Lifting a 90. Is it worth it?

[Jim-Willy]

My suspension is very tired.  The plan was to lift it 2" as seen as it was all being changed anyway.  I knew i'd need new brake hoses and castor corrected raduis arms but now it seems I may need a front prop aswell (How much are these?) and its got me wondering......Is it worth it, all my problems offroad are due to lack of grip not articulation, the lift is for show rather than cos i need it (although i did fancy 900/16's).  Is it worth it, will i niotice a difference.  Candid and honest replys would be appreciated and maybe a picture of a cross axled 2" lifted 90.  Thanks in advance.

[datalas]

oooh, the $1,000,000 question.

A suspension lift will increase the amount of clearence under the wheel arches, which in turn means that you can further invest in some larger tyres which will raise the differential further from the floor and increase your ground clearence.

It should be noted that you should really get some extended bump stops as well which will reduce any gains in articulation that you get, although you will get some.  The reasons for extending the bump stops are to reduce the risks of you hitting the wheel arches with the wheels.   Reasons for extending the brake hoses and castor correction have been discussed at length, but to summarise,  castor correction helps your self centering (steering) and elongated brake hoses stop you ripping them apart.

Now, as you so succinctly put it you don't run out of articulation all that often and so any of the more esoteric suspension modifications are probably unneccesary, especially in this country where as you say lack of traction is far more common.  If you were going for rock crawling I might say otherwise, but you would be hard pressed to find much rock crawling round here.

a 2" lift on a 90 isn't *that* much in some ways and the vehicle itself will  take it without doing too much to it's handling.  However to do the job properly you will probably be needing the radius arms and prop, although as nelly will testify you can survive for a time without either...

Anyhow, as to whether you need it, that's pretty much up to you, but just putting a new set of springs on is a cheaper option.

[Jake]

Why not invest in some locking diffs instead?
 :D

[littlepow]

just beware you have moved you centre of gravity upwards.
So will effect the angle of side slops that will tip you over, will now be less steep!
Also could effect the look of your present wheels, although bigger tyres will improve this.

[Range Rover Blues]

Bump stops arn't just about the wheels hitting the body, they stop the coils hitting each other too, which can lead to springs busting.

Another mod we never talk about is the body lift, if all you want is more space under the arches why not just lift the body, the C of G wouldn't rise as much so you'd still be stable.  Answer, because a suspension lift DOES increase your clearance on breakover and departure.  Unfortunately the stiffer springs usually employed will decrease articlulation.  I have a 2" lift and I still use standard tyres, well 235/70s at any rate.  If I was starting again I'd compramise with a 1" lift and precious little else.


Just out of interest, how do you define standard height, I have 2 cars, both with supposed 2" lifts and they sit at least 1 1/2 inch different at the front.  Is the Panhard rod level on a standard car, ie the chaasi mount in line with the redundant axle mount?

[muddyweb]

Candid and honest replys would be appreciated and maybe a picture of a cross axled 2" lifted 90.  Thanks in advance.

IMHO, *every* mod you do make on an off-roader should work toward the goal of gaining more traction... without traction you go nowhere, and all the clever bits of stuff on the vehicle don't help.

If your main problem is that you are running out of grip, forget the lift... it only adds a load of other things to consider.  A decent set of tyres and drivetrain updates will yield better results every time.


Here is a cross-axled 90 ;-)

[Range Rover Blues]

If your lack of grip is because you are 'picking up a wheel' then you need to look into mods that will allow extra droop travel, like the Scorpion Extreme kit (notice I said 'like') although even this does not allow you to keep an even spread os weight on each tyre, ultimately this is why you loose traction, even if all 4 wheels are on the ground.  I had thought of using an air assisted spring kit to 'divert' body weight to the back wheel that is drooping, so keeping the grounfd pressure more even at the back end.

Anyway, for off-road ability I'd suggest the softest, most compliant suspension so no-anti roll bars, rubber bushes in your radius arms and perhaps longer shocks.  If money was no object what about a front 3-link kit like Bulli has fitted?

[datalas]

The question then becomes whether merely having the wheel on the floor will provide much in the way of traction, there will still be more weight and friction on the other end of the axle.   Spinning a wheel on the floor (or more likely in mud / wet grass ) isn't *that* much more effective than spinning it in the air.

At some point the question of whether a locking diff isn't more effective has to be raised,  it ends up being a long and hot debate which will soon descend into personal opinion :) if only because of the relative merits of forced articulation over dislocation, and I think that might be a debate left for another day, or show, with beer, and probably Tim :D

[Kenny]

I had this very debate a year or so back - should I ? Should I not ?

Having discussed with various people the consensus that that the 90 as standard is perfectly adequate for off roading.

I had a chat with Dave Marsh (QT Racing) about lifts and he recommended a 1" lift on the shocks and a 2" spring. They found that it gave the best combination especially in the off road events.

I did just that and am more than happy apart from the spring from a dealer based in N London (not allowed to mention names) snapped 6 months in and I had to pay for the repalcement to be delivered and the return spring which came to more than the value of the spring itself. I WILL NEVER use them again!!!!!

Damian

[drmike]

Can I just chip in here and ask a related question.

They suggested a +1" shock and +2" spring? I wonder why, did they explain?

What would the effect be to fit just +2" shocks on standard springs?

If we are saying you want more downward droop then surely that's more effective?

Mike

[Range Rover Blues]

Mike, I think you're right there.  Provided of coourse that a longer shock onm standard springs doesn't 'bottom out' when compressed, if it does that will be the end of it!

I wonder when shocks are labelled +2" are they +1" in the piston and body making 2" or +2" in the piston and body, making 4"?  If you fit longer springs to lift say 2" then fitting shocks that are only 2" longer fully extended doesn't give you any extra articulation, so then it's just about more clearance under the belly and spring spacers plus lower damper mounts can acheive that.

[Jim-Willy]

Ta for the info,  I like the look of the Scrap Iron Racing evolution kit, who else makes a similar kit and how much?  Just out of interest does anyone know a rough guide price for a fancy prop shaft?

[Range Rover Blues]

Do you mean the TD5, I just paid £60 plus postage for a really good one, then there's £30 from a stealer for the flange, or make an adapter.  If it's not the right length then your looking at 2 hours work (£60 plus the dreaded) for lengthen and balance so I'd say both mine will have cost me £135 ish a piece.

BTW I'm going to ask the propshaft builder again about the smaller Cardan joint that I think Toyota use.  Anyone interested if I order a small batch to try and keep the price down a bit?

[drmike]

I wonder when shocks are labelled +2" are they +1" in the piston and body making 2" or +2" in the piston and body, making 4"?  If you fit longer springs to lift say 2" then fitting shocks that are only 2" longer fully extended doesn't give you any extra articulation, so then it's just about more clearance under the belly and spring spacers plus lower damper mounts can acheive that.

I gather that all decent shocks of any length will be designed to accommodate full compression to the bump stops - but I have asked Pro Comp via Bronco to confirm this. It does sound reasonable.

Mike