..and so the truth is out.

[Thrasher]

Ford DO want to take all they can from Land Rover :(

http://trucks.about.com/od/conceptcars/ss/fordfairlane.htm

I hate being right :(

http://trucks.about.com/od/conceptcars/ss/fordfairlane_3.htm

Does that look familiar???????

[Rich_P]

Land Rover is going to be completely absorbed by the Ford group within the next 10 years I think.  So basically, this is the end of Land Rover as we knew it.

[Damonski]

OMG that is uglier that a D3 tho  :lol:

[TUFFTEE]

I guessed that they would RAPE Land rover for what Technoligy they can get? Then Discard like a piece of old Newspaper! :shock:

[iianorthants]

some odd unknow jap company will end up buying the name and sticking it on a Ssangyong or something similar :)

[TUFFTEE]

We as the Mud-Cliub should get together and try and Buy The Land Rover Trade Mark! Before they Destroy it? :shock:

[Rich_P]

I guessed that they would RAPE Land rover for what Technoligy they can get? Then Discard like a piece of old Newspaper! :shock:

That's exactly what BMW did.  The BMW X5 was developed from the Range Rover technology.

Ford, for a long time, have been wanting Land Rover, as it has more sales than the Ford's own "SUVs" as they say.

[BrumLee]

Looks like they've done the same to a RR as they did to the Disco, stick an awful back end on it and bodylines that don't suit it  :shock:  :roll:

[TimM]

That's exactly what BMW did.  The BMW X5 was developed from the Range Rover technology.

If ford do the same as B*M did, then the new ford will be C*@p just like the X5, and then we can keep the proper stuff for ourselves.

[TUFFTEE]

Looks like they've done the same to a RR as they did to the Disco, stick an awful back end on it and bodylines that don't suit it  :shock:  :roll:

Landie Transit Van! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Rich_P]

That's exactly what BMW did.  The BMW X5 was developed from the Range Rover technology.

If ford do the same as B*M did, then the new ford will be C*@p just like the X5, and then we can keep the proper stuff for ourselves.

If BMW did actually put some worthwhile tyres on in the first place, the X5 probably could do nearly if not as good as the Range Rover at the time.

[thermidorthelobster]

Land Rover is going to be completely absorbed by the Ford group within the next 10 years I think.  So basically, this is the end of Land Rover as we knew it.

I don't agree.  Land Rover is a very strong brand.  They are great at marketing.  The marque has value to Ford in several areas:  the brand itself, the engineering & design capabilities, the customer base (which is as loyal as they come) and the physical assets.  Of these, only the physical assets and the engineering are valuable to Ford if they assimilate them.  By getting rid of Land Rover as we know it, they'd be throwing out the customer base and the brand, which is the major part of the value of the company.  Ford knows this as well as anybody.

[Rich_P]

The impression I get, is most of the Land Rover sales are for the badge, not the vehicle capabilities, now.  Just take a look at how many Freelanders are about, and very few will have been used off-road, and they would have been lucky to even touch anything other than tarmac and concrete!

It feels like the Land Rover badge has become just that, a badge to show off, just like Nike.

[thermidorthelobster]

You have to remember that Land Rover's main goal is to sell vehicles at a profit.  They make most profit on the most expensive vehicles.  Until a couple of years ago they didn't make any profit at all on Defender.

In order to do this, they have established a strong brand and sell vehicles to a variety of people on the basis of this brand.  Does it matter if not many of them go off-road?  Why would it?

I hear the "Land Rover don't care about us any more" argument quite a lot.  But what do people expect them to do?  Kill off Range Rovers and Discoveries and just sell Defenders to a dwindling bunch of enthusiasts?

Land Rover don't operate to keep us happy;  they operate to sell cars at a profit!  Get over it!  If people aren't happy with this then they should probably buy Santanas instead.

If we all do that, then their brand loses value, but it's pretty strong now on its own, I'd say.

Nothing personal, Steel, but I want to put forward the other viewpoint.

[TimM]

If BMW did actually put some worthwhile tyres on in the first place, the X5 probably could do nearly if not as good as the Range Rover at the time.

 :shock:

Naaahhhh, loads of reasons you wouldn't want an X5 off road (I won't slate them for on-road   ), as a starter for 10 - there is no low range, and that should be a good start (or a good STOP for the X5  :lol: )

[Rich_P]

thermidorthelobster, I was never disputing that Land Rover make cars to sell.  It's just how I feel that the brand name has just ceased being what it used to be. :)

More and more people just buy the vehicles for the name.  I bet the sales may be differant if the very same vehicles had Ford or Volvo stamped on them rather than Land Rover.  :lol:

[Thrasher]

Um....guys the RR has a lot of X5 (well 7 series as well!) stuff in it as well ... the X5 shares, however, more with the Freelander than the Range Rover...

[Eeyore]

Interestin' thread  :)

Before we all get carried away by the hyperbole police   , lets not forget in all this, the D3 / RRS was NOT based on a Ford product, because the most likely Ford product wasn't good enough, so LR stuck two fingers to Ford and did their own thing instead of raiding the parts bin. The new Freelander isn't based on the likely Ford product (the Escape) because it wasn't good enough. So LR stuck two finger up and did something Ford weren't expecting (albeit with a little help from the parts bin). I'm not even gonna mention where the original LR S1 concept came from!  

At the end of the day, in todays age you can't build D1s or Defenders - the laws just won't let you sell 'em to the big markets anymore. Sadly, times change, although with pride I note we change only with reluctance!

With that new Ford thing, I can't see what the fuss is about. Clearly Ford have taken styling cues from what they consider the best SUV and morphed them into the 'interesting'  :-s  design Thrasher linked to. I really don't see how that implies that LR have been sold up the river, or mugged, or any other of the inappropriate phrases that may have been used.

I think we should also bear in mind that without BMW (as unsrupulous as you like) the L322 RR wouldn't have been a monocoque and wouldn't have been as good. BMW split LR from Rover - now that was a masterstroke  =D>  and was probably the only thing that saved LRs behind from being dragged down with the rest of the Rover group and sold to even more unscrupulous Chinese businesses.

Can't we just be greatful for what we've got? It could have been soooo much worse!  :shock:

But dang, that Ford thing is hideous!

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[H]

Looks like one of the big old toy cars stamped out of sheet tin I used to play with at my grannys

H

[Eeyore]

Looks like one of the big old toy cars stamped out of sheet tin I used to play with at my grannys

H

 :lol:  Spot on!

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[H]

Spot the diference..... Tin Car....

Ford POS

[Eeyore]

Blimey jings! That's uncanny!  :lol:  :lol: *

One looks like a nasty peice of badly folded tin sheet designed around a four years olds perception of an automobile, whilst the other is a childs toy!

Fabulous!  :lol:

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

*Dude - get a mop, quick!

[Manicminer]

Surely at the end of the day Ford will put reliability into LR products as is now evident in the new D3. A LR that doesn't break down - that must be a good thing.

The D3 is a Disco as the Ford designers see it. It's a Discovery and a Ford Explorer rolled into one. It even has the same type of knob to select the driving style.

[Thrasher]

Surely at the end of the day Ford will put reliability into LR products as is now evident in the new D3. A LR that doesn't break down - that must be a good thing.

<splutter>

Er...the new D3 has a rather pathetic reputation at the moment...the only Land Rover to come out of Solihull in the last 4 years which hasn't been tainted with "It's too complicated and will fall to bits" oddly enough is the BMW built RR.....

Problems integrating the Ford systems with the BMW mechanicals are rife..and now they've ripped the BMW systems out the of the 2006 RR - they are also, now sadly, unreliable :(

[muddyweb]

Thermidor, spot on... I've had that self same argument sooo many times.

I've not seen any real evidence that Ford are planning to strip LR of the good bits other than a whole lot of paranoia.

BMW were quite open about the fact that they wanted LR's technology.. still don't understand why everyone made such a fuss about it.

Ford came out at the very start and said they were buying the brand and the history.   Sounds fair to me.

The alternatives are much worse !

[Eeyore]

Surely at the end of the day Ford will put reliability into LR products as is now evident in the new D3. A LR that doesn't break down - that must be a good thing.

The D3 is a Disco as the Ford designers see it. It's a Discovery and a Ford Explorer rolled into one. It even has the same type of knob to select the driving style.

Popular misconception, I'm afraid. Ford stumped up the cash, LR stumped up the product engineering. Ford have this excellent concept of letting niche vehicles develop and prove technologies before they roll 'em out to the parent business. Ever wondered why the Jag XK went aluminium?

Actually, I will have to conceed that Ford US did undertake final sign-off of both D3 and RRS, but as purse string holders, I would expect that.

And as for reliability. Have you seen any of the data from Fs 150, 250 and 350? The US car buyers pay third world money and unfortunately tolerate third world quality.

Okay. I'll accept that there are some similar styling cues accross vehicles, but only in the same way that Opels now look like Renualts and Nissans look like Toyotas and BMWs look like a dogs dinner.  

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Karen696]

I don't agree.  Land Rover is a very strong brand.  They are great at marketing.  The marque has value to Ford in several areas:  the brand itself, the engineering & design capabilities, the customer base (which is as loyal as they come) and the physical assets.  Of these, only the physical assets and the engineering are valuable to Ford if they assimilate them.  By getting rid of Land Rover as we know it, they'd be throwing out the customer base and the brand, which is the major part of the value of the company.  Ford knows this as well as anybody.

The physical asserts aren't worth much.

The technology has already been taken by BMW and then Ford in turn.

What is left is the badge.

You only have to look at the freelanders and the new disco to see that Ford like BMW before them want to sell "Landrovers" to people who want the badge not the real thing.

Take a moment to look at Ford's latest billboard adverts for the new (latest?) fiesta - with its marketing line boldy displayed "Forget about MPG - its got MP3".  

(So has my landy, but I wouldn't try to sell it on that basis.)

And this is the type of consumer that Ford's marketing people are interested in.  Unfortunately they are the same crowd as love a bit of 'bling' and dress only in clothes that have the right 'label'.  

Even cheap copies with the right designer label sell to that kind of consumer.