Are the new Haynes manuals crap?

[woody]

over the weekend i repaired the the rear heated windscreen on the peugeot
OK i've got the haynes so i could check the fuses (all ok)
all the manual said about relays/flasher units was that it had some and although they could look the same they might not be!!!!!
no information on which was which
no wiring diagram no info on the job at all
ok the job turned out to be a faulty earth and has now been sorted

ARE HAYNES MANUALS GETTING MORE VAGUE GIVING LESS TECHY INFO AND ADVISING THAT THIS SHOULD BE LEFT TO SPECIALISTS

[Les Brock]

Used to be resonable for a competent DIY'er...If you did'nt have or want to buy the workshop manual

now the new ones are not a lot of use other than perhaps a door stop !

[TimM]

I'm sure I remember them giving more information for each job, and the index's........ don't get me started there  

[beast5680]

i suppose it would depend on your level of mechanical ability :?  if your a complete novice at mechanics then they provide just enough info not to confuse you but if you are a mechanical sort of person they dont give enough to satisfy you but older manuals i think had more info in them

[thermidorthelobster]

Is it just that the vehicles are getting more complex, and out of the reach of the home mechanic?

[V8MoneyPit]

That may be part of it, but being a retailer of Haynes publications I can add a little....

The Mini one used to include a section on manual gearbox rebuilding. The automatic transmission section gave a simple overview but said that it was a 'specialist job' to rebuild it. The latest Mini manual now also describes a manual gearbox rebuild as a 'specialist job'....

What's changed in the last few years to make it more difficult than it used to be?!!!

The only thing that has improved in my view, is the layout. The Mini one used to have a huge supplement in the back because the original publication was 1976 or something. Every time an update was done, the extra stuff was put in the supplement. Given the production life of the Mini, the supplement was getting almost as big as the main part  :lol: This has been sorted out in the new version.

[Jas278]

Yes there crap, you spend more timing flicking from chapter to chapter ,paragraph this supplementry that, than actualy doing the job, Im glad its not only me that think they have changed for the worse...........

[Damonski]

Becoming more and more crap.

The newer ones seem to be produced by simply filling in the blanks on a Haynes Manual template.

The older, original ones were imho more indepth and offered better advice.

[Rich_P]

Haynes no longer owns, the Haynes Manuals.  It was sold off to some other company I heard, which is why the quality has dropped substantially.

Haynes does race though, seen him I'm sure, at one of the race circuits in the pits.

[Dizzy Dave]

my disco manual says  when you want to take the sump off you have to "jack up the front and remove one end of the steering damper"....rubish i just jacked up the front undid all the sump bolts and span the sump around and slid it out via the thin end, no problem....
mind you i'm glad it came out that way cos the nuts on the steering damper are solid.....  :roll:

[petergalileo]

Old haynes printed on cartridge paper
New Haynes - recycled newspaper

Old haynes - Lots of exploded diagrams
New haynes - Lots of photographs in black and white.

Always annoys me, when they say refer to picture of drain plug location.  The picture is of the drain plug but there are no reference points around it to get the location from.

Old haynes - readable after 5 litres of used engine oil spills over it
new haynes - Oil based papier mashie

Old haynes - Took gale force wind to turn the pages
New haynes - A fly farts 2 counties away and you loose your page

Old haynes - greasy thumbprints all over it was still readable
New haynes - greasy thumbprints you have to come back inside, turn on the pc, get onto mud-club and ask for advice

[petergalileo]

And now for some haynes humour...
 :lol:
Haynes: Rotate anticlockwise.
Translation: Clamp with molegrips (adjustable wrench) then beat repeatedly with hammer anticlockwise. You do know which way is anticlockwise, don't you?

Haynes: Should remove easily.
Translation: Will be corroded into place ... clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with a hammer.

Haynes: This is a snug fit.
Translation: You will skin your knuckles! ... Clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with hammer.

Haynes: This is a tight fit.
Translation: Not a hope in hell matey! ... Clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with hammer.

Haynes: As described in Chapter 7...
Translation: That'll teach you not to read through before you start, now you are looking at scary photos of the inside of a gearbox.

Haynes: Pry...
Translation: Hammer a screwdriver into...

Haynes: Undo...
Translation: Go buy a tin of WD40 (catering size).

Haynes: Ease ...
Translation: Apply superhuman strength to ...

Haynes: Retain tiny spring...
Translation: "Jeez what was that, it nearly had my eye out"!

Haynes: Press and rotate to remove bulb...
Translation: OK - that's the glass bit off, now fetch some good pliers to dig out the bayonet part and remaining glass shards.

Haynes: Lightly...
Translation: Start off lightly and build up till the veins on your forehead are throbbing then re-check the manual because what you are doing now cannot be considered "lightly".

Haynes: Weekly checks...
Translation: If it isn't broken don't fix it!

Haynes: Routine maintenance...
Translation: If it isn't broken... it's about to be!

Haynes: One spanner rating (simple).
Translation: Your Mum could do this... so how did you manage to botch it up?

Haynes: Two spanner rating.
Translation: Now you may think that you can do this because two is a low, tiny, ikkle number... but you also thought that the wiring diagram was a map of the Tokyo underground (in fact that would have been more use to you).

Haynes: Three spanner rating (intermediate).
Translation: Make sure you won't need your car for a couple of days and that your AA cover includes Home Start.

Haynes: Four spanner rating.
Translation: You are seriously considering this aren't you, you pleb!

Haynes: Five spanner rating (expert).
Translation: OK - but don't expect us to ride it afterwards!!!
Translation #2: Don't ever carry your loved ones in it again and don't mention it to your insurance company.

Haynes: If not, you can fabricate your own special tool like this...
Translation: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Haynes: Compress...
Translation: Squeeze with all your might, jump up and down on, swear at, throw at the garage wall, then search for it in the dark corner of the garage whilst muttering "******" repeatedly under your breath.

Haynes: Inspect...
Translation: Squint at really hard and pretend you know what you are looking at, then declare in a loud knowing voice to your wife "Yep, as I thought, it's going to need a new one"!

Haynes: Carefully...
Translation: You are about to cut yourself!

Haynes: Retaining nut...
Translation: Yes, that's it, that big spherical blob of rust.

Haynes: Get an assistant...
Translation: Prepare to humiliate yourself in front of someone you know.

Haynes: Turning the engine will be easier with the spark plugs removed.
Translation: However, starting the engine afterwards will be much harder. Once that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach has subsided, you can start to feel deeply ashamed as you gingerly refit the spark plugs.

Haynes: Refitting is the reverse sequence to removal.
Translation: But you swear in different places. :lol:

Haynes: Prise away plastic locating pegs...
Translation: Snap off...

Haynes: Using a suitable drift or pin-punch...
Translation: The biggest nail in your tool box isn't a suitable drift!

Haynes: Everyday toolkit
Translation: Ensure you have an RAC Card & Mobile Phone

Haynes: Apply moderate heat...
Translation: Placing your mouth near it and huffing isn't moderate heat.
Translation #2: Heat up until glowing red, if it still doesn't come undone use a hacksaw.

Haynes: Apply moderate heat...
Translation: Unless you have a blast furnace, don't bother. Clamp with adjustable wrench then beat repeatedly with hammer.

Haynes: Index
Translation: List of all the things in the book bar the thing you want to do!

Haynes: Remove oil filter using an oil filter chain wrench or length of bicycle chain.
Translation: Stick a screwdriver through it and beat handle repeatedly with a hammer. :lol:

Haynes: Replace old gasket with a new one.
Translation: I know I've got a tube of Krazy Glue around here somewhere.

Haynes: Grease well before refitting.
Translation: Spend an hour searching for your tub of grease before chancing upon a bottle of washing-up liquid. Wipe some congealed washing up liquid from the dispenser nozzle and use that since it's got a similar texture and will probably get you to Halfords to buy some Castrol grease.

Haynes: See illustration for details
Translation: None of the illustrations notes will match the pictured exploded, numbered parts. The unit illustrated is from a previous or variant model. The actual location of the unit is never given. The best one I encountered was how to change a brake sensor in a Ford Fiesta Popular Plus. The photo showing the location of the unit failed to mention the crucial detail of whether the item was located in the engine compartment or inside the car ..... and the helpful photo of what the thing looked like didn't give the reader any clues!

HAYNES GUIDE TO TOOLS OF THE TRADE

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer is nowadays used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the object we are trying to hit.

MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes containing seats and motorcycle jackets.

ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling mounting holes just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel.

PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board princ iple. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.

MOLE-GRIPS/ADJUSTABLE WRENCH: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.

OXYACETELENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside a brake-drum you're trying to get the bearing race out of.

WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older cars and motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2 socket you've been searching for for the last 15 minutes.

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted part you were drying.

WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and hard-earned guitar callouses in about the time it takes you to say, "F...."

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering car to the ground after you have installed your new front disk brake setup, trapping the jack handle firmly under the front wing.

EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a car upward off a hydraulic jack.

TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters.

PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbour to see if he has another hydraulic floor jack.

SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for spreading mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot.

BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes and is ten times harder than any known drill bit.

TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease buildup.

TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile strength of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect.

CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool that inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end without the handle.

BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric acid from a car battery to the inside of your toolbox after determining that your battery is dead as a doornail, just as you thought.

AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw.

INSPECTION LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is not otherwise found under cars at night. Health benefits aside, its main purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate as 105-mm howitzer shells during the Battle of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style paper- and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, as the name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads.

AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a fossil-fuel burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by hose to a pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last tightened 30 years ago by someone in Dagenham, (or Solihul) and rounds them off.

PRY (CROW) BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 pence part.

HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short

[TUFFTEE]

Would'nt buy a brand new one! I would go for second Hand? :lol:

[rokcrawlin]

I had occasion to buy a haynes manual for a range rover in the 80s it includes how to rebuild gearboxes etc, the last eition for the same quotes take the unit to a specialist, I am just wondering if they have fallen foul of the "claims direct" type culture we have now. however if you want a really good set of manuals you cannot beat the landrover ones or an american manual from clymer, who do a better job than haynes ..... but they do have slightly different names for things ,ie; hood ...for the bonnet etc.

[rokcrawlin]

Is it just that the vehicles are getting more complex, and out of the reach of the home mechanic?

no its just that they are trying to get tecky themselves with the stupid page numbering system what you have to remember is that most things mechanical in a car remain the same it is just the infusion of electronics that screw up most things as you need a laptop to read the fault codes
or how to reset the vehicles computor
for example going thro the gears 1-2-3-4-5-6-R turn- off ignition- lock doors leave ign off for 3mins this resets the computer on a disco three and alows you to get home overiding some faults, but the manual wont tell you that

[V8MoneyPit]

Haynes no longer owns, the Haynes Manuals.  It was sold off to some other company I heard, which is why the quality has dropped substantially.

No, as far as I'm aware, Haynes still publish the manuals. They also sell other publishers manuals, mainly US ones. There are some publishers that they used to distribute, that have now gone to other distributors.

[petergalileo]

Quality has dropped but note the price hasn't !

[waveydavey]

My wife is Pregnant (3 months), my sister brought me a Haynes Manual on Babies for Christmas; that's a lot better than all the girlie books.

The interesting thing is it's about a quater the thickness of a Land Rover Haynes Manual, does that mean children are 4 times easier?

[petergalileo]

No they aint !!! I have 5 of em

If you think a haynes manual is going to be able to cover it better get some therapy for next christmas !

[James.Harwood]

Have to admit that i have branded them the 'Haynes book of Bull S**T'.

Classic example, when rebuilding the gear box i found the line 'remove spring clip'.  HOW!!!!  it is half way down a shaft with another shaft over the top.   2 hours of bad language.  a bit further - 'replace spring clip'......................

[Sheddy]

First, remove the battery earth lead......
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now check the washer fluid level.

[muddyjames]

I wanted to change the thermostat on my disco recently. bought a new thermostat, looked in haynes manual, found thermostat (diesel only) in index, looked up section, no photo, looked in next topic down had a photo and manage to refer to that one where the thermostat was, me and my mate took it out, dribbles of oil came out from bottom of engine, looked at old thermostat and looked at new. New one was 'king massive compared to the old one, went back to garage where I bought part from and complained they sold me the wrong one, I had a gut feeling there was a water thermostat but nothing in index to say "water thermostat", texted matt_h and he said there was a water thermostat it was by big black engine cover, me being me and not very skiled with engines yet I didnt know what I was looking at, found a bleeding plastic cap and un did it and could feel with my little finger the h20 stat, I had no idea how it came out and I couldnt get pipes off, went to matts house and he did it in 30 minutes.

Morrel of the story. Throw the haynes manual out as it just scares you and go to  a mates and learn from them. So much better. Matt found the h2o stat in the index but under something obscure. I still cant find it now.