Veg oil

[spy]

I have heard it mentioned a few times and im fascinated!  Come on, how many of you run on veg oil?  I have had a flick round and read a few sites.  

Anyone run a 200tdi on veg oil? What i want to know is have you had a conversion or do you just use part veg oil?  How long have u ran on it without any grief?  Is a heated filter worth bothering with?  Do you use waste or supermarket oil?  How much grief is the paperwork? ;)
 
Any info would be gratefuly received!


Cheers,



Mike

[Karen696]

Bob tried 'tax paid' used veg oil from a local supplier (takes the guess work and paper work out of running on veg oil).

Yep it was cheaper, about a third less (tax paid), but the mpg went down by over a third.  Net result it cost us more to run on the veg oil than on diesel.

Might be different if you splash out on extra filter systems etc, but, that cost money and how long will it take you to recuperate the costs?

[yer auld aunt nelly]

P.m. me bud and ill tell you what i know  

[Xtremeteam]

me & xuxy have discussed

[jaws]

don't run it on veg oil,yeah sure you get a cheap fuel,lighter tax.but also a shorter engine life,near dam impossible cold morning starting....there are pro's and cons for this arguement as long as your arm.but the question is how much do you like your engine!

[Damonski]

There was an article in one of the Land Rover mags with everything you need to know on veggy oil,  says you start the engine on Diesel and switch it off on diesel and switch to the veggy oil whilst the engine has warmed up.

Quite an interesting read....


..... LRO April 2006 ;)

[Xtremeteam]

don't run it on veg oil,yeah sure you get a cheap fuel,lighter tax.but also a shorter engine life,near dam impossible cold morning starting....there are pro's and cons for this arguement as long as your arm.but the question is how much do you like your engine!

hmmmm some how dout that

i know of a few people who have been running 200's & 300tdis for years on the stuff with no ill effect,

[tonycougar]

Yeah I read some info somewhere that said the Yanks had been running trials with it and it had actually increased engine life.

[Brian the Sn@il]

Yeah I read some info somewhere that said the Yanks had been running trials with it and it had actually increased engine life.

it must be like using low octain (campared to petrol)  so if it dosent burn as good, the engine will run cooler and less wear on internals as its not producing the same power ??

[datalas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel  contains a description of most of the advantages etc.

[lrmike]

This is actually one of my favorite topics as I enjoy checking out alternative fuels.  First a few websites to peruse for good information:

http://journeytoforever.org/
http://www.biodieselnow.com/
http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/

These help understand the differences between Biodiesel, SVO (Straight Veg Oil) and WVO (Waste Veg Oil)

Basically though, if you run Biodiesel it's a refined product operationally near identical to dinodiesel.  You can make it yourself (maybe, depending on what your better half will let you get away with) or Stateside we can purchase it commercially.  It can be freely mixed with dinodiesel.

SVO nad WVO are different - basically because they are thicker and require a little work to make operate efficiently in the motor.

There's one guy her in VA running his 110 on WVO - he seems happy so far!

Let me know if you anyone wants more detailed info - I'll get carried away here too easily  :lol:

[LandRoger]

don't run it on veg oil,yeah sure you get a cheap fuel,lighter tax.but also a shorter engine life,near dam impossible cold morning starting....there are pro's and cons for this arguement as long as your arm.but the question is how much do you like your engine!

For your information the diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil or other veggie oils, it is actually BETTER for your engine as it has better lubrication properties than Sulpher ridden diesel, cold starting is ok if the fuel ratio of derv/veg is on the derv side :ie 75/25 or if you have a fuel heater then 100% veg is ok , I have been running a 200tdi on Tesco rape oil for allmost a year 13,000 or more miles -engine feels tighter more powerfull goes the same as straight derv -i run it 50/50 and love saveing money, OIL be seeing ya BTW  I love my engine,

[bezzabsa]

i understand its a bit of a minefield when it comes to declaring it tho'??
was looking into it for the s3..have a few local chippies that would love to be able to get rid of their waste oil cheap.. and i have a shed to do the filtering etc..and was going to run a twin tank setup with a switch and pre filter.. only problem is i only do short journeys..so not really viable

[Range Rover Blues]

Another alternative that's in it's infancy is LPG in Diesl engines.  I was talking to an installer about doing the Rangie and we got on to the subject.

It could cost about £3k to do a Sprinter sized van, much more on a tractor unit but the return in fuel economy is amazing, so much so that the literature from the manufacturers claims only 20% saving, fleet operators don't believe the 34% that has been achieved.  Basically propane is a catalyst that improves the burn of Derv thus releasing more power and a cleaner burn.  This can help older trucks meet the newer regulations for emissions too, and the engines last longer.

[Brian the Sn@il]

This is actually one of my favorite topics as I enjoy checking out alternative fuels.  First a few websites to peruse for good information:

http://journeytoforever.org/
http://www.biodieselnow.com/
http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/

These help understand the differences between Biodiesel, SVO (Straight Veg Oil) and WVO (Waste Veg Oil)

Basically though, if you run Biodiesel it's a refined product operationally near identical to dinodiesel.  You can make it yourself (maybe, depending on what your better half will let you get away with) or Stateside we can purchase it commercially.  It can be freely mixed with dinodiesel.

SVO nad WVO are different - basically because they are thicker and require a little work to make operate efficiently in the motor.

There's one guy her in VA running his 110 on WVO - he seems happy so far!

Let me know if you anyone wants more detailed info - I'll get carried away here too easily  :lol:

Great info mate :)

Can yuo post up Pros and COns for each product ? and which one is the best saving and the best for the engine ?

Cheers

Brian

[lrmike]

If we talk generically at first:

The absolute easiest product from a consumer standpoint and best for the motor is Biodiesel.  It burns cleaner, motor runs quieter, has a slightly higher cetane rating, keeps the fuel system clean, and is, of course, green.
The best part is that from the operator standpoint it is absolutley no different than conventional diesel as it is refined.
On the negative, straight Bio has a higher gel point than dino, (although if you mix when colder it off sets this).  Bio can attack some rubber components on older vehicles (US spec about 1990) causing them to swell and deteriorate.  A simple conversion of replacing hoses and such will prevent this.  Bio is a great cleaning agent, so be prepared for clogged filters for the first few thousand miles miles as the lines and tank are cleaned.

When I say SVO I'm talking about NEW veg oil, preferably rapeseed or similar quality low acid oil.  These will combust very nicely in a conventional diesel engine, again low emissions and cleaning qualities as bio.  The biggest hurdle here is the viscosity - SVO is thick, very thick at low temps.  In a cold engine the injection pump will have a really hard time and possibly suffer damage.  The solutions are to preheat the oil, either with a heat exchanger in the tank or in the engine bay.  This leads to it's own problems when it comes to getting started on a winter morning!  The easiest solution for most owners is to run 2 tanks - 1 dino or bio, the second SVO.  Start the vehicle on the dino, then switch over after it comes up to temp.  You have to remember to switch back again before you shut down to put dino back into the pump and injectors so it'll start again!

WVO - this is basically used fryer oil from the chip shop.  The basics are the same as SVO, but now we have to get it clean, and have a means of monitoring the quality.  Actually, chinese shops have some of the best waste oil.  Chip shops, per say, not so good as there is too much other 'stuff' in the oil.  The oil has to be filtered, down to about 10 microns, to work acceptably well.

I have heard of a gentleman who would dump WVO through a coffee filter directly into his tank, but there are WAY too many variables involved to risk an injection pump on it!

That's sort of the summary, in general.  Now the particulars:
SVO and WVO work best in IDI engines - that is the good old fashioned mechanical injection pump motors (Mercedes and VW are great).  Modern electronic injectors are a bit trickier - the tolerances are so tight that if the SVO runs too thick or carries too much water with it it can damage the injector.  Poor quality oil in this style of injector can also cause nozzle issues from 'polymerization' - the high injection pressures can actually form polymers from the oil at the nozzle.  Because of this many manufacturers now recommend blends of bio no higher than 5% in some cases (up to 20% for most).  Of course, manufacturers like to CYA a lot, too!

Told you not to get me started!

So, are there any Bio plants or distribution centers in the UK?

[lrmike]

Oh, and engine oil quality remains high with any veg oil, the combustion byproducts (sulpher, etc) are much lower so the engine oil has less to take clean out.  Fleets over here have used bio successfully for hundreds of thousands of miles and report lower engine wear and failures.  They are using quality biodiesel, not SVO.

[woody]

interesting read lrmike =D>  =D>  =D>
heres a few from this side of the pond
http://www.dieselveg.com/conversion%20info.htm
http://www.veggievan.org/
http://www.iwemalpg.com/Diesel_LPG.htm
http://www.bio-power.co.uk/svoconference/
http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm

as you can tell i am a fan
the only thing stopping me is the amount of tax you have to pay in this country      
it makes it not worth the hassle  

[Pike]

My 200 tdi runs cock on on 50% mix (derv and new oil) it runs cleaner and a bit faster and its cheaper,but if you want run on bio-diesel theres a firm in bradford that sells it at 78p a litre (tax included) and they deliver,the only thing is it drags all the s***t from the lines and tank into the filter so you have to change the filter more often for the first 1000 miles but after that its perfect,to buy bio diesel by the gallon its £3.58 (inc tax),to use a mix of derv and asdas finest it still works out at £3.58 a gallon(no tax paid) so use bio diesel its the same price!!!! try this www.rix.co.uk

[woody]

last time i checked
Morrisons £1:40 ish for 3 litres SVO

[Brian the Sn@il]

Great reading :)

Ive just e mailed RIX to see what a bulk order comes in at as we burn about £1000 of diesel per month in the vans.

[bezzabsa]

last time i checked
Morrisons £1:40 ish for 3 litres SVO

seen sunflower as low as 99p for 4 litres!!!
of course we would all pay the vat ;)

[Pike]

:(biglaugh):

[Xtremeteam]

last time i checked
Morrisons £1:40 ish for 3 litres SVO

seen sunflower as low as 99p for 4 litres!!!
of course we would all pay the vat ;)

lidls is 8.90 for 15 litres  :lol:

[LandRoger]

Its got to be TESCO,S@ aPound 5p =3lt Rapeseed oil,

[Mark2Disco]

did hear that costco sell a drum for about £10
think its 25 litre drum

[tim_aka_tim]

I've looked at this at length over the last few weeks, especially as a guy in Brum has had his Jeep, which is exactly the same as mine, converted to run on SVO by dieselveg in Wolverhampton.
However, the sums didn't add up, so I gave up on the idea. The tax loophole which classed SVO as biodiesel has now been closed by the revenue, which means 47.1p tax on every litre, and not 27.1p. You could just not bother about the tax, but there's a risk that others might shop you because a) they see you pouring crisp 'n' dry into the tank or b) your exhaust smells like a chip shop. In either case, they're not gonna be happy that you pay less for fuel than them.

[mike tilley]

No the tax loophole (if you can call it that) is still there. see this thread here...

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1011

...though you gonna have to jump through plenty of hoops to get the lower rate. And COSTO are currenlty selling 20ltrs for £8.95 I believe :)

[dew1911]

Hey Mike... How long you been a member here?

(Sorry, off topic I know.)

[Brian the Sn@il]

well RIX never got back too me :(