Locking blade leatherman etc...illegal??

[dreadnought110]

Just for information i didn't know that any locking blade is illegal even if it is in  a swiss army knife,leatherman etc.. how many of us carry a leatherman when we are off roading etc..?? if you get stopped for any reason you can get done for it unless any one knows different? Please let me know Thanks :? Oh i had mine confiscated going on to the london eye!!  SWMBO was not happy i was removed from the Q to fill out a form very embarssing :oops:

[TDi90]

Really? is this true?

[dreadnought110]

:? Put in a search on google it's an eye opener!!!

[floyd fan]

Bladed items etc:- 139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place.  Applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.  

So if your leatherman is less than 3 inch blade then it is legal.

[dreadnought110]

:( thats what i thought but according to the met police it's ANY locking blade from stanely knife to a 1" pocket knife!!!        http://www.met.police.uk/youth/law_test.htm

[floyd fan]

The're making it up as they go along. If it was in its holder then it is not an offensive weapon and, if it was strapped to your belt then it wasn't a conceled weapon. The law only applies to locking blades that are gravity opened or spring opening i.e. flick knife.

[dreadnought110]

So why did they confiscate it off me it was in a sheaf and it was not a flick or gravity blade?? :?

[PUX]

ERRRMM a leather man is classed as a tool when traveling in public it should be in a holdal or when going on a plane etc etc in the hodal luggage but must be decleared i belive u must have a genuine reason for it being there though  i stand to be corrected :D

[dreadnought110]

But wouldn't you class the swiss army knife in the same league as the leatherman also looking through google there was a case where they classed a car as being in public  and still did the bloke for having the locking blade in the vehicle..I am realy getting confused now if any one has links, or is or knows a policeman please let me know :?

[dreadnought110]

:? even the scouts can be in trouble??  http://web.ukonline.co.uk/scoutnotebook/scoutcraft/dangerousarticles.html

[Llanigraham]

That Scouting link is really useful and explains it well.
As I read it, if you cannot justify it, you shouldn't be carrying it.

I carry a Herbertz Lock Knife with a 88mm blade (3.5") but have been told by the local police that since I am a registered First Aider than that would be justification UNLESS I was seen to be using it inappropriately.
Was also told that being a shop keeper might be considered too, as I needed it to open packages

[Eeyore]

Just to complicate matters, I have also been informed that many Leathermans bypass the locked blade rules because the device must first be opened to access the blade. Whilst the agruement could be applied to any form of butterfly knife, on such knives the blade is exposed in one operation, whereas many Leathermans require two explicit operations to access the blade (open tool, open blade).

Now, I've only been informed of this (by a Constable) so I'm not saying it's gospel. All it does show is that something as simple as multi-tool is still shrouded in mystery, half truths and confusion.

If anyone can post a link to the whole legislation, I'd be fascinated to go through 'em and precis.

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[dreadnought110]

:? I also have the Gerber version of the leatherman and you don't need to have this open to access the locking blade so is this illegal???

[floyd fan]

Oh dear

From..... http://www.seax.demon.co.uk/kl.htm

For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife

[LANDYTIM]

Dads been a copper for 30 years and I believe from what he said that it is illegal to have any locking or gravity opened blade.

[dreadnought110]

:?I am glad i found out now rather than being stopped by a copper and being prosecuted!! I thought it best to make as many people aware as possible!!! :shock:

[floyd fan]

So if you filed the locking bit off the knife blade so as it won't lock then it must be legal.

[Skibum346]

So... to be clear... they'd be happier that the blade folded up on you during use than carried out it's designed function in safety?

 :shock:

[Bulli]

usual crap, i have an assortment of knives in the car for various jobs from peeling veg to cutting thick stuff. I know you can get done for going equiped but frankly i think the whole thing is a joke.
People kill people with kitchen knives not leathermen/gerbers

[Wolfie]

:( thats what i thought but according to the met police it's ANY locking blade from stanely knife to a 1" pocket knife!!!        http://www.met.police.uk/youth/law_test.htm

Actually, on that page they do say that a 2" Swiss Army knife is legal, but on the linked page at http://www.met.police.uk/youth/weapons.htm they state

An offensive weapon is any bladed or sharply pointed instrument.*

* Under the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (section 139)

However, if you look at what the law actually says at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880033_en_12.htm#mdiv139  

(1)  Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

    (2)  Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

    (3)  This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

It appears that the Police are being over zealous in their enforcement.

I note from your other thread, that they confiscated the knife - was this under CJA s139? If so, I believe that they have acted outside the law.

Of course it's possible that the law has been tightened by another Act of Parliament, so it would be worth looking into it further. It's also possible that there are specific laws relating to what you are allowed to take onto the London Eye, in the same way as there are for aircraft.

Regards

Wolfie

[dreadnought110]

Of course it's possible that the law has been tightened by another Act of Parliament, so it would be worth looking into it further. It's also possible that there are specific laws relating to what you are allowed to take onto the London Eye, in the same way as there are for aircraft.

Regards

Wolfie[/quote]      they was taking any swiss army style knifes off everyone but they got them back when you got off.But because mine had a lock on the main blade they confiscated it off me..

[dreadnought110]

Wolfie, read the scout link as well that has about the locking blades it makes no difference on blade length it's illegal???

[Bulli]

they must be misinterpreting the law. I cannot understand how an item can be illegal and still readily available for sale. You cannot buy flick knives as they are illegal. Surely you would not be able to sell an illegal item??
Locking bladed knives are by far safer in use then folding knives. I use one regularily at work.

[Wolfie]

Cheers,

Missed the bit about locking blade. All is clear now (well less unclear)

I'll just have to be more careful about which knife I carry around with me, but I'll keep the locking blade knife on my harness for rope rescue purposes - I'm not compromising my safety when dangling over huge amounts of nothing!

regards

Wolfie

[dreadnought110]

:) No worries it just gets me as to how few people( including me!) didn't know this and could have got into trouble..

[TimM]

As I see it all locking knives are illegal over a certain length.... blah....blah...blah.

BUT......

For the ruling to be used you've got to be asking for it in reality:

1) you have a 8" knife in the back of your 4x4 along with a crowbar, an axe, etc in a bag - and this bag is muddy and has old bits of bush/tree in it where you've been cutting yourself a path through foliage.

2) you have a 3" lock knife in a belt pouch while walking down the street.

Potentially both of these are illegal, but only a fool would take the first one to task, but any PC in their right mind wouldn't be happy with the second.

[johnpirate]

I carry a 3in locking knife locked in the cubby box of the car its there for gutting rabbits when I,ve been hunting . I assume that this must be a legal reason for having one.Mind you I assume they would be more interested in the firearm in its cover locked in the boot before they got to the cubby box.I always carry a copy of my certificates with me to save time.

[discomummy]

Hi,

i was cutting up some fruit for my kids in a park, with my swiss army knife, and was told that my knife was illegal by two passing policemen.  however as i did not fit into their idea of a crazed knife wielding maniac, they let me keep my knife!!!!!

regards

ela,

[Horness]

Same old situation, ban what you think you cannot control.  In the wrong hands a sharpened pencil is a deadly weapon.  What are they going to do next, make us all draw with crayons?  :roll:

DM' - I always get strange looks from people when I take out my knife to peel fruit, open packaging or cut string etc.  For me it's an essential tool which I use every day, and have done since I was about 9.  Nowadays an essential tool for most people is their mobile phone.

The law is not always in place to protect you, but to catch you out when you weren't paying attention.  

I'll be glad when I'm off this rock.

[Penguinius]

I think this is another example of extremely vague legality with (in my experience) selective enforcement.

A good friend of mine is a AR Police Officer and there have been in many occasions when I've been in his company around about with my SOG Multi-tool in my jacket pocket, We got to talking about the issue and his words were (and by no means legaly binding) as long as you don't have it out, have a valid reason for carrying it [It being a multi tool makes it pretty obviously not weapon] and you arn't being a prat you should be OK. To prove his point he pulled out a 5" Locking Emerson knife that he carried with him everywhere, Issued to him no less.

I don't carry anything like that now with the whole knives are bad thing in the press at the moment. Which is a pitty as they are very handy tools to have to hand.