Surely the future of fuel?

[thermidorthelobster]

I read an article recently, Diesel Car magazine I think, about converting your diesel to run on vegetable oil.

Basically you shell out about a grand to have your car converted to run on vegetable oil, which is viscous when cold, so you have to have a little heater in your tank and a couple of other bits.  Once converted, the car will apparently run just as happily on vegetable oil, diesel, or any mix of the two.

First thing is, the fuel is cheaper.  You can buy bulk veg oil at about 40p a litre and pay the tax on it, bringing it to about 75p/litre IIRC, ie about 20% cheaper than standard diesel.

But, surely this is the main thing:  veg oil is CARBON NEUTRAL.  ie, it pulls in the same amount of CO2 when you grow it as it releases when you burn it.  So, bang, straight away you've got rid of the problem of releasing CO2 from burning fossil fuels.

Moreover, it's a totally renewable fuel, so you can grow as much of it as you need (at a cost, of course), thus totally eliminating the dependence on ever-more-expensive fossil fuels.  Think of the way the world would change politically if we weren't all dependent on the oil-producing nations.

So...  why isn't everybody flogging away at this fanatically?  Why haven't all the green organisations latched onto it as a way of getting rid of CO2 release and dependence on fossil fuels?  Why all this research into hydrogen fuel (which still needs power from somewhere to make it in the first place, usually from gas-fired power stations) when there's a fuel right on the doorstep that does all this already?

Where's the flaw in my logic?!

[Rangie3.0LtrDan]

I ran it in me 90 TD with no modifications at all, it worked fine.

Only downside is it stinks like hell when your stationary.

[Wolfie]

Biofuels..... are they really a good idea?

If all vehicles were to run on biofuel, where would the stuff be grown?

There is evidence that the current targets for biofuel use in Europe are contributing to the destruction of rainforsts, eg http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18825265.400&feedId=online-news_rss20, http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0425-oil_palm.html

It's the same problem that there is with electric vehicles, Hydrogen power etc - the whole impact needs to be looked at.

Now I don't claim to have the answer to the problem of global warming except that we should aim to reduce our consumption of fuel - but without restricting peoples choices of activities

I'll be doing my bit again this winter by heating my home using scrap wood that would have deen destined for landfill/incineration if I didn't get my hands on it.

Regards

Wolfie

(and fossil fuels can be considered to be carbon neutral if you look over a suitable timescale)

[johnpirate]

I,ve been running my Disco on a 50/50 veg oil diesel mix for over a year .It runs fine .In the  winter I have to weaken the mixture a bit as the veg oil thickens a bit too much in the cold weather.I havent done any mods .I,m registered with C/E and pay my bit every month.

[Bob696]

So... why isn't everybody flogging away at this fanatically? Why haven't all the green organisations latched onto it as a way of getting rid of CO2 release and dependence on fossil fuels?

Call me cynical but my thoughts are that the 'greens' want to get rid of cars and its as simple as that. They have set themselves a target and compromise will not come into it.

The greenies scare the crap out of me .... I think they would all like us living in the 17th century.

[Jas278]

Yes ,the fuels there.............................lip service from the governments about going green and backhanders from the oil companys ..............

[thermidorthelobster]

(and fossil fuels can be considered to be carbon neutral if you look over a suitable timescale)

Er, yes, but the timescale is millions of years - way longer than the entire human period of existence!  I don't think many definitions of "renewable" would encompass fossil fuels...  :)

[bezzabsa]

Basically you shell out about a grand to have your car converted to run on vegetable oil,
?

Where's the flaw in my logic?!

was a program on earlier this year about a couple running an eco farm in wales - I think it cost him £25 to convet a renault van to run on veggie oil, 2nd hand fuel tank 1 switch and some copper wire to make a fuel heater!
whe you consider veggie oil is between 35p and 75p a litre, then the government want their cut,. you can understand why many people dont go 'legit'.. i have access to about 300 l;itres of used chip shop oil a month - but by the time i have filtered it and cleaned it - then payed the tax.....well..
company quite close to me does it for 72p a litre with duty pre-paid!

[smo]

The thing about WVO, SVO and Bio-Diesel is many modern cars cant run on it, take the TD5 for example!

[johnpirate]

I know dont you just love 200Tdi's  :lol:

[ne jones]

I've been using B100 for about 2-3 months now bought straight from the pump in rowley regis @ 72p per litre.
However, i read on one forum that you can test whether the oil is affected by using biodiesel by seeing how many times it drips from the dipstick.
The website suggested testing the oil twice a week and looking for it dripping from the dipstick 2-3 times, any less and the oil is being contaminated by the fuel?
Since doing pump mods to my 200tdi Discovery and increasing the boost I have gone back to dino-diesel fearful of what is happening to the engine as when i checked the oil which was new 5,000 miles ago there was no dripping from the dipstick whatsoever.

[beast5680]

its a good idea but the vast tracts of land that would have to be given up to grow it would negate the benefits as the world would starve  :?
if it was grown and every one converts you would have to pray for a good harvest if it fails your stuck with no fuel
its not strictly neutral as large diesel powered machines would plant it, crop spray it and harvest it, if its wet when harvesting then it needs to be dried using more fuel

[thermidorthelobster]

Wonder what the yield is in terms of litres per acre?  (Or gallons per hectare :) )  Apparently rape seed oil gives the most efficient yield.

Had a quick google (tm) but can't see anything.

[treegeek1978]

i saw a program about orangutans in borneo. they were massively wiped out of thier habitat because the government wanted the land for massive plantations of oil producing plants. they messed it up big style and the land went to waste. because there were trees lying about everywhere, there was a massive fire that produced something crazy like 30% of the worlds carbon emissions for that year. i, personally think we need to start putting more pressure on america, a country that has 4% of the worlds population yet uses 25% of the world oil production and still moan about 50p/ltr prices. if we're gonna fight thier wars for them than they should at least do thier bit. new technology means that we are getting more and more efficient engines. we don't need alternatives (although every little helps). we need to all pull in the same direction.

[thermidorthelobster]

No, I was wrong.

Feedstock   US Gallons/acre   Litres/hectare
Soybean   40   375
Rapeseed   110   1,000
Mustard   140   1,300
Jatropha   175   1,590
Palm oil   650   5,800
Algae   10,000   95,000

In which case, for me to run the Discovery for a year and do 25,000 miles would take an acre of palm oil, give or take...  But I could run for about 20 years on an acre of algae.

Interesting...

[tomarse]

my local LPG specialist is branching out into veggie oil conversions too, and selling the kit for it.
They showed me a collection of heating bits and some switch over taps and pipework when i last visited.

[clbarclay]

its not strictly neutral as large diesel powered machines would plant it, crop spray it and harvest it, if its wet when harvesting then it needs to be dried using more fuel

Yes and you could/can run all the above machines on biofuel, like all energy sources its a case of having a higher output than the required input.

[rollazuki]

Im now a believer. At least its not carcinogenic like dino juice. wether the world can produce enough to run all our cars I dunno, but when Dino runs out in 20-30 years, I guess we'll find out eh.....