, would like to fit another with overdrive or even 5 speed as 3.8 perkins very slow on the road,

thanks BB.

[Range Rover Blues]

I have a TD5 flange, fitted to a B-W Transfer box (smug mode) then I had to have the prop lengthened (smug mode off) .  In truth it needed doing anyway as the item was a bit more worn than I was lead to believe, but it was a rare E-Blag bargain!

I would suggest an adapter on the box allowing you to fit the TD5 prop, it does add a tiny bit to the angle but will help with propshaft clearance and, as has been said, makes for a bolt-on mod so is easily undone, at the side of the road, in the dark :?

HOWEVER, you do not need a lift to get better articulation, see Scorpion racings extreme kit for one, relocation cones, cranked rear arms, longer dampers and hoses, STANDARD SPRINGS.



Funny how all the people telling you not to lift it seem to have lifted motors though isn't it

[Skywalker]

When you fit the castor correcting arms the vehicle is a dream to drive as opposed to (showing my age now) feeling like you're driving an old commer camper.

Ed

Commer Camper  :shock:

I remember them  :oops:

Thank God technology has moved on................................. apart from at Solihull that is.   :roll:

I had some slight vibration problems after a lift on the CrewCab, double Cardan jointed propshaft + disco output flange fron Devon 4x4 did the trick, they were doing them at a pretty good price (£159 + the dreaded),

Dave

[Range Rover Blues]

And if we all knew then what we know now soemone would have been killed in the rush!  That flange is £30 on it's own!

[Budgie]

Funny how all the people telling you not to lift it seem to have lifted motors though isn't it

We would all know best then!!  :D