HGV drivers

[bezzabsa]

has anyone sen the proposal for us hgv drivers to not only have a medical every 5 years - but also to be retested at the same time as well???
think this sucks big time , as who is supposed to pay for the training??

[Edge]

Bezza, they shouldn't victimise truckers.... they should make All of us take a retest every 5 years. After all.... the majority of truckers have been driving a long time and are obviously safer drivers than us who dont drive for a living.

Retest every 5 yrs for car drivers would mean, lots of fails=empty roads= pure bliss .

[V8MoneyPit]

Bezza, they shouldn't victimise truckers.... they should make All of us take a retest every 5 years. After all.... the majority of truckers have been driving a long time and are obviously safer drivers than us who dont drive for a living.

Retest every 5 yrs for car drivers would mean, lots of fails=empty roads= pure bliss .

 =D>  =D>  =D>

Quite right. I've maintained this for years. Drivers blame the road, other drivers, the sun, the weather..... anything but themselves for poor driving. Training is the *only* thing that will make our roads a safer place. But it applies to all road users, not any one group.

[discograham]

It would help if everyone was subjected to a re test every five years... but is this really nescessary ? How about everyone involved in an incident in stead ? And here is a question... I have been told that if you come into this country you may drive for a year on the license issued by your country of origin.. but if you leave the U.K even for one day during that year then upon your return your year starts again... in other words a quick day trip to france and you've got another year before you have to take a U.K test...
What standard is the driving test in Somalia, Nigeria, The Sudan, etc.. or India, Pakistan, Iran, .. or Poland etc.... surely that is an issue to be addressed first as at least those with a U.K license passed a test set to our standards...
And I don't want to hear shouts of racism over my comments.. I think its a fair point I've made...

[Rangie3.0LtrDan]

I agree with the retest for truckers every 5 years.  I also think everyone should have a retest when they reach 50 as well.

Firstly the truckers thing, they are in charge of a very heavy machine that could, if used incorrectly, cause a much more massive loss of life than that of a car.  I dont however agree they should have to pay for it, it should be covered by the government.  Yes truckers have been driving for years, but just use this scenario, a trucker has been driving for 20 years, how many laws have changed in that 20 years affecting him on the road?

With regards to the retest at 50 i put this down to this being an average point of growing old (i.e. some people not having the reflexes and stuff they used to) and then a retest every 5 years with a failure meaning they cant retest.  Its nothing against old people, its just a recognition of the frailties and stuff that they have with age.  Again i do not believe they should be charged for the retests either.

[Jake]

I read this today and i'm all for it.
The human body can deterriate quite quickly and having to prove our sharpness every 5 years can only be a good thing, considering the loads we carry  
The plan is to have 4 hours of retraining and a medical.
With all the changes in law it'll keep us up to date too.
i.e how many 7.5t motors do we see in the outside lane?
Its been illegal for 9 months now but plenty are still out there.
Also the speed limit for 7.5t vehicles has dropped to 60mph afaik
For me (not self employed) my company picks up the bill for training and medicals.
I do feel for the self employed drivers though.
It'll be a costly 5 year body MOT.
 :)

[discograham]

Everyone should be allowed a retest ! To say a failure means you can't have a retest is madness ! Are you going to improve public transport before you bring in this draconian legislation ? And where is all the money going to come from to pay for this ? I agree with a 5 yearly retest.. but for everyone not just the hgv drivers amongst us...

[Terminus]

I agree that it's unfair to single out one group for a retest but then it was most likely proposed by someone who hasn't ever driven a truck but can easily carve up 3 lanes on the M25 in a Jag (hmmm ok M25 - parking lot - perhaps I should have picked a faster road  :lol: )

We have to sit an advanced (like silly ridiculously advanced driving test) and one of the greatest eye openers is the fact that the instructor takes apart everything you ever thought you knew about driving and makes you look like you've only just discovered the ignition - then rebuilds your knowledge and advances it.

I'd been driving for many many years, no accidents *touch wood* and even I was humbled by the amount of things I didn't do right.

To quote an old favorite "I used to think I was perfect - but I'm better now"  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Edit - oh and 4x4 side of it -- ah what fun  :lol:  :D

[att]

Everyone should take a new theory test evey 5 years, if you fail you should have to re-take your test.

Everybody....No exceptions, and to be done in English, if you don`t understand the lingo, how do you understand the raod signs?

[vaz]

It would help if everyone was subjected to a re test every five years... but is this really nescessary ? How about everyone involved in an incident in stead ? And here is a question... I have been told that if you come into this country you may drive for a year on the license issued by your country of origin.. but if you leave the U.K even for one day during that year then upon your return your year starts again... in other words a quick day trip to france and you've got another year before you have to take a U.K test...
What standard is the driving test in Somalia, Nigeria, The Sudan, etc.. or India, Pakistan, Iran, .. or Poland etc.... surely that is an issue to be addressed first as at least those with a U.K license passed a test set to our standards...
And I don't want to hear shouts of racism over my comments.. I think its a fair point I've made...

here here think there driving license came off the back off a cornflake packet with the standard off driving ive seen of late

[Manicminer]

All Machine Operators have to have a re-test every few years.
It makes sense to move it onto HGV's and eventually everything mobile.
With the machinery you don't retrain to have a re-test

[dreadnought110]

:? how do we go about all the foreign drivers where did they past there test? and will they be bound by the same legislation? a firm near me hires mostly foreign it's very hard to understand chechnian (or however you spell it) makes my job hard... :shock:

[abinitio]

It's not a retest it's 35 hours of assesment over a rolling five year period according to an assesor freind of mine who was informed by VOSA.(yes it's EU legisation)

Whilst on the subject of alterations I have the following gripes;

Coaches should be limited to 56 as trucks are;
Vans should be limited to 70;

If lgv drivers are due assesments then so should everyone whom uses a vehicle as part of their job but this won't happen as they will only concerntrate on vocational liscenses(SP).

[Range Rover Blues]

I agree that HGV drivers should be retested, and for most of the reasons already given.  Anyone who makes a living driving should be one of the best drivers on the road, an example to others.  Most, unfortunately are not.

This is the thin end of the wedge, beleive me.  Once they introduce compulsory retesting for all (and I believe it will come) then I'll be a rich man

If I had my way, it would be...
Pass test
retest in 5 years, or following and accident/conviction
retest every 7-10 years thereafter.

Following a test pass you would be a probationary driver, possibly limited to what you can drive.  Anyone failing a retest becomes a 'P' driver too, untill they can pass the test.

Let's be honest, most 'L' drivers fail the test because of other drivers anyway, in situations they aren't familiar with and so they react badly.

Once you have been on the road 5 years a retest should only be a formality, shouldn't it?

And at the same time they could check your eyesight and issue you with a new photocard licence on the spot, just like the Yanks do!

Oh, and one other thing, think how the insurance companies will take it.

You want to insure a what, a huge people carrier/chelsea tractor? ok what car did you take your last test in? a Corsa?

That'll be £LOADS then please.

IN other words people will have to prove they can handle a big car before they will get insured on it.  Excellent don't you think.

[andycwb]

Coaches should be limited to 56 as trucks are;
Vans should be limited to 70;

Speed limiters dull drivers into being almost asleep at the wheel, as well as slowing overtaking down to a snail's pace.    They're so stupidly dangerous, I find it hard to believe they were introduced without an ulterior motive.

Oh wait, there is an ulterior motive: paving the way for doing the same thing to private vehicles.

[abinitio]

Oh I agree speed limiters are one of the most dangerous things ever fitted to a truck but my argument is that all commercial vehicles should have them if trucks have to.

Lee

[quoman]

if this new law is passed,it wont be for everyones safety,it will just be another new TAX

[rangerider]

It would help if everyone was subjected to a re test every five years... but is this really nescessary ? How about everyone involved in an incident in stead ? And here is a question... I have been told that if you come into this country you may drive for a year on the license issued by your country of origin.. but if you leave the U.K even for one day during that year then upon your return your year starts again... in other words a quick day trip to france and you've got another year before you have to take a U.K test...
What standard is the driving test in Somalia, Nigeria, The Sudan, etc.. or India, Pakistan, Iran, .. or Poland etc.... surely that is an issue to be addressed first as at least those with a U.K license passed a test set to our standards...
And I don't want to hear shouts of racism over my comments.. I think its a fair point I've made...

I am aware of this loophole, and I believe it only applies to certain countries (the geneva convention - but not the one about shooting people) that have broadly agreed a minimum standard for driving tests

[Garin]

:? how do we go about all the foreign drivers where did they past there test? and will they be bound by the same legislation? a firm near me hires mostly foreign it's very hard to understand chechnian (or however you spell it) makes my job hard... :shock:

There have been a couple of cases recently were around 10 Polish drivers are driving on the same driving license number

It's not a retest it's 35 hours of assesment over a rolling five year period according to an assesor freind of mine who was informed by VOSA.(yes it's EU legisation)

This as been working it's way through the system for some time now  and is due to be implemented in the next few years

As for retesting HGV drivers I don't think this is nesaccary, the problem is that a lot of experienced HGV drivers are leaving the industry or moving abroad to Canada etc as they have had enough of the job in this country, that leaves us with people who have just passed their test and foreigners

If every HGV was fitted with a camera facing forward and every vehicle which cut them up was prosecuted then the roads would be a lot safer, most car drivers don't realize or care how much braking distance a fully loaded HGV needs

[tintin86]

If every HGV was fitted with a camera facing forward and every vehicle which cut them up was prosecuted then the roads would be a lot safer, most car drivers don't realize or care how much braking distance a fully loaded HGV needs

i have been a hgv driver for many years in the uk and the eu with many a trip to Russian,i do feel the quote above is very ture andto the point.
The driving standard of the "car driver" is very poor,the things we hgv drivers see everyday you could write a book about :shock: .I could go on for ever but i don't wanna start any mud throwing but a a small view from a driver of a 44 tonne lorry with no points (ever)

[gtomo2]

Thought i would not get involved with this one but here we go.
Its just my little rant.

half of the accidents on the uk roads are coursed by car drivers not understanding the rules and the needs of a hgv when it comes to normal driving and monovering around. yes hgv drivers should have a retest then when we are all off the road and all your shops start to run out of food. who you going to call. think about it for a bit i have been drivig forjust over 20 years in all types of vehicles. and now drive a class1 44ton artic. and if you wonder what is like have a close look at this and tell me how meny cars and people you see not using common sence when it comes to coming face to face with a hgv.
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c257/gtomo2/vids/?action=view&current=Axeminster.flv

Oh little quiz for you what is the speed limit for a hgv on a single carrigeway road?
and just one more how much room would a 60foot artic take to turn left at a road junction?
you would be surprissed at how many car drivers have not got a clue that hgvs work to a differant law to car drivers.
So yes lets all do retests and also lets have some driver training for car drivers so they are aware of the needs and rules for hgv drivers
  rant over :D
Going back to my beer

[V8MoneyPit]

It would help if everyone was subjected to a re test every five years... but is this really nescessary ? How about everyone involved in an incident in stead ? .....

No disrespect intended, of course, but why would you want to wait until someone has a crash before recognising they need retraining? They could have killed someone with their 'incident'. The whole point of retesting would be to avoid the incident in the first place.

Going off on a tangent....
The day we stop using the word 'accident' will be a good day (the word incident is far better). The word accident implies a certain inevitibility. A 'crash' is not inevitable. It is avoidable. We cannot ever say a crash was unavoidable. It might be extremely difficult to avoid, but never inevitable.

[Terminus]

Going off on a tangent....
The day we stop using the word 'accident' will be a good day (the word incident is far better). The word accident implies a certain inevitibility. A 'crash' is not inevitable. It is avoidable. We cannot ever say a crash was unavoidable. It might be extremely difficult to avoid, but never inevitable.

The Police stopped using the word accident a long time ago - they now use crash

[V8MoneyPit]

The Police stopped using the word accident a long time ago - they now use crash

Too right! So is it now an RTC rather than an RTA???  Or maybe and RTI?  :D

[Skibum346]

A few observations, a test does not improve skills it merely tests whether those skills exist. There is an inference that testing will be supported by training but few of the posts I've seen on here have referred to it.

In Germany (in the 80's when I was a young squaddie) in order to obtain a driving licence, potential drivers had to attend a training course at an approved centre. This included not only the usual hour long driving lessons over a period but also included lectures (AFAIK evenings) that taught how the engine works, how the brakes work, how the clutch works etc. The driving lessons included AFAIR night driving, where possible wet weather driving and motorway driving. Only then, were they eligible to sit the test.

This approach whilst it may not be a perfect answer (assuming there is one) deals with cognitive learning (Knowledge, comprehension and application), phsychomotor skills (turning the wheel, pressing the pedal etc) and affective learning (attitudes and discipline).

Whilst in this country the approach to the driving test has been improved with the introduction of the theory test, it is still feasible for a potential driver to sit the tests and (by the grace of your god/s) pass. There is none of the underlying knowledge or comprehension to influence attitudes and discipline; only the phsychomotor skills necessary to control the vehicle.

All drivers should be trained more effectively rather than tested more often, though that does have it's place in my proposal.

Skibum

[littlepow]

Oh little quiz for you what is the speed limit for a hgv on a single carrigeway road?
and just one more how much room would a 60foot artic take to turn left at a road junction?

Easy 40mph for british registered trucks, although most foreign prefer 60mph.
And give the truck the whole lane width, plus the lane it's in. (there bigger and they will hurt more.)

[dew1911]

Oh little quiz for you what is the speed limit for a hgv on a single carrigeway road?

40 MPH

and just one more how much room would a 60foot artic take to turn left at a road junction?

Don't know that one, I'm more used to being around Rigids

you would be surprissed at how many car drivers have not got a clue that hgvs work to a differant law to car drivers

Well said.

[quoman]

Thought i would not get involved with this one but here we go.
Its just my little rant.

half of the accidents on the uk roads are coursed by car drivers not understanding the rules and the needs of a hgv when it comes to normal driving and monovering around. yes hgv drivers should have a retest then when we are all off the road and all your shops start to run out of food. who you going to call. think about it for a bit i have been drivig forjust over 20 years in all types of vehicles. and now drive a class1 44ton artic. and if you wonder what is like have a close look at this and tell me how meny cars and people you see not using common sence when it comes to coming face to face with a hgv.
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c257/gtomo2/vids/?action=view&current=Axeminster.flv

Oh little quiz for you what is the speed limit for a hgv on a single carrigeway road?
and just one more how much room would a 60foot artic take to turn left at a road junction?
you would be surprissed at how many car drivers have not got a clue that hgvs work to a differant law to car drivers.
So yes lets all do retests and also lets have some driver training for car drivers so they are aware of the needs and rules for hgv drivers
  rant over :D
Going back to my beer

 quote:how much room would a 60ft artic take to turn left at a road junction.
 If it is a major junction on a major trunk road,then it should,nt need more room than the lane it is allready in(unless the driver is one of them hgv drivers who think they need all of the road).However if the junction is tight,it is the hgv drivers responsibility to negotiate this junction with extra care for other road users,as hgv drivers we should be the best of the best

[V8MoneyPit]

.......However if the junction is tight,it is the hgv drivers responsibility to negotiate this junction with extra care for other road users,as hgv drivers we should be the best of the best

Although I agree with your comment, it is still not unreasonable to expect other road users to appreciate the different requirements of other vehicles, i.e. braking distances, max speed limits, etc.

Also, there is something to be said for common courtesey on the roads as elsewhere in life. Leaving room for a truck is without exception appreciated by the driver and he/she will inevitably acknowledge you for your courtesy. This, in turn, makes both parties feel better and will improve their driving attitude for the rest of the journey.

[quoman]

.......However if the junction is tight,it is the hgv drivers responsibility to negotiate this junction with extra care for other road users,as hgv drivers we should be the best of the best

Although I agree with your comment, it is still not unreasonable to expect other road users to appreciate the different requirements of other vehicles, i.e. braking distances, max speed limits, etc.

Also, there is something to be said for common courtesey on the roads as elsewhere in life. Leaving room for a truck is without exception appreciated by the driver and he/she will inevitably acknowledge you for your courtesy. This, in turn, makes both parties feel better and will improve their driving attitude for the rest of the journey.

I accept that it would be courtious of other road users to realise the difficulties large hgv,s have at some junctions ect,some drivers do offer this courtecy,others are just plain ignorant,however the responcibility rest with the hgv driver