AuthorTopic: NERC Challenge part 2  (Read 1468 times)

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Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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NERC Challenge part 2
« on: May 26, 2006, 14:42:29 »
Well as some of you know i have been looking into the legality of this act and the closing of green lanes from the point of view of a disabled person, mainly looking at how it works with the DDA (Disability Discrimination Act).

I contacted the Disability Rights Commission and this is the response i got (the first is the email i sent to them):

Type of caller :
About : Other
    Details : Please specify...
Title : Mr
Name : Dan Hardy
Organisation: -
Email Address: danielbhardy1@aol.com
Address:
Postcode:
Telephone/Textphone:
How old are you? 26
Disability: I have difficulty with walking but dont use a wheelchair or
aid.  I am in reciept of higher rate DLA for mobility and am also a Blue
Badge Holder.
Disability lasting 12months: yes
What Happened: In the area i live (The Lake District) there used to be
provision for people with disabilities to see the area how they wanted to.
This was through the use of what are known as Green Lanes.  They are only
accessible by 4x4 vehicles (such as Land Rovers etc.....) as they are
generally very rocky and wouldnt not be able to drive a normal vehicle up
them.  Recently (1st May 2006) the LDNPA (Lake District National Park
Authority) closed most of these Green Lanes because the NERC act gave them
the right to.  Now because of this, i for one, disabled people are
extrememly limited to what they can see through the lakes.  Basically if
you cant walk then there is no other way to get to some of these points as
there is no way in hell a wheelchair could make it!

The problem is this is now happenning all over the country and thus is
discriminating against disabled people.  These routes were legally
driveable until recently.

The Ramblers Association lobbyed the MP's to get these lanes closed to
promote walking, and everyones general response to "But i cant walk it due
to disability" is TOUGH!

Please help or advise me of someone who can help.
Other Person's Details: Please Specify...
Date it Happened: 1st May 2006
Job Description: Unemployed
Done so far: Contacted yourself as i cant afford legal advice.
Trade Union Member: NO
Country: England
Email Reply: yes
Preferred Format : Telephone
Permission: YES
Find Out: Google Search
Ethnic origin: White
(ethnic) Other: -
Age group: 16 - 39

Their response:

Dear Mr Hardy

Thank you for your recent email to the Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
Helpline regarding the actions taken by the Lake District National Park
Authority.  I apologise for the delay in responding to your enquiry.  This
is due to the high level of demand for the Helpline's services.

The Helpline will give you initial advice and information. Anything we say
to you is not a statement of your legal position. This is because we cannot
speak to the other party involved to get a full picture of the incident. If
we think you will need further assistance, we will advise you on other
sources of help.  

There is a necessity to apply the Definition of Disability to an individual
and their impairment to ascertain if they have protection under the
Disability Discrimination Act (DDA).  Based on the information in your email
it seems as though this criterion has been fulfilled due to the adverse
effects of your impairment.  

It is likely that a court would hold that Section 19 DDA applies to local
and highway authorities in the management and upkeep of footpaths, cycle
ways, towpaths etc.  This means, of course, that, it is more likely than not
that the duty under Section 21(2), in force in October 2004, applies to
highway authorities in the provision of, maintenance of and access to
highways and to all other 'providers' (owners/managers) of roads, footpaths
etc to which the public have access.  

A failure to comply with duty would be actionable in the County Court under
Section 19 DDA.

Section 59(1) of the DDA provides that 'nothing in this Act makes unlawful
any act done
(a) in pursuance of any enactment; or
(b) in pursuance of any instrument made by a Minister of the Crown under any
enactment; or
(c) to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by a Minister of the
Crown (whether before or after the passing of this Act) by virtue of any
enactment.'  

Case law under the equivalent provisions of the Race Relations Act (Section
41) makes it clear that this exemption is to be narrowly read.   The
exemption is confined to acts done in the necessary performance of an
express obligation contained in the instrument under consideration and do
not include acts done in the exercise of a power or discretion conferred by
the instrument (Hampson v Department of Education and Science [1990] IRLR
302 HL).  

Thus it is of limited impact and likely to be of very limited impact indeed
(if any) to the issues raised in your email.   It would not excuse or
provide a defence to an authority or other provider who opts to impose
certain restrictions, even if that choice is made pursuant to a general
statutory duty to maintain a highway or similar.

The DDA is likely to offer the most convenient and simplest route to
challenging inaccessible paths, highways etc.  Claims may arise in respect
of particular highways, footpaths etc under the Highways Act 1980 and the
Human Rights Act 1998 but any such claims are untested and are likely to be
more problematic.

The issue you describe in your email may constitute disability
discrimination by the service provider, you should send a letter, seeking
justification for their actions, explaining what your complaint is and why
you feel what has happened is related to your disability.  

You should allow the service provider 2 weeks to respond.  If there is no
response or if that which you receive is unsatisfactory, come back to the
Helpline for further advice.  

It is important to note that there is a strict time limit of 6 months, less
1 day, from the incident date that applies when taking a case under Part 3
of the DDA.  

In addition, you should be aware that the DRC require a minimum of 12 weeks
prior to the limitation date if we are to consider passing details of a case
to our Conciliation Management Unit (CMU).  

Please also be aware that there is no guarantee that your case will be
referred to the CMU for consideration, and that referral to the CMU does not
constitute a guarantee of assistance.  

You may need further assistance to progress this issue, such as
representation or help filling in forms.  We can give you details of
organisations that may be able to assist you, but as an initial measure you
should check whether your household insurance may provide funding for legal
issues.  

Please be advised that if you are currently receiving advice from a lawyer
the DRC will be unable to advise you on the issue, as we would not wish to
give conflicting advice.  

Please note that the DRC can provide publications in alternative formats,
i.e., Braille, audio, diskette, etc; and ethnic languages. To order or view
a DRC publication please contact the Helpline or order online using this
link:
http://www.drc-gb.org/publicationsandreports/publications.asp

I hope this information is useful, however, please do not hesitate to
contact the Helpline once again if you have any further questions or queries
quoting your reference number above.

Kind Regards,
Chris Goodhand
Advisor
DRC Helpline
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline BrumLee

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2006, 16:17:24 »
It'll be interesting to hear what the LDNPA have to say their reason for closure is. Picture it, "a large group of able bodied people (RA) demanded their closure through lobbying Parliment"  :shock:

Hope you make them scratch their dumplings Dan, they'll need to be very careful of their answer  :wink: Someone I know who works in the Employment Tribunal once said there's two organisations you never mess with, that's the Commission for Racial Equality and the Disability Rights Commission. Get it wrong with them and the concequences are long-lasting.

Seems you have someone on your side, so keep the ball rolling  8)
Lee from Brum

Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2006, 16:38:03 »
I shall be, once i have read the email a few times and understand it a bit better i am going to write the letter to the LDNPA and then move forwards hopefully, with them on your side there is legal stuff they have access to as well, but as they said, there is precedent set yet as no-one has legally challenged the NERC bill.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline Bob696

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2006, 16:38:57 »
The downside is that I beleive the Disability Rights Commission were contacted by the goverment about NERC prior to it being introduced to parliment and they raised no objections.
"A wise man has something to say a fool has to say something"
"Think of it as evolution in action" and yes, I do know that I can't spell thank you.
200TDi 90  "Daisy" A.K.A. "Baby"
3.5L V8 110 "Sally". The camper van with an attitude problem.

LABOUR
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Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2006, 16:56:25 »
I know, but lets face it, as the main groups concerned and affected (4x4 owners and drivers) what kind of a resistance did we put up?  None of the major organisations who represent us put much into it, otherwise we wouldnt be where we are now.  The problem is the RA are much more organised in getting what they want as they have been doing it for a much longer time and have learnt from their mistakes.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline JeepRikk

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2006, 12:06:02 »
I emailed my MP a while back and got a letter saying he would take it further and let me know.
Today I got a letter back from him with one from Barry Gardiner MP minister of biodiversity,landscape and rural affairs.
I'll scan the pages in and pop them on my site for people to look at but it basicly says, it's done and defra are keen to increase access to area's already available.
Which to me means things like forests/country parks...woopee do I can now get to the carpark easier so I can look at the trees from there.

I'm going to reply and make it bluntly obvious that it's not enough.

edit..
here is the letter if you want to read,

http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/page1.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/page2.jpg
http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/page3.jpg

      ..........Rikk

Offline Eeyore

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2006, 23:32:28 »
Quote from: "Disco200TDiDan"
I know, but lets face it, as the main groups concerned and affected (4x4 owners and drivers) what kind of a resistance did we put up?  None of the major organisations who represent us put much into it, otherwise we wouldnt be where we are now.


To answer your question; many people trying to defend the rights of MPV users in these 'organisations', were putting in forty plus hours a week on top of working for a living.

They would probably ask another question. What did you do at the time?  :wink:

They would also probably ask - how much worse could it have been if they hadn't put that effort in?  :shock:

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore
Flower: '95 Defender 110 Hard Top. Donkey Power :D

Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2006, 23:46:07 »
Fair comment eeyore, where was the work, where did we see it?  There was nothing i could do from this angle until the bill was in force.  

Many people offered to do such things as blockades, protests etc..... but then the usual people turned round and said it was pointless.

What we need to do now is get our voice heard.  Its not been heard yet, even the bit that Thrasher did has been forgotten.  What we need is more of that kind of stuff.  We need to have our cause on the news.  We do need to get noticed and in order to do that there needs to be a hierachy and a good structure.  There is none of that currently cos no-one is working together.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline discograham

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2006, 00:09:31 »
If the only way ahead is to draw attention through direct action.. which I do believe it has now come to.. then lets do it...  If one gets rollercoastered when doing things properly then lets have some improper behavior and rattle a few cages.... and before anyone says that would show the wrong image..fine.. what do you want to do ? keep the nice decent image but lose out all around.. ? :shock:
*The grave of Karl Marx is just another communist plot*
*Racial prejudice is a pigment of the imagination*
*Last Tuesdays meeting of the apathy society has just been cancelled*

HORNET
Disco 300tdi ES, Rebel steering guard, QT diff guards, QT cones, Pro-comp ES9000 shocks, 2" lift, Extended stops,  Safari snorkel, 33/12.50/15 Khumo's, Greenway light bar, Rock and tree sliders, nice new door seals and an empty wallet.

MKMC

www.crag-uk.org

www.northants-green-lane.co.uk

www.northants4x4.com

Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2006, 00:28:57 »
Well what we need is some serious action on our part, but within the laws of the land.  Last i checked having a demonstration was still legal.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline discograham

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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2006, 03:36:47 »
I know there will be a fair few who will argue that direct action is not the way to go.. their arguements will, I'm sure, be fair and valid..
But once again I feel that worrying about our public image will do no good if we lose out.. as we will.. and then there won't be any need to worry about the public image as noone will be on the lanes any more anyway...
If we don't make ourselves heard now then everything is lost...
And that means high profile dissruption...
Someone .... convince me that I'm just a voice in the wilderness talking out of my rear...
But I don't believe that I am...
*The grave of Karl Marx is just another communist plot*
*Racial prejudice is a pigment of the imagination*
*Last Tuesdays meeting of the apathy society has just been cancelled*

HORNET
Disco 300tdi ES, Rebel steering guard, QT diff guards, QT cones, Pro-comp ES9000 shocks, 2" lift, Extended stops,  Safari snorkel, 33/12.50/15 Khumo's, Greenway light bar, Rock and tree sliders, nice new door seals and an empty wallet.

MKMC

www.crag-uk.org

www.northants-green-lane.co.uk

www.northants4x4.com

Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2006, 13:38:51 »
Direct action is all thats left.  What we need to do is get our voice in the press.  Notice how well the RA get their voice in the press.  Someone said to me its because we dont have enough people to raise a voice.  I think we do.  But what we need is someone, or some group to take charge and organise things, get organised protests going.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline discograham

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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2006, 00:34:50 »
Not a lot of comments about the idea of direct action then.... :(
Bit of a non starter with just two of us Dan..... :shock:
I guess its the old story.. afterwards everyone will say "ide have done something..." ... yeah... heard it all before....
*The grave of Karl Marx is just another communist plot*
*Racial prejudice is a pigment of the imagination*
*Last Tuesdays meeting of the apathy society has just been cancelled*

HORNET
Disco 300tdi ES, Rebel steering guard, QT diff guards, QT cones, Pro-comp ES9000 shocks, 2" lift, Extended stops,  Safari snorkel, 33/12.50/15 Khumo's, Greenway light bar, Rock and tree sliders, nice new door seals and an empty wallet.

MKMC

www.crag-uk.org

www.northants-green-lane.co.uk

www.northants4x4.com

Offline Rangie3.0LtrDan

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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2006, 01:06:33 »
See now what i think about here when i think of direct action is the scheduled "go slow" they had on the motorways during the fuel protests.  They drew alot of attention to the cause.  Maybe thats what we need.  A rolling protest.
The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

1982 Range Rover 3.0Ltr Turbo Diesel - Redun



Offline Bob696

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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 06:12:22 »
Quote
Not a lot of comments about the idea of direct action then


I have no problem with direct action, the Motorcycle action Group have been using it effectivly for years BUT they do it before legislation even gets started.

NERC is here and the only way forward is the legal route IMHO. You may be better off putting the cost of fuel you may have earmarked for this protest into either CRAG or glass or wait for someone to mount a legal challange and sending them the money.
"A wise man has something to say a fool has to say something"
"Think of it as evolution in action" and yes, I do know that I can't spell thank you.
200TDi 90  "Daisy" A.K.A. "Baby"
3.5L V8 110 "Sally". The camper van with an attitude problem.

LABOUR
Lying Arrogant Blair Oppressors of UK Rights

Offline Eeyore

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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2006, 07:50:25 »
Quote from: "discograham"
... yeah... heard it all before....


Yep, so have we; which is probably why we've mostly ignored it.  :wink:

cheers
 8)
Eeyore
Flower: '95 Defender 110 Hard Top. Donkey Power :D

Offline JeepRikk

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NERC Challenge part 2
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2006, 09:28:41 »
May be worthwhile a few of us disabled drivers doing the same route together and when cought take it to the press.
Woulnd't take much to plead we had no idea of his nerc thing and it's an outrage etc...

I've posted on a few disabled forums/sites and not got a single reply, they seem more interested in a few people parking in disabled bays in tesco than anything that really affects their rights.

I'm more than happy to join in with anything, the chances of getting a lot of people together for any kind of mass protest of all 4x4 users I don't think will happen. But a few people fighting it from the disabled rights persective we can do.

Even if we only win for disabled people all it means is anyone going out needs a disabled person or two in the convoy, so start buttering us up ;)

 






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