Alliance against urban 4x4s

[spy]

I have just had a read through their website and came away with my blood boiling.  What a load of ignorant tos sers.

It says you can email them for some high quality printed stickers so you can go and target the climate criminals yourself.  Needless to say, I sent an email.  May as well have some to bin and waste at least a bit of their time and money.  

They actually encourage people to replace a 4x4 with a people carrier!  Maybe they just dont like rear prop shafts?  So if you sell your 7 seater disco tdi and buy a 3.3 crysler voyager petrol your ok in their book?  

Pure ignorance.

Take a look for yourself!  www.stopurban4x4s.org.uk

[snezza69]

I have to say its quite sad really.

These are the types of people who rant and rave about generalisations, but when it suits them...........!

Personally I wouldnt give them the satisfaction!

Let them do their best!

[datalas]

The other side of the argument, presented by our very own mr muddy...

http://4x4prejudice.org/

[Boggert]

Who the hell do they think they are, it is still a free country and we are currently fighting for our freedom, so as soon as the ban 4x4's in towns we might as well all become communists.

The comment "To make it as un socially acceptable as drink driving" made me laugh... Not a hope in hell!  :lol:

They looked like a sad bunch.

[clbarclay]

There are elements of sense in what the antis have to say, however "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and "thinking is one of the hardest jobs in the world which is why so few people do it"

[bezzabsa]

Just sent them this mail



Having been directed to your site by a fellow 4x4'er I thought that I would HAVE to email to enquire how much you won in the bet?????

Surely only someone who stood to win a substantial amount through a bet would spout such ridiculous nonsense...and as for 'SPOOF' parking tickets - well!!!

I could understand if the campaign as directed to ALL large engined vehicles in inner cities like London, but to only target 4x4 vehicles is stupid and pointless - most exec's in the city tend to drive  luxury vehicles such as Jaguars - Mercedes - BMW and Bentley - which if you compare MPG and CO2 figures to an Average 4x4 such as Discovery and even the Range Rover then i think you'll find that the 4x4's actually produce better figures!

As a person who owns a 1986 Land rover 110 12 seater (so therefore EXEMPT from the London congestion charge), and who also rides a motorcycle (so I am going to eat your babies and frighten old women!!) I find the sweeping generalisations on your website to be offensive and totally biased.

Going back to the 'spoof' tickets - I applaud your 'guidelines' - BUT why make a site that screams that ALL urban 4x4's are evil - then state that smaller 4x4's and 'muddy' ones are ok ....well I live in a town - and mine is Muddy - so does that make me OK?  

I am suer that the local Constabulary would be interested in the fact that 'fake' tickets were being issued , I presume with your FULL consent and knowledge????? surely you must have realised that this is a offence? If not well im sure the owners of the web site would agree to removing ALL illegal material and references to such.

I await a reply.

Mr N Mason

cant wait to see if i get a reply

[muddyman]

and I bet you dont get a reply. they make me ******* mad

[barnhill4x4]

  Here is the problem, During thier childhood they were brought up by strict parents and probably breast fed till thier early teens. Now, as they get older and thier parents are either in a rest home or dead. Now they have no fears of a smack around the head so they are now able to rebel, they have turned into aging hippies and wear ripped jeans and sandals. The parents left tham loads of money in the trust fund and they need something to waste it on and feel good about themselves.

[schuee]

  Here is the problem, During thier childhood they were brought up by strict parents and probably breast fed till thier early teens. Now, as they get older and thier parents are either in a rest home or dead. Now they have no fears of a smack around the head so they are now able to rebel, they have turned into aging hippies and wear ripped jeans and sandals. The parents left tham loads of money in the trust fund and they need something to waste it on and feel good about themselves.

Well said  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[I dream of 60mph]

Everytime I read anything like this I get more and more annoyed and amazed at the reasons they put forward for banning 4x4's.

I end up ranting to the wife about it and anyone else who is close enough to listen, I hate it, there are so many things out there that the Government need to sort out and dont, why else would they do this other than the revenue it would bring in... makes me mad..

[muddyweb]

Here is the problem, During thier childhood they were brought up by strict parents and probably.......

Whilst I understand your frustration...  getting personal isn't the answer...  one thing that always stops these people in their tracks is being confronted by solid, substantiated facts.  They prey on people's lack of understanding of the real situation and work within the hype-laden tabloid society we have allowed to perpetuate.

I hate it, there are so many things out there that the Government need to sort out and dont, why else would they do this other than the revenue it would bring in... makes me mad.

This one isn't about government either... this is about a small number of parties with an axe to grind, on both sides of the commons.  Once again, they listen to the small voices of people who preach their version of "the facts".

To fight back...  use nothing but the facts and you'll win every time.

[I dream of 60mph]

:oops:  Oops, I thought they would have something to do with it all, I tend to start seeing red part way through and miss details due to the ignorance and attitude of some people... :oops:

[Yoshi]

Unfortunately tim what you said there isnt true.  Giving these people solid facts doesnt stop them, think how many times they have been given real facts and now look at the fact they are still going.  The only thing that will stop these people is positive action.  There isnt enough good press going our way, the only things i can remember off the top of my head are Neils interview on the beeb and also the news article on Powys 4x4 response (think its called that).

What we need is more positive stories like that, inviting local press out to the days when we go out and clear the lanes for everyone to use, showing that those like the ramblers expect it to be done for them but dont bother to lift a finger to do it themselves.  Also some good rescue stories, let your local press know, i.e. instead of reading constantly that a 4x4 ran over a kid or nearly did etc..... something along the lines of "4x4 rescues walker with broken leg" etc.......

I know its a hard task and at this stage all talk (all the bodies that represent us are guilty of the just talking bit, while the anti's are getting unopposed views out in the press cos we are too busy talking) but as i said before, we need to get out there and show we arent the monsters that people think we are.

***puts soapbox back under Tim's desk***

[muddyweb]

I think we are fiercely agreeing with each other ;-)

I didn't mean that you'd ever be able to sway their opinions... they are pretty much entrenched in their campaign.   What I mean is that you have to fight their campaign with fact...  it works...

I've been involved in quite a lot of press opposing their campaign, including local and national radio and newspaper coverage.  I was even lined up for a live debate on BBC2... but funnily enough, the other parties "weren't able to make it" shortly before it was all due to go ahead....

Positive action is the way to go and it does make a difference....

[barnhill4x4]

Here is a story to use,
  2 years ago I was walking the dogs up a local mountain. It was a very snowy day and we had used the discovery to get us up there. Whilst we were there 2 cars were spotted ramming into eachother.
  Upon closer inspection it was noted that one was a BMW 328i about 2 years old and the other one was a toyota corrolla about 5 years old. I called the police with the details and they told me that they know about the cars as they were seen speeding through a local village and they confirmed them as stolen but thier 2wd police cars has no chance of catching them in the snow.
   I then told them to meet me at the bottom of the aproaching lane and I would take them up.
  When I got there I found 2 police cars, one with 2 officers in nd another with a police dog and its handler.
  I gave them all a lift there and stopped a fair distance away. By now the cars had been abandoned and were being set on fire. As the 4 youths were running toward a footpath the dog gave chase and caught them.
  At that point the police helicopter turned up, I was thanked for my services and that was about it. I never heard a word since!

[Evilgoat]

I might have a pop later if I can summon up the willpower. Already had 'Climate Killer' pasted to The Rabbit, which untill I realised the [!Expletive Deleted!] glued it on I thought was finny (Parked next to a V12 jag at the time)

I shall merely point out that shoudl I find one of these on my cars or anyone I know they will be prosecuted for just about anything I can find, starting with criminal damage and littering.

[Yoshi]

Barnhill4x4 see how thats the kind of press we need, showing that we do care about the lanes, and that we are trying to deal with the minority of users who are abusing them.

[snezza69]

It pains me to say it, but the greenies have identified a soft target.  The 4x4 fraternity is small (relatively).  Move in the same (or similar) circles, not including the people who drive 4x4's as status symbols or Bling!  Most people will not or have not experienced 4x4's on or off road and have no comprehension of the arguament.  In the currant climate these fence sitters will inevitably be drawn to the anti side unless positive press coverage can be utilsed to the wider issue.

I am not a greenie (except after a skin full and a dodgy curry), but I see the arguament for "gas guzzling" vehicles.

I still cannot understand, other than for the reasons stated above, where the hostility to a minority comes from.

I don't know, but maybe someone can enlighten me!

These people are playing a political game, nothing more.

[Yoshi]

Indeed, the problem is they cant be seen to be picking on people carriers as they are predominantly family vehicles, and lets face it, what anti movement has actually worked by alienating families.

But its not just people carriers.  Think about it, look at an old vehicle from say around 1999.  Shall we say for example a bog standard 1.6 astra estate (nice family car for the sake of argument), what mpg does it do compared to a diesel discovery thats 10 years older?

This is just a "lets have an argument we can win" type thing.  We all know its a minority of Ramblers that dislike us, unfortunately its the hierachy of the RA thats the minority.  I have met ramblers before who have been more than nice, even held gates open and stopped and had a natter.  The majority believe everyone should have access to the country side, not just the able bodied.

Has anyone thought about taking the RA to court over their propaganda?  Surely them saying that they dont want 4x4's in the countryside has some form of anti disabled slurr?  We all know that for some people, me included, the only way into the countryside is in a 4x4 on a green lane?

[Range Rover Blues]

I might ask them for some aof their parking tickets and stick them on everything BUT a 4x4.  Given that the one I've been driving all day is 18b years old I have avoided the massive polution that creating a new people carrier would cause, I run it on LPG which is a by product (read WASTE) of refining the fuel for their people carriers, these people are ********s, they won't let a seilly thing like the truth get in the way of their prejudice.  Time to start sticking their **** on a few jumbo jets I say.

[beast5680]

i like this http://www.whatwouldjesusdrive.org/  :lol:

i bet he would have driven a toyota hilux :lol:  it be the only way he would have got all them loaves and fish about  :lol:

[beast5680]

their guidlines for issuing tickets are quite funny as well

To issue a ticket, simply identify a parked wastemonster and slip the ticket under the windscreen wiper on the passenger side.
Avoid folding the ticket. Part of the point of the campaign is that passers by can read the information too.
Don’t issue tickets to moving or occupied vehicles. This might distract the driver and cause an accident. and they might get mown down
Stick to the public highway and never go onto anyone’s private property to issue a ticket.
Use the lightest of touches when issuing the tickets, and take very great care not to damage the vehicle in any way.
Never use glue or tape, or attach tickets to vehicles with anything else. People in America have been sued for this kind of thing.
Stick to the big models (see the back of the ticket for a rough list and avoid the little ones like the Justy and Fiat Panda) and make sure you look out for signs of genuine off-road use, such as mud or equipment in the back. We want the farmers who need these things on our side, so try not to annoy them by mis-targeting.
Avoid knowingly ticketing the same vehicle more than once. The tickets should be a gentle hint to help urban drivers think twice about their choice – not a tool of harassment. In any case, there are many, many more urban 4x4s than we have tickets, so spread them around as many different vehicles as you can.
Please share these guidelines with anyone you pass tickets on to as well.

[Yoshi]

The problem is the farmers think they are stupid as well!

[barnhill4x4]

their guidlines for issuing tickets are quite funny as well

.......................Stick to the big models (see the back of the ticket for a rough list and avoid the little ones like the Justy and Fiat Panda) ............

  Exactly our point, Even they realise the flaws in thier argument!!!!!

[Very Annoyed]

The 2 blonde ones obviously don't get laid enough!

[muddyweb]

The 2 blonde ones obviously don't get laid enough!

 :roll:

[datalas]

i like this http://www.whatwouldjesusdrive.org/  :lol:

i bet he would have driven a toyota hilux :lol:  it be the only way he would have got all them loaves and fish about  :lol:

Curiously enough,  Given the last edict passed from Jesus to Paul (the first pope) was "whatever you hold true on earth, I shall hold true in heaven", we can assume that not only does papal infalibility get enshrined into the religion, but that Jesus would clearly drive a popemobile, which, ISTR is (or at least was) a Range Rover.

Ergo, anyone that wants them banned is a heretic, defying gods will and other unfriendly things [1].




[1] sadly there is one minor and subtle flaw with this logic, which is that it's blatently rubbish, however it is at least rather humourous.

[Bob696]

[1] sadly there is one minor and subtle flaw with this logic, which is that it's blatently rubbish, however it is at least rather humourous.

Usable argument with organised religions then.

[barnhill4x4]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5309454.stm

  24 Ton!!!!!!

[Yoshi]

Definately a rangie front end there