Lifted Disco query

[simondarby]

I have recently fitted a 2" lift to my 95 300Tdi Disco.  One of the main reasons for fitting this is because I often have a car full of people (5-6), several kayaks on the roof (2-3) and associated gear such as paddles, wet suits, bouyancy aids etc on board.

Before I fitted the lift the car would bottom out at the rear when I drove over the speed bumps in my road.  This was not unexpected as I believe the suspension was original and therefore rather tired and saggy (aren't we all?).  Indeed when you looked at the truck from outside when it was loaded, it was sat down at the back, confirming that the suspension was saggy.

So I took the plunge and fitted Pro Comp ES9000 dampers which are 2" longer than standard.  I also fitted extended bump stops and Britpart yellow springs which are one down from maximum heavy duty as the vendor I got the bits from said that I would be shaken to bits if I drove the truck with the stiffest springs when it was unloaded, which is most of the time.  This seemed fair enough to me as I didn't want to upset my wife and family by making the car uncomfortable to drive or be driven in.

However, when I load the truck up in a similiar fashion to before the lift and drive over the speed bumps in my road at anything more than a very slow pace it still bottoms out.  If you look at the vehicle from outside though, it is not sat down at the back anymore, but still looks lifted and level. I have talked to the vendor who is happy to let me try the stiffer springs if I want.

What troubles me is that next year I am driving the truck to Iceland for 3 weeks and I want to make sure any modifications I make now are going to be right for that trip.

I know this is a very subjective subject, but I would really appreciate your thoughts and opinions.

Cheers,

Si

[thermidorthelobster]

When you say it bottoms out, does it hit the bump stops or is a tyre rubbing somewhere?

[Tyke]

fitted Pro Comp ES9000 dampers which are 2" longer than standard. I also fitted extended bump stops

It sounds like you have probably negated the advantage of fitting taller springs by putting extended bump stops on. The extra shock length applies to the available 'droop' at the axle and will do nothing for the upward travel.

Check the clearance of the axle from the extended stop and compare with standard. Some of the stops I've seen actually end up with less clearance than standard. Best to set the axles up without springs then compress shocks to optimum position whilst still maintaining clearance for the tyres. Measure up for the stops, re-fit springs and arrange stop height to sit as measured.

Lots of messing about there . . . . but hey . . . that always comes with modifications  


BTW - I didn't need extended stops, with my lift. untill I put 32" tyres in.

[Tyke]

oops !!!

[Budgie]

If it's bottoming out on the extended bump stops and you havn't increased the tyre size then you should be fine with the standard dump stops.
The extended ones are normally only fitted to stop larger diameter tyres from hitting the inside of the wheel arches.

Another route you could go is double rear shocks. I did this on mine for the same reason, I have 33" tyres, +3" lift & extended bumpstops, it was bottoming out on thr ruff stuff. I got a double rear shocker kit from Wizard on here, or you can go to his website. This has stiffened up the rear end, allowed me to remove the anti roll bar and isn't too bad on the road unloaded but you can alway just remove one set of shocks for normal driving if yo want too.  

I've done a "how too" in the workshop section of the site for fitting the kit, see here: http://members.mud-club.com/library/?articleid=21

[Eeyore]

Okay, extended bump stops. The longer the shock, the longer the top tube. Without extending the bump stop you're more likely to bottom the shock out than with a standard length shock - which isn't good.  Therefore with with any extension of shock (without relocating the top mount) extended mounts are advisable. Also longer springs usually have more coils. trying to pack more coils into the same compressed length often results in the coils coming into contact with each other, often violently. This doesn't do 'em much good. Extended mounts can limit coil binding thereby improving the life of your spring.

For hard use overland in a Disco, I'd seriously consider a set of uprated springs. Not just longer, but stiffer. Unloaded, this may make the car feel a little stiff (some folk, meself included prefer this), but over rough terrain you'll really appreciate the difference.

HTH
Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[Tyke]

The longer the shock, the longer the top tube. Without extending the bump stop you're more likely to bottom the shock out than with a standard length shock - which isn't good

But surely the closed position remains the same with extended shocks, unless you shift the mounts up or down. The shock extension allows the axle to drop more, the spring extension lifts the chassis to compensate. Unless the mounts are raised, extended shocks cannot allow extra travel upwards. You are limited in upward travel by the shocker/spring mount positions. Therefore the bump height will remain the same for a given set of suspension components/tyres. The extended length, 'droop', will however increase, which in turn will 'flip' over the anti-roll linkages or dislocate the rear springs if the roll bars are removed.


Best to set everything up on the ramps, then you can be sure it will all work in harmony at the optimum settings . . . just a lot of messing about to do it.

[Mace]

I've 235/85/16's on my disco with a 1.5" lift and the tyres scrape the rear metal inner wheel arch that extends to the mud flap BEFORE it hits the bump stop.

Is this what you're experiencing ?

[Eeyore]

But surely the closed position remains the same with extended shocks, unless you shift the mounts up or down. .

I can see where you're coming from, but the closed length of a +2" shock is longer than a standard, hence they're more likely to bottom out using standard mounts and stops.

The ramp idea is good 'un BTW, just bear in mind that the dynamic behavioru of the suspension will be slightly different than under a static load - but you should still be able to get somewhere close.

HTH

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[way2deep]

i reckon you should just have fitted heavy duty standard hieght springs,that's what i am running at the moment (see my thread lift kit or handling)just cos you lift the disco ,it don't stiffen it ,far from it ,which was the result you were after..sorry mate i just think you went for the wrong items to cure the problem

[simondarby]

When I fitted the dampers and springs, it was obvious that the new shocks would be fully compressed before the axle hit the bump stops, which is why I fitted the extended bump stops.  But I have a feeling they may be too "extended" if you know what I mean...

It's not the tyres that hit, it's definitely the axle on stops...  or maybe the spring coils hitting each other... hadn't thought of that.

I might give the stiffer springs a go and see what they behave like.

Si

[Tyke]

I can see where you're coming from, but the closed length of a +2" shock is longer than a standard, hence they're more likely to bottom out using standard mounts and stops.

Yeah, I know what you are saying and maybe I've made a few assumptions that I should have explained more fully. Agreed that with the longer tubes they can bottom out but I was thinking in terms of a moderate lift and from experience they don't normally cause a problem up to +2" with standard stops. Safety and piece of mind would suggest fitting longer stops however, just in case.

But I have a feeling they may be too "extended" if you know what I mean...

To be sure, measure the stops and compare with standard ones. If you have +2" shocks, then in theory the stops should be +2" over standard and if oversize tyres are fitted they should also be plus half the difference between standard tyre diameter and new tyre diameter. Cut them to size to suit the new components and all should clear as per standard.

In hindsight, I would extend the stops but not to the extent of some of the typical 'off the shelf' bolt-on stops which are sometimes a bit on the tall side. Possibly causing you to comment that they look 'too extended'. Very good for more 'extreme' set-ups but they will limit upward travel on what is only a moderate lift of an inch or two. Measuring everything up is the only safe way to determine what fits with what.


Unfortunately, as has been suggested earlier, maybe the stiffer springs/standard shocks would have been a simpler solution to your problem. At least if you now fit stiffer springs you will also have the off-road benifits of the extended travel, although the road ride will no doubt feel a little more harsh. I can live with that, personaly, but we all have our own preferences.

[Range Rover Blues]

Do you have any idea how heavy the car is when fully loaded? it may be you have overloaded it and this is bad, it's also illegal.  I understand Dsicos can carry more than a RRC (funny as they are the same thing) but with my Rangie loaded up ti it's max weight I have no problems bottoming out, even driven hard off-road, it's always my teeth that suffer first :?

[simondarby]

I can't believe the vehicle is overloaded..  6 people, 3 plastic kayaks and paddling gear isn't going to overload a Land Rover of any description.  I would be surprised if that overloaded a regular family estate/people carrier.

[simondarby]

Had the 200Kg load springs fitted today.  What a difference...

Much firmer ride, sits slightly higher still at the back as well.  The ride is not too harsh which is why I was a little hesitant about going for such stiff springs but it handles really nicely.  We shall see what it does when I load it up this weekend to go paddling.

I was interested to see that the springs that were removed (100Kg) which had only been on since mid May showed obvious signs of the coils at the bottom end hitting each other. I'm sure they shouldn't have been doing that...

[Range Rover Blues]

6 people, adults by any chance? that's best part of 550 kg then, plus all your gear and your going to have most of that over the back axle.  Check your handbook for the payload on your car.

[simondarby]

Book says:

Max front axle weight - 1200Kg
Max rear axle weight - 1650Kg
Gross vehicle weight - 2720Kg

EEC Kerb weight (Unladen weight + full fuel tank + 75kg driver)
Front axle - 1040Kg
Rear axle - 1060Kg
Total - 2100kg

So, I think(?) the maths is this:

(Taking Range Rover blues estimate of people weight as 550Kg - 75Kg for driver =475Kg)

Kerb weight 2100Kg + people weight 475Kg + 3x18Kg (boats) + 10Kg equipment = 2639Kg.

That means I am approximately 81Kgs under the maximum load for my truck, and that rating is for a vehicle with stock suspension.

I honestly believe that the first set of rear springs I had just weren't stiff/strong enough for the task. I would say I thought they were a bit duff actually, especially comparing them to the newer ones I have now.

Anyway, I am very happy with these new springs and now I know they don't bottom out over speed bumps too as I collected my son from Scout camp this morning with all his gear and 3 of his mates and we had a very comfy ride home with no drama or nasty bumps when going over uneven ground.

Just how a Land Rover should be...