2 or 3?

[SnakeLogic]

Let's just say I was going to so a full-on, soup to nuts off road suspension lift on my Disco.  The cost to do a 2" or a 3" lift is essentially the same, so my main question is:  Which to do?  At what point do the DISadvantages of a lift (extra stress on wheel bearings, top-heavy handling) outweigh the advantages (able to get bigger tyres on to get the diffs a little further off the ground).  

Also, will I lose a lot of the benefits of an "extreme" (ala Scorpion Evolution) lift if I keep the anti-sway bar?  As 90% of my driving is on road, I don't plan on giving up all the creature comforts, but would like to stop plowing a trench with my diffs.

Please be as detailed in your response as possible, as I don't have anyone else to ask.

Thanks, and Happy New Year

[thermidorthelobster]

Hi Snakelogic,

I'm not an expert in this area, so you'll want to wait for somebody to come along who is.  But the obvious question that springs to mind is, are you willing to start chopping the bodywork to accommodate bigger tyres, or do you just want to fit the largest tyres you can with the suspension lift but no body carving?

Also, yours is a 300tdi IIRC?

Cheers, David

[seabo]

I have similar question - have just hydrolocked 300tdi with 2" lift among other mods - now have 3 door v8 - want to transfer as many bits from old one as poss - so thinking of transferring 2" lift then going for 2" body lift as well (not that I know what that entails yet!)  - plan to cut arches (hence 3 door) and go for much bigger tyres than old one - Views? Help? :?

[SnakeLogic]

Mine's a 5 door, so while I'm more than willing to cut up the body (the scratches and dents need company anyway), there's a limit to how far I want to go.  That is to say, I'll hack off some from the wheel arch area, but I don't want to get involved with actually cutting doors, etc.

Basically, I want to get the best off-road performance I can get without sacrificing too much on road drivability and more importantly (since diesel Land Rovers haven't been imported into Japan since 1996) long term reliability.

I've considered giving up on the whole thing, as I need my Disco as a daily driver, but then the weekend comes around and I get chance to get some mud under my wheels, and I wish I had the lift.  If I had the money, I'd most likely have two cars, each one for its intended terrain.  Still waiting on that lottery jackpot to come my way.

[Range Rover Blues]

If you want big tyres I would suggest a combination of about 3" on the springs, no more and then lift the body.

At the back your problems with a lift include

The trailing links need cranking and lengthening as they swing forewards.
The rear A frame swings but a different amount.
The UJs are working harder, at greater angles that are no longer 'matched' so expect the usual rumbling, worse on a worn transmission.
The rear sway bar is a PITA, it swings back as the axle swings forewards, it will flip at the lowest end and then hit the springs.  It needs spacing and/or other mods, which I am working on at the moment.
Brake lines.
The obvious handling issues, the rear end balances on the A frame balljoint, which may also bind, so yes it becomes top-heavy.

Front
Steering castor
Spring platforms and damper mounts distort.
Radius arm monting bushes pushed too hard.
wheelbase is foreshortened.
the unbalanced UJ angles, made much worse by fitting castor correction.
High UJ angle at the gearbox, again worse with CC so go for a TD5 prop and flange.
The front prop hits the sway bar, again spacing it downwards will help.
Brake lines.
Bump steer, slight but it's there.  As my LSE goes up and down on the air springs when parked, the steering wheel moves and it centres in a different place in high profile, so I know this happens.
With extreme lifts the front axle moves sideways, in any case it won't handle as well once the Panhard rod is no longer horizontal.


I've settled for a 2" lift with 235/85R16 on stock rims.  I think much wider and they will float to much on the local mud.  I can still get my back wheels into the wheelarch and as yet they have not touched the bodywork so I have not fitted my extended bump stops.

Full vehicle spec in my profile profile[url/]

[SnakeLogic]

RR Blues,

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I certainly appreciate your taking the time to educate me.

As I value your opinion, would you take a look at this http://www.equipe4x4.com/inglese/ARTICOLO.php?MARCA=LAND&SEZ=KITS&PROD=ULTIMATE%20EXTREME%20KIT and tell me what you think?  

Thanks.

[Range Rover Blues]

That's a big kit, is it within your budget?

Those look like Aluminium front arms, nice.  The QT arms are 40% lighter than standard which help handling by reducing unsrung weight, that said my front wheels have started bouncing on fast turns :shock:

The one good thing with an all-in jit is that you know it should all work together and, at least in someone's opinion, suite your vehicle.

It certainly has all the toys you should need, adjustable everything, you can even adhust rear axle alignment which is handy if you lifted truck has a slight lean, not that it shoulds with all new bushes and springs.

One thing, if you want mega articluation from the front, don't fit the polybushes, fit Defender OEM rubber ones, they are about the softest, softer than standard Disco ones even, provided the alli arms can accept the steel interference bush of the OEM type, it may bust the housing as polybushes arw not interference fit and much more compressible than steel.


One thing missing from the kit is sway bars, quite obviouls a car with this kit on will handle like a barge, by fitting uprated sway bars )(£200 from Scropion for the back) you can control it somewhat but for the type of articulation shown on their sight, sway bars are a no-go. You need to bin them or make them quick-disconnect.  I am looking into the later but don't hold your breath

Design is a compramise, the stock car is jack of all trades, very competant but not a specialist.  Modify it and it becomes master in one area at the expense of others.  That's purely your choice so I can only advise.

It's common for folks to fit a peice at a time, partly becaue of the deapth of their pockets but also to try each mod and see what advantages/penalties it brings, so our trucks are an evolution until we find they will do almost everything we point them at.  For me the next step is way too expensive to even consider so my truck will stay as-is for the foreseeable future, though there are many more extreme trucks about in the club.  Just a shame for you you can't see some of them first-hand.