AuthorTopic: vibration problem  (Read 6948 times)

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Offline denviks

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vibration problem
« on: July 17, 2006, 19:40:52 »
hi all. i really need some advice. i have had a vibration problem on my 200tdi disco for quite a while now. it sort of feels like its vibrating the whole truck ie you cant really feel it through the steering. i have changed the uj's on the front prop, and i have just changed the front bearing on the output shaft on the transfere box. but the vibration is still there  :evil:
oh and i have checked all levels.....and all wheels and tyres have been eliminated


any ideas what else i can check.?????

im lost now
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline Colin 009

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vibration problem
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2006, 20:07:17 »
stop letting the kids jump around in the back. :wink:  :lol:  :lol:
Cheers.
Colin,
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Offline Doodlebug

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Re: vibration problem
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2006, 21:55:28 »
Quote from: "denviks"
hi all. i really need some advice. i have had a vibration problem on my 200tdi disco for quite a while now. it sort of feels like its vibrating the whole truck ie you cant really feel it through the steering. i have changed the uj's on the front prop, and i have just changed the front bearing on the output shaft on the transfere box. but the vibration is still there  :evil:
oh and i have checked all levels.....and all wheels and tyres have been eliminated


any ideas what else i can check.?????

im lost now


denviks wrote:
hi all. i really need some advice. i have had a vibration problem on my 200tdi disco for quite a while now. it sort of feels like its vibrating the whole truck ie you cant really feel it through the steering. i have changed the uj's on the front prop, and i have just changed the front bearing on the output shaft on the transfere box. but the vibration is still there  
oh and i have checked all levels.....and all wheels and tyres have been eliminated


any ideas what else i can check.?????

im lost now

Den, I've got a similar problem but havent eliminated the rims & tyres the disco vibrates but I also get it through the steering. I'm not sure if thats because Ive got HD steering & drag rods & have therefore removed the damper & the harmonic. Have you had your props checked for balance as this can have a dramatic effect. The UJ's can be ok but the prop can be out of balance. (shouldnt we be having this discussion somewhere else like another mutual forum!)

Offline dazzawhipple

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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 09:34:25 »
Check all the ball joints, bushes etc but If you have a spare prop put that on

Mud on the inside of the rims

Darren
G'Day
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Offline beast5680

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vibration problem
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 21:22:04 »
are the propshafts in phase? if i remember they need to be having the yokes at either end in the same position, we get this on agricultural stuff if the props arent aligned they can cause a vibration thats transmitted up the prop
Neal

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Offline Tyke

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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 22:47:27 »
Good thinking Beast. That would be speed related though and you would notice it changing as you worked the motor. Worth a check anyway.


Den . . . is the vibration constant or related to engine speed or road speed?


Other quick check could be engine/tranny mounts.
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Offline denviks

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vibration problem
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 23:44:25 »
good thinking about the props mate.......i will check that in the morning  :wink:

the vibration is speed related. doesnt matter what the rev counter is doing it always becomes noticable at about 60.   :?
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline rangerider

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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006, 00:40:59 »
Bit in this months LRO that i picked up today, similar problem in some respects and the gurus there say it could be swivel bearings.
Hela - Disco 200TDi, Still stock for now but watch this space.......
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Offline denviks

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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 08:08:20 »
but would they be picked up on an mot? it passed its mot last weeke with flying colours. what ever the cause of this vibration is , it is on nothing that would fail an mot  :(  :(  :(
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline dazzawhipple

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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006, 10:16:30 »
To pass a mot wheel bearings ball joint should be okay


Take the front prop of shove it in diff lock and take for short run ......if no vibration its your Prop
G'Day
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Offline Range Rover Blues

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vibration problem
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2006, 13:41:19 »
Or at least you'd know which end it was coming from.  It could be something stupid like a collapsed CV support bearing, buckled wheel, mud in the rim, weak spot in the tyres, missing prop bolts, even a missing grease nipple.

Are you sure it's not a missfire in the engine?
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Offline denviks

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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2006, 11:13:06 »
cheers for the sudgestions guys..... i have rebuilt both props now.... :D ..... it was one of the first things i did. i have replaced all the bolts on the props too. replaced the front out put bearing on the transfere box ( loads of fun ) ....

the front nearside does feel a little weird while driving now. i cant describe it to be honest but it doesnt feel quite as tight as the offside while driving. when you hit a bump it gives you a little knock back.....just a tiny one. so i now know its coming from fron t nearside.

so where are the cv support bearings hiding then?  :wink:

checked all the other bits so its got to be something that i havent checked yet.

slowly loosing the will to live as its been vibrating for 6 months now  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline Range Rover Blues

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vibration problem
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2006, 18:00:00 »
Ok so time to check the wheel bearings.  The CV support bearing is inside the stub axle, oddly enough around the end of the CV joint.  Depending on what type of axles you have there are a variety of bearing types, 2 main ones on Disco and RRC.  The roller bearings used on ABS axles tend to be the ones that colapse but on high mileage non-abd units the bronze bush bearing can wear away especially if the swivel oil has leaked away.
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Offline denviks

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vibration problem
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2006, 00:58:55 »
Quote from: "Range Rover Blues"
Ok so time to check the wheel bearings.  The CV support bearing is inside the stub axle, oddly enough around the end of the CV joint.  Depending on what type of axles you have there are a variety of bearing types, 2 main ones on Disco and RRC.  The roller bearings used on ABS axles tend to be the ones that colapse but on high mileage non-abd units the bronze bush bearing can wear away especially if the swivel oil has leaked away.


wheel bearings checked.......only replaced them 3000 miles ago... :wink:  i will have a look see for the cv support bearing and see what i can find.............


is there a way to tell that is no good?   i know with my truck things that have gone in the past dont tend to stand out a mile  :wink:

just wanna say a massive thanks for all the advice so far guys ... :D  :D  :D
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline gtomo2

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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2006, 07:58:56 »
May sound mad but check your pully. as mine is slighty warped and it shakes the whole car. but you can only see the pully wobble when the engine is running. havent a clue how it got warped and all bolts are tight on it.
Mr Graeme Thomas (tomo)
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Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2006, 03:08:55 »
If you've got the ABS axle and have the roller bearings on the CV it's easy, they will collapse.  Some had a solid bronze bush-bearing but I think that was Defender.

On the RRC without ABS you will find either a solid bronze bush or a laminted one on later models with dimples in the surface to hold oil It the cv is very loose in this it's toast but TBH it has to wear a lot, unless it's broken up.  There is also a bronze bush inside the swivel to axle flange to support the half shaft on non-ABS axles, check this too.

Wheel bearings, I know you swapped them but just check they havn't crept as you were driving.  Did you fit branded ones? hong-kong fuey ones don't have such a good reputation for longevity.
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Offline denviks

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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2006, 08:47:54 »
Quote from: "Range Rover Blues"
If you've got the ABS axle and have the roller bearings on the CV it's easy, they will collapse.  Some had a solid bronze bush-bearing but I think that was Defender.

On the RRC without ABS you will find either a solid bronze bush or a laminted one on later models with dimples in the surface to hold oil It the cv is very loose in this it's toast but TBH it has to wear a lot, unless it's broken up.  There is also a bronze bush inside the swivel to axle flange to support the half shaft on non-ABS axles, check this too.

Wheel bearings, I know you swapped them but just check they havn't crept as you were driving.  Did you fit branded ones? hong-kong fuey ones don't have such a good reputation for longevity.


cheers mate  :wink: ...mines the 200 tdi on a k plate so i would assume that its the older stuff fitted....... i definatly dont have the posh ABS  :lol:  :lol: ...i will have a look as soon as i get a chance.....all very good ideas that i havent checked yet. :wink: ....the bearings i fitted were quality ones. although i cant remember the name now for the life of me  :roll: ....looks like im gonna get covered in one shot again  :D  :D

i do need to get to the bottom of this as its slowly shaking all my rust out  :D  :D ....
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline snezza69

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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2006, 11:11:03 »
Dennis, can you tell me a little more about the symptoms as I recently broke down in France with very similar problems however my vibration got so bad that I had to stop as it didn't feel safe with a 4 Yr old in the back.

A French mechanic has checked the vehicle and simply says there is no problem and I can collect it!

I am a little concerned as I don't want to drive the 900 miles home if it a serious problem.

Have you driven it without the front prop as mentioned earlier?
Snezza69

I wish this project would just hurry up and finish!

But I don't think it will if I keep making simple mistakes

Offline wizard

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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2006, 12:00:02 »
I had a similar problem (haven't we all) i would have put money on it being a wheel bearing, infact i changed  both front sets twice.

Each front hub has 5 bearings.
two  "wheel bearings, a needle roller bearing that sits between the two wheel bearings, Item 16 in the pic, and two swivel hub bearings (top & bottom)



I found that the cause of my very bad vibration was the bush on the panhard rod. Take the panhard rod off and check the bush and bolts.



regards
wizard :twisted:

Offline blade

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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2006, 12:26:55 »
Quote
May sound mad but check your pully. as mine is slighty warped and it shakes the whole car. but you can only see the pully wobble when the engine is running. havent a clue how it got warped and all bolts are tight on it.




are you sure the keyways not broke cause mine just has with similar symptoms resulting in knackered damper and trying to remove invisable keyway from crank

Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2006, 15:53:08 »
I lookes at a 200TDi without ABS today myself.  Unfortunately the picture Wizard posted is the ABS type (Ithink also fitted to 300 TDI) so the bearing item 16 is the CV bush I was on about but there is another bush on the halfshaft (becasue the CV joint is not part of the drive member on non-ABs axles).  Essentially it's a RRC axle you should have, so the CV bearings will be solid types.  Check for excessive wear or collapse, CV failure and half shaft damage.

Check the diff for backlash too whilst you're under there.
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Offline snezza69

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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2006, 21:44:36 »
Quote from: "Range Rover Blues"


Check the diff for backlash too whilst you're under there.


What do you mean by backlash?
Snezza69

I wish this project would just hurry up and finish!

But I don't think it will if I keep making simple mistakes

Offline denviks

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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2006, 22:46:49 »
cheers so far guys.you are giving me sooo much to look for..... i have a new development today. it might be related but there again who knows  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: ...while out having a gentle play i did notice a clonk ( very quite ) over a few bumps.....now it does sound like a bush starting to go  :shock: .... this is the first time ive heard it.now all the shocks are new. so that takes them out of the way. so could this be the bush on the panard ???

seems like a coincedence  :wink:


snezza mate..... the vibrations get really bad in mine if i put the boot down. i have not long come back from scotland ( a 2000+ mile round trip ) and had the vibration all the way. just at 60 it was livable so stuck to that  :wink: . i cant say for definate that yours would be fine though ......will they recover you again if it goes???
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2006, 23:25:14 »
Hang on, it vibrates worse under power? have you got a missfire? perhaps an air leak that only shows up under load, that could do it.  Try it in both 5th and 4th just to be sure it's not got anything to do with the engine.  I have a vibration on Blue that comes on at 50 ish but only in 5th, when the engine and propshaft speeds are similar.  Only came on when I swapped the axles and engine so it's not the 'box, I think it's a little imbalance in both axle and a misfire that I havn't cured yet (valve going I think).

that's also why I asked about the backlash, if there is a lot of f4ree play in the diff input shaft or any sideways play at all.

Just remind me, you are sure it's not a UJ going aren't you? and have you considered the vibrationmay actualy be at the back end? (comes up through the propshaft and ofetn hard to distinguish between front/rear).
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Chuggaboom, 1995 Range Rover Classic
1995 Range Rover Classic Vogue LSE with 5 big sticks of Blackpool rock under the bonnet.

Offline denviks

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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2006, 08:16:16 »
Quote from: "Range Rover Blues"
Hang on, it vibrates worse under power? have you got a missfire? perhaps an air leak that only shows up under load, that could do it.  Try it in both 5th and 4th just to be sure it's not got anything to do with the engine.  I have a vibration on Blue that comes on at 50 ish but only in 5th, when the engine and propshaft speeds are similar.  Only came on when I swapped the axles and engine so it's not the 'box, I think it's a little imbalance in both axle and a misfire that I havn't cured yet (valve going I think).

that's also why I asked about the backlash, if there is a lot of f4ree play in the diff input shaft or any sideways play at all.

Just remind me, you are sure it's not a UJ going aren't you? and have you considered the vibrationmay actualy be at the back end? (comes up through the propshaft and ofetn hard to distinguish between front/rear).


sorry...i meant that when i put my boot down as in travel at more than 55 mph  :oops:  :oops:
sorry. but still more good things to look at. im going to be under the truck today to see what i can see.  :wink:
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline snezza69

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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2006, 08:33:59 »
Quote from: Range Rover Blues
Hang on, it vibrates worse under power? quote]

The wierd thing with mine was the vibration starts at 60 (only in 5th), gets really bad to 80, but at 80 it calms  (a window of about 3 MPH).  If I drop the clutch and stick it in Neutral at 75 when the vibration is near its worst, the vibration stays there.  If I get to 75mph and just take my foor off the accelerator, the vibration goes completely.

I have noticed that if I drice the thing for more than a few hours, the clutch gets spongey and after a full days driving it will only grind into reverse, however the following day once cooled down, it is back to normal.  I think this is a different fault so will put in another thread for this one!
Snezza69

I wish this project would just hurry up and finish!

But I don't think it will if I keep making simple mistakes

Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2006, 01:39:27 »
The thing with just cruising is that everything moves at the same speed but nothing is under load.  My diff was like that for about 2 minutes before I left bits of it on the A1.
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Offline denviks

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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2006, 15:39:39 »
havin rebuilt both front swivels now with all new parts i still have the vibration. it doesnt seem to have made a difference. i have also now rebuilt the rear hubs with new seals and bearings as well just to iliminate them.....


im slowly loosing the will to live. i am going to have the tracking checked tomorrow.......it does feel like its coming from the front........i just dont know what else to try now
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

Offline snezza69

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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2006, 16:34:02 »
As it turns out my front prop was shot and it was'nt safe to drive (got recovered OK).

Just a thought, not sure if this has been mentioned or not, have you checked the bearing on the output shaft from the front dif?
Snezza69

I wish this project would just hurry up and finish!

But I don't think it will if I keep making simple mistakes

Offline denviks

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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2006, 17:24:40 »
Quote from: "snezza69"
As it turns out my front prop was shot and it was'nt safe to drive (got recovered OK).

Just a thought, not sure if this has been mentioned or not, have you checked the bearing on the output shaft from the front dif?


glad you found yours mate  :D  :D  :D  :D


is that the bearings in the end of the sub axle? i have changed every bearing in the hub asembly now....... nothing left to change but the cv joints.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll: and still it persists....

think its time to go on to suspension bushes next ....or go through the steering and work my way up to the steering box..... :(  :(  :(
cheers
dennis
more moves than a dad in a disco!!!!!!!!!!


im always @ www.plcuk.co.uk

 






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