Big brother just got a little more sophisticated

[att]

Can You Hear Me Now?
December 05, 2006 3:38 PM

Vic Walter and Krista Kjellman Report:


Cell phone users, beware. The FBI can listen to everything you say, even when the cell phone is turned off.

A recent court ruling in a case against the Genovese crime family revealed that the FBI has the ability from a remote location to activate a cell phone and turn its microphone into a listening device that transmits to an FBI listening post, a method known as a "roving bug." Experts say the only way to defeat it is to remove the cell phone battery.

"The FBI can access cell phones and modify them remotely without ever having to physically handle them," James Atkinson, a counterintelligence security consultant, told ABC News. "Any recently manufactured cell phone has a built-in tracking device, which can allow eavesdroppers to pinpoint someone's location to within just a few feet," he added.


According to the recent court ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Lewis Kaplan, "The device functioned whether the phone was powered on or off, intercepting conversations within its range wherever it happened to be."

The court ruling denied motions by 10 defendants to suppress the conversations obtained by "roving bugs" on the phones of John Ardito, a high-ranking member of the family, and Peter Peluso, an attorney and close associate of Ardito, who later cooperated with the government. The "roving bugs" were approved by a judge after the more conventional bugs planted at specified locations were discovered by members of the crime family, who then started to conduct their business dealings in several additional locations, including more restaurants, cars, a doctor's office and public streets.

"The courts have given law enforcement a blank check for surveillance," Richard Rehbock, attorney for defendant John Ardito, told ABC News.

Judge Kaplan's ruling said otherwise. "While a mobile device makes interception easier and less costly to accomplish than a stationary one, this does not mean that it implicated new or different privacy concerns." He continued, "It simply dispenses with the need for repeated installations and surreptitious entries into buildings. It does not invade zones of privacy that the government could not reach by more conventional means."

But Rehbock disagrees. "Big Brother is upon us...1984 happened a long time ago," he said, referring to the George Orwell futuristic novel "1984," which described a society whose members were closely watched by those in power and was published in 1949.

The FBI maintains the methods used in its investigation of the Genovese family are within the law. "The FBI does not discuss sensitive surveillance techniques other than to emphasize that any electronic surveillance is done pursuant to a court order and ongoing judicial scrutiny," Agent Jim Margolin told ABC News.

:shock:  :shock:  :shock:

[Evilgoat]

I would say this is probobly urban legend.

[att]

I would say this is probobly urban legend.

Check the source out......It is fro real. :roll:

[Lee_D]

Gave me a giggle though, utter tosh!

there are far less complex methods to listen to someone should you wish, it's hardly rocket science.

And let's face it, unless moaning about anti 4x4's , the cost of petrol /beer / cigarettes becomes a fedral offences they will be bored out of there minds, trust me.

 :)

[Yoshi]

att yeah, dont forget the detectives in manchester who thought a hoax involving mobile phones was real.

seen this one at least 3 times in the last 3 years.  its been proven false each time because once the mobile phone is switched off it cannot be remotely activated, which is why onboard gps cannot be traced when the phone is powered off.

[Yoshi]

but then it might be possible when you read this extract from another source;

Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set.

[Evilgoat]

but then it might be possible when you read this extract from another source;

Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set.

1:
When you look at the way the phones work there are a lot of obsticles to this. Quite a few phones DO permanantly go off when you turn them off. Also most that do simply set a wtachdog that then turns the phone on again, its just the realtime clock thats running.

2:
Its also illegal in the us and UK to evesdrop like this

3:
Its assuming that every CDMA phone ever made supports this, No, its unlikeley the manufacturers would co-operate, as shown when the FBI asked about back doors into Win XP

4:
TACS, ETACS, GSM, GPRS and EDGE *CERTAINLY* dont support it

5:
An active phone can be traced in terms of location and its doen by tri-angulation from the cell masts, accuracy isnt great and it does not work if the phone is off.

I could go on :)

[rollazuki]

erm cough cough   bul*&hit

Cant be done, used to work in the mobile phone industry, I dont believe its possible.

A 'turned on' phone can be tracked as it moves through 'cells' but has been pointed out its not that accurate.  I once tracked a phone that progressed up the M1 from London to Leeds when the cust tried to refuse to pay for calls made(that made him feel big broth really was watching him), but as for remote turning on/off


Nah

[att]

Be happy in your ignorance.

You guys have no idea of .....Nah....I really can`t be bothered explaining myself....It is tedious.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

It can be done with the Tetra system.

[Lee_D]

It can be done with the Tetra system.

Really? Tell us more. I work with Tetra and it's new to me so I'm a doubting thomas.

[Evilgoat]

It can be done with the Tetra system.

Really? Tell us more. I work with Tetra and it's new to me so I'm a doubting thomas.

We could tell you, but we'd have to kill you :)

Besides you track a tetra radio by the things that dont work around it ;) Ones we get lent when doing cover/planning/etc play merry hell with the kit in the control unit.

[Cyberprog]

Reminds me of a visit I had from the FBI regarding a customers server.

Turned up at my office demanding the machine, got a little narked off when I told them they could f*** off and come back with a) a UK copper, and b) a warrant.

Then they got annoyed that I didn't actually have the server there (the IP block was registered to my office) and it was in london. They got even more annoyed when I broached the costs of going and getting it with them. Oh, and then they wanted me to log and store for them any and all data going to and from it. Didn't want to pay for it.

They gave up in the end and just took the hard drive after giving me a reciept for it, must chase them on that actually, they've had it for a while...

In short: the FBI don't have any jurisdiction over here in the UK unless they are accompanied by a UK police officer and a warrant, and even then technically they're not allowed to do jack sh*t the copper has to.

The really funny thing was the way they had FBI on literally everything they wore, just in case they forgot who they worked for I guess.... small minds and everything...

[Yoshi]

They have no jurisdiction at all over here, they are americans and think that american law applies to all countries.  Always nice to see them flap :D

[littlepow]

Once a mobile is turned off, it no longer pings the network. The network drops it. That's why if you turn your mobile off and drive to a new location it takes longer to log back onto your network provider.
If they did use your phone as a bug, then you'd know because your battery wouldn't last very long. As it would be permanetly making a call. This would give you interferrence on certain receiving equipment.
That and phone taps are not admissable in court in the UK.
But web cams and mics can be remotely accessed and used if your on the Internet.

[Lostboy]

The only way to make sure your thoughts and opinions are truely kept to yourself is to wear a little hat made of tin-foil - we can read your brain waves from space you know!

[AbyssDJ]

why would the american FBI be listening in to an english "cell phone" ? ;)

[drutt]

The only way to make sure your thoughts and opinions are truely kept to yourself is to wear a little hat made of tin-foil - we can read your brain waves from space you know!

curiously enough, in research done by MIT it was proved that wearing a tinfoil hat makes it easier to read your brainwaves

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

why would the american FBI be listening in to an english "cell phone" ? ;)

To try and understand 'English' humour, of course e.g

"Hell Bud, hopefully we'll get what that Monty Pye Thon things is all about, coz I sure as hell don't have a clue!"

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

It can be done with the Tetra system.

Really? Tell us more. I work with Tetra and it's new to me so I'm a doubting thomas.

When I did my Tetra/Airwaves training last year, I was informed that all emergency services Tetra systems have the capability to be remotely switched on, in the event of 'personal safety being compromised' or in non PC speak, when you are in the cr*p and can't hit the panic button.
They will also have shortly an inbuilt GPS locator system, purely for personal safety reasons of course!
This also goes for the vehicle radios as well. As a result of this conversation in the cabs have become very staid of late e.g "Look at that lovely sunset over there" "Indeed, how delightful".

[rollazuki]

If they did listen in to my mobile, what would they hear?

Me chatting at work, driving me truck, watching telly?

Thats on a good day.................



FBI must be bored eh!

[Evilgoat]

It can be done with the Tetra system.

Really? Tell us more. I work with Tetra and it's new to me so I'm a doubting thomas.

When I did my Tetra/Airwaves training last year, I was informed that all emergency services Tetra systems have the capability to be remotely switched on, in the event of 'personal safety being compromised' or in non PC speak, when you are in the cr*p and can't hit the panic button.
They will also have shortly an inbuilt GPS locator system, purely for personal safety reasons of course!
This also goes for the vehicle radios as well. As a result of this conversation in the cabs have become very staid of late e.g "Look at that lovely sunset over there" "Indeed, how delightful".

Funilly enough, the last few EMS veichles I drove had the mic disconnected and stowed in the glovebox :)

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

It can be done with the Tetra system.

Really? Tell us more. I work with Tetra and it's new to me so I'm a doubting thomas.

When I did my Tetra/Airwaves training last year, I was informed that all emergency services Tetra systems have the capability to be remotely switched on, in the event of 'personal safety being compromised' or in non PC speak, when you are in the cr*p and can't hit the panic button.
They will also have shortly an inbuilt GPS locator system, purely for personal safety reasons of course!
This also goes for the vehicle radios as well. As a result of this conversation in the cabs have become very staid of late e.g "Look at that lovely sunset over there" "Indeed, how delightful".

Funilly enough, the last few EMS veichles I drove had the mic disconnected and stowed in the glovebox :)

Aah! That old ploy! Doesn't work though. They have remote mics as well as the handhelds. Its the 'blackbox' data recorders that are fitted that can be a bit of a double edged sword. I have to say that I am in favour of them, in EMS vehicles. It stops malicious complaints of ' I saw that car doing well over a hundred, blah blah', but it does also show up if the driver was doing something daft.

[Evilgoat]

Aah! That old ploy! Doesn't work though. They have remote mics as well as the handhelds. Its the 'blackbox' data recorders that are fitted that can be a bit of a double edged sword. I have to say that I am in favour of them, in EMS vehicles. It stops malicious complaints of ' I saw that car doing well over a hundred, blah blah', but it does also show up if the driver was doing something daft.

I guess al I can say at this juncture is

oops  :oops:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Aah! That old ploy! Doesn't work though. They have remote mics as well as the handhelds. Its the 'blackbox' data recorders that are fitted that can be a bit of a double edged sword. I have to say that I am in favour of them, in EMS vehicles. It stops malicious complaints of ' I saw that car doing well over a hundred, blah blah', but it does also show up if the driver was doing something daft.

I guess al I can say at this juncture is

oops  :oops:

The black boxes are accurate, when they want to be. I was involved in a 'follow' of a nicked car once, and as I went round a mini roundabout,, well, sort of over it, I dinked the NSF wheel on the kerb. That set the box off, and it was later checked and according to the techy bloke who looked at the data, I was pulling 3.7g when I went 'round' the roundabout. Hmm, in a V6 Mondeo? I think not.
However the onboard GPS that we had was not the best bit of kit. I was out on my old patch, when Control called up to check my location, as they had me plotted at approx 5miles off the coast heading towards Holland! :shock:
They must have bought the system from the same company that makes weapons guidance systems for the US air force!

[att]

Nice to see how this has developed

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Nice to see how this has developed

Perhaps in summary:

There is sometimes an element of truth behind the myth. If in doubt, turn off and take the battery off the handset. :D

[Evilgoat]

I made a certain 'silly noise' at someone that was in my way while not on a call, didnt think anything of it and got hauled up. Now it makes sense.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

The walls have ears, mate! Tetra is supposed to be the all singing, all dancing piece of kit, but being a system that uses a microwave frequency, I don't use it unless I have to.
From what I recall, the Fire and Rescue comms team refused to take it.
But the 'Wonderous, All wise,' Government ( :-& ) insisted that it be taken on. The sets are made by Motorola. I wonder if someone got a bit of a 'bung'?

[att]

I made a certain 'silly noise' at someone that was in my way while not on a call, didnt think anything of it and got hauled up. Now it makes sense.

Don`t we exist in a lovely world

So, let`s see if I am understanding this correctly.
You work for the Govt. in some way, services of some sort.
They have the ability to listen to you and did not tell you.

Just lovely, absolutely wonderful. :roll: