Topic: Still cant get it to go! (Read 3244 times)

steve prosser · « **on:** November 28, 2005, 22:40:07 »

After working our balls off last week giving the machine new springs dampers, wheels and tyres.
took it out yesterday to foxham ran superbly for about a hour and half or so.
Then decieded it had had enough, cut out and refused to go again and ended up havin to tow it home with the Pajero.
Spent a couple of hours looking for the problem there but with out a full tool kit was a bit lost!

It seems to have lost and spark from the coil
checked all the connections, they seem ok
and have battery voltage at the + side of the coil

replaced the coil got spark back
Still no go!

Tonight just fitted new plugs, HT leads & dist cap & rotor arm.
Still not playin!!

It appears to be flooding, before fitting the new plugs we tried removing plugs, warming them up, turning engine over without them in, then replacing them, no good. hence the new 1s.

New plugs etc fitted hoping it to burst into life, and yet again nothin.
after trying to start you can smell petrol, take plug out and its wet!

Ive studed the other posts that talk about his kind of problem, im now guessing the fault lies with the ecu or air flow meter? (flapper type)

any thoughts or ideas, its starting to do my head in now!!!!!!!! :x

thanks for reading this
1987 RRC 3.5

FITZ4X4 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2005, 12:55:37 »

If it's flooding without firing I would guess it's ignition related.
Are are you sure the leads are on the right way round, worth double checking. I've bought several non-runners to find someones got the leads on the wrong way round. Apologies, if this sounds basic but it's best to start at the begining before looking at AFM's / ECU's etc.

Other classic problems are 'pattern' parts, especially caps, rotor arms, and plugs. Only use branded parts. Best plugs are NGK BP6ES worst are the crap that comes with a Paddocks service kit, only fit for the bin.

Good luck let us know how you get on.

steve prosser · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2005, 13:22:41 »

thanks for that
any ideas gratefully recieved!
i did last night double check the new leads were on right, but i will triple check later on.

the intial fault was that it had been running great, then just cut out, after spending a couple of hours decided to tow it home.

after checking it over found we had no spark!
fitted new coil, which gave us a spark

still no go!
so new plugs etc ( nkg plugs and intermotor dist cap)

still no go!

starting to get annoyed now
so any help is great thanks

Range Rover Blues · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2005, 20:27:31 »

Check the ignition with an old plug stuffed into the coil to dizzy lead and resting on the block, turn it over and look for a nice blue spark. If ok then try again with one of the plug leads, obviously replace the coil lead.

If you get a steady stream of sparks then try connecting up a timing light and check the timing is somewhere near during cranking.

If you are getting a spark try a little easy-start rather than petrol, it should at least cough.

steve prosser · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2005, 21:18:58 »

thanks for that Blues.
im pretty sure that the ignition is functioning ok
will check the timing tomorrow, its strange how it was running so well nothin was touched, nothin get wet at all, and since then nothin

H · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2005, 21:30:20 »

is it cutting out under load? and just dying cant even get it back on the revs with the throttle. mine was doing this for months often at 70 on the motorway, which is scary.. turned out to be the ignition amplifier (little box on the side of the dizzy) gets too hot and breaks down, cuts off the spark.

H

steve prosser · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2005, 21:33:37 »

it wont start at all!

when it died it was hardly reving over tick over.
thought we'd found when we traced and found the coil to be fautly

but still puzzling me

H · « **Reply #7 on:** November 29, 2005, 21:37:03 »

try giving the ignition amp a "tap" see if it will start then. mine often wouldnt start at all until I tapped the dizzy obviously got the broken circuit in the amp connected again and it would start..... other things I was told that caused it to cut out like that was the wires that run from the battery side to the other side accross the top of the radiator shorting out, its the speed sensor for the gearbox or something.

H

steve prosser · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2005, 21:50:45 »

thanks for that
i dont think the ign module is the problem
will investigate the speed sensor
any more details about it?

H · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2005, 22:03:54 »

It was an american site so I didnt really understand it but it was more a cutting out whilst being driven and being able to restart eventually problem than a failing to start at all problem, other things I chacked on mine where the crank angle sensor and the MAS sensor just the other side of the air intake check this isnt earthed as it shouldnt be earthed to give a correct signal to the ECU. I'd check the crank angle sensor 1st though as if this has failed, it will put the ecu into a no start mode.

H

steve prosser · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2005, 22:23:53 »

Cheers for that
i may being thick, but whats the crank angle sensor ?
how did you check it?

H · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2005, 23:00:24 »

ok Ignor that its my memory playing stupid tricks on me again, read it somewhere spent hours lookign for it turns out only the 4.0 had it on the p38, the testing I did turned out to be some sort of oil pressure sensor and I felt a right prat when I relised my mistake, much the same as I do now advising you to check it :oops: I'll get me coat....

H

H · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2005, 23:04:04 »

Just noticed from your pics that its gas converted, could one of the inhibitors that stop the injectors firing when its running on gas be stuck on and stopping fuel getting into the engine?

H

steve prosser · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2005, 08:56:32 »

Thanks for your ideas H

The fault occured when it was running on petrol.

Ive checked the lpg system, it all seems ok
It apears the injectors are getting a pulse of electric ok.
i would of thought that if the change over relay or switching etc was faultly it wouldnt get the flooding like i an?

I had a thought last night although i've tried it both connected and disconnected could the cold start injector be suck in an open position, thus allowing extra petrol to be injected all the time?

Range Rover Blues · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2005, 13:11:21 »

If it's a 3.5 with flapper EFi then you don't have the speed sensor or crank position sensor, all it is is an electric carburettor.

You could try disconnecting your emulators to see if it's that, alternatively you could try a jump lead to your gas cutoff valve and see if it starts up on gas, that's what I've had to do before now. The flapper EFi can be fooled by all sorts of problems, if it is that i'd suggest you get hold of the Haynes manual and run through the multimeter checks listed in the supliment, it's pretty easy to do.

steve prosser · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2005, 13:21:36 »

Thanks for that
mine is the flapper type air flow meter
seemed to be getting voltage to the injector connectors,
how did u get it to start on gas without starting first on petrol?
sound worth a try!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grunter · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2005, 10:22:34 »

Had a problem with my gas converted 3.5efi, turned out to be one of the hoses that runs from the rear of the plenum chamber to the front mostly hidden away, its approx 3/4" diameter, it had come away slightly allowing air into system preventing a vacuum building and opening the flapper,, wouldnt start at all,, it may have been disturbed while looking / changing other stuff..

hope this is of use..

steve prosser · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2005, 10:44:12 »

Thanks for that 1 Grunter
will check when i get home later

thanks again

Range Rover Blues · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2005, 20:07:38 »

If your gas system is like mine then you have a shut-off valve that's opened electrically. The control unit ensures that the engine starts on petrol and switches to gas once it's running, usually you need to blip the throttle. What you can do is use a length of wire to jump from the battery tot he solenoid/shutoff valve at which point you should hear the solenoid click. Assuming the solenoids are wired together at all the cutoff points (tank and engine bay) you should hear the gas escaping. Give it a couple of seconds then remove the wire and try to start the engine. If it coughs at all then try again but leave the jump wire in place untill it's running.

steve prosser · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2005, 22:14:30 »

Thanks for that
Ill give that a try tomorrow night!

steve prosser · « **Reply #20 on:** December 07, 2005, 22:35:21 »

Coming to a complete blank now
and getting very frustrated!!!!

things seemed to be point to the ecu being duff!
found some 1 locally with a spare 1, arranged to borrow it off them last sunday,

firstly we double checked the ignition system, (plug leads in correct order etc) all ok.

fitted new ecu
started up on about first turn of engine!!!!!!!!! :P
by the time we got over it starting, about 20secs, it stopped and wouldnt go again!!!!

where do we go from here???
the only thing that i havent tried yet is to try getting to start on gas,
ive shyed away from this, only because im not sure where to put a lead to operate all the gas valves! maybe i ought to try this?
any more ideas????

thanks

Range Rover Blues · « **Reply #21 on:** December 08, 2005, 01:49:26 »

For the gas, try to locate the wire that goes to the under-bonnet shut off valve, connecting this to the battery should activate it (use a fused wire) and you should hear gas escaping in the evaporator.

As for the ECU, I have a horrible feeling you've fried the replacement, it may have suffered the same malody as the last one, you need to try both of them on a car you know works.

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AuthorTopic: Still cant get it to go! (Read 3244 times)