Chip and pin!

[beast5680]

I have had to have a new credit card as just recently every time i use it it doesnt request the pin number and always wants a signature instead, i didnt wory about this until i had to use one of these new fangled hand held jobbies, you may have seen them in restaurants, but the one i used is on the snap on van we have come round( :-$ dont tell the wife i,ve been on it again) where it displayed "do not honour card". 3 times we tried and 3 times it failed  so i ring up Halifax card services who tell me i,ve had a chip failure about 2 weeks previously :roll:
So if my card was stolen anybody could have used it and signed for it as i didnt need the pin?, when i asked why they hadnt notified me if they knew the chip had failed and the card was still being used i got the answer "we dont do that you have to request a new card"
so much for technology then!

[TimM]

In my mind the chip and pin method which was brought out to improve security IS WORSE.

If they can read your card details with there machines, can they not also read you pin number?

Also with a small video camera or a good set of eyes 'people' can relatively easily find your code, and after say a quick 'bag snatch' will have unlimited access to your spending power.

If the retailer pays proper attention (which I know most of them don't) a good old fashioned signature is much harder to forge.

I use two payment cards - one a debit card and the other a credit card, one is signature and one is chip and pin, I don't really have a preference for either system. I just feel they have created a new thing costing a small fortune which can only lead to us having to pay for it somehow.

Tim.

[strapping young lad]

what chance do you have when the banks get hacked and accounts get hacked anyway.

at least with a credit card there is some insurance i think for stolen money?

personally i use chip and pin in preference to signature as then they can copy your signature for malicious purposes

thing is though its mainly the bigger companies who use chip and pin, but they are becoming more common

as long as you are a bit paranoid about where u use the chip and pin and do what i do and move the handset away from the desk and hold in your hand close to you (so they can see what u are typing) as well as from other prying eyes.

[Hightower]

If they can read your card details with there machines, can they not also read you pin number?

No, they can't.  The PIN is not stored on the mag stripe at all.  That is why Chip & PIN has been very effective, where used, to reduce 'skimming' fraud.  C&P, eventually, should negate the need for the customer to ever hand their card to another person.  You will have to put in the reader, type your PIN and then remove it again.
The more people that use C&P, the better it will be for all of us in the long run.  Yes, people can 'see' you typing your code in at a machine, but if you are careful, then this should never happen.

If the retailer pays proper attention (which I know most of them don't)

And that's the point, they don't.  I know of projects that tested retailers, and the vast majority failed to adequately check signatures.  So signing a piece of paper is, in most cases, less secure.

[LOFTY]

Well, chip and pin, signature, it doesnt make any differance, as a couple in Taunton found out last week.
They went to use cash machine, and a gang of 15 forced them to hand it all over.
This has come as a bit of a shock to us in the west country, as this sort of thing is rare down here.
Nobody is going to say no too 15 blokes, unless you like hospital food.

[strapping young lad]

that is indeed a bad thing

but back to this paranoid thing

if i intend going near a cashpoint i look around for dodgy looking characters hanging around, or plenty of passers by

a gang of 15 is quite intimidating and would put me off going near anything like that

[datalas]

it would be nice to think that the chip and pin system worked on some form of one way seeded hash function, in which case the PIN is not stored on the card at all, and the details within the chip make very little sense without the corresponding cryptographic seed (i.e. the pin)

having said that, there isn't a great deal of scope for numbers in a four digit pin, but hey ho, I say go for a 25 digit random string :D

[scottydj2]

it would be nice to think that the chip and pin system worked on some form of one way seeded hash function, in which case the PIN is not stored on the card at all, and the details within the chip make very little sense without the corresponding cryptographic seed (i.e. the pin)

As I understand it, the PIN is stored on the chip, but fully encrypted (usually triple DES with 128bit keys)  :D

The most likely method of someone else obtaining you cash is sadly, as mentioned above - a large group 'requesting' your PIN  :(

[strapping young lad]

or have alphanumeric instead

[TimM]

That would be much better than a 4 digit code.

Some people might find it easier to remember.

Too late though, the billions have been spent already.

Tim.

[Sooty]

As you are all discusing chip and pin (of which I am not a fan) and I know there are some very clever brains on here can somebody answer the question I keep on asking but never answered "why don't they put a mug shot on all credit and debt cards"
Then I can look at the card, look at the the presenter and say "this is not your card and therefore I am not willing to exept it"
Then if a group of 15 approach you they can only make you draw cash and that will never be stoped.

[datalas]

because it would cost money, more money than reimbersing the people which are mugged...

[Manicminer]

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of counter workers(shop staff) who NEVER actually look at the slip of paper before shoving it into the till.
Out of the last 10 purchases I did (before having a Chip & Pin) only 1 checked the signature :roll:

[LOFTY]

When it comes to staff not looking at slips, and cheques for correct signatures, it would seem that unless a cheque is over £5000, they dont check it. I have to sign batches of cheques for my business, i have even put M Mouse as signature, and it still went through. Only once have i been called for a cheque over £10,000, where they said the signature looked strange, i wasnt in the office, and a member of my staff said, "well its a large cheque, he was most proberbly shaking as he signed it", and they let it go through.
rather worrying i think. :?

[iianorthants]

ever noticed in tesco's you can go through the express lane with anyones card as automated and dosn't ask for pin or sig !!!!!!!

[iianorthants]

ever noticed in tesco's you can go through the express lane with anyones card as automated and dosn't ask for pin or sig !!!!!!!