Richard and Judy

[turtle]

Received a call last night form a friend asking me if I watched Richard and Judy yesterday afternoon, a quick reply "No Should I?"

On yesterdays show they did a report of fake parking tickets being placed on 4x4 owners in London, they seem to target the up market motors BMW X5, P38 Range Rovers etc.

Another anti movement started up?

[turtle]

Just found this


http://www.wastemonsters.org.uk/

Wastemonsters has joined the Alliance Against Urban 4x4s - a group of grassroots campaigns and organisations which is calling for concrete measures to stop giant 4x4s taking over London.

[turtle]

and this one


http://www.stopurban4x4s.org.uk/

[muddyweb]

<chuckle>

"Giant 4x4's"

Most of which are the same size or smaller than the people carriers and estate cars they replaced :-)

Silly silly people

[cowboy]

I should imagine most people complaing about 4x4s have never driven one. We have to pass the emissions test on an m.o.t same as every other vehicle. Don't see them complaining about the amount of room a Bently takes up on the road. I must be exempt anyway cos mines a swb. Dave.

[Vam]

True the 110 CSW does look impossing, but 2 doors down from us they have a great big bloody BMW which takes up just as room as the landy, it's just not as high!

GGrrrrrrr...... Idiots they just don't 'think' do they? #-o

On the plus there was an artical on newsbeat radio1 last week about 4x4's and emmissions - was pleasantly surprised that the conclusion was...

Although some of them are older vehicals (obvious reference to the landrover group) which aren't fitted with the upto date gizmos that reduce pollution, on the whole 4x4s tend to produce no more nasty emmissions than the boyracers in ford festers etc, as (here's the good bit  :lol: )  they tend to be better drivers, and are more fuel effienciency conscience.

First positive 4x4 news thingy I've heard :lol:



Vam

[muddyweb]

In my view, the "Older Vehicles" should be getting tax breaks.

Yes, my 90 has a big engine in it, but it's well within the current legislative limits for emissions....  and more importantly....   the amount of energy and pollution required to make a new "environmentally freindly" vehicle is VAST... way more than my vehicle will churn out in it's life.

My LR is nearly 18 years old....   had I been changing every 3 years for the latest "green" car... I'd have had 6 vehicles !!    Now that isn't more efficient, is it ?

Trouble is, most of what is discussed is not based on fact, or even a passing resemblance to fact... it's based on emotive, headline-grabbing opinion...

We've seen it many times before....  4-star worse for the environment than unleaded !!!   hah !

[Vam]

That'd be a great idea about the tax break, though we have Blair to thank for the stop in Tax exempt status!

I seem to recall that on average it's something like 90% of the pollution caused in a cars average lifetime is done during the manufaturing process, which does make the 'older' vehical least green theory laughable

Also , cars are becoming more 'disposable', the average life span of a car is reducing, as more and more people want 'the latest model'

I think basically people feel guilty about the old cars polution thing, so need  someone else to blame for the pollution when they use their cars, and 4x4 are the obvious target for that guilt.

Vam

[V8MoneyPit]

....   the amount of energy and pollution required to make a new "environmentally freindly" vehicle is VAST... way more than my vehicle will churn out in it's life......

I think the survey you refer to came to the conclusion that it took 18 years of driving a modern family saloon to produce the same harmful emmisions as building it did. I'm with you on this one. Most older cars are well looked after and are therefore producing low harmful emmisions. The problem is all 'old cars' are lumped together by those that need false claims to help their cause. A battered old Sierra and a prestine Morris Minor are hardly in the same league.

Here's another, slightly off topic, stat.... if you fill a modern people carrier and drive it at 56mph, the occupants will breath out more CO2 than the car produces. It may not be true, but what a cracking good claim  :lol:

[davidlandy]

just read their website

what rubbish!

unbelieveable that they are also promoting 'mock' stickers for the borough councils - is this legal?

grrrrrrr

[Colin 009]

I watched this show and these two women one who was from one of the groups and a loony journalist,

where shown up by Quentin Wilson as a couple of idiots. He confirmed that both hated the people who drive these 4x4s more than the cars.

There argument just did not stand up.

[muddyweb]

Of course it didn't stand up.... it can't... it's a fallacy.

They'd have a hard time passing such a law in my view anyway...  for a start, you could challenge it in the court of human rights... it's arguably discriminatory... and that's before you get into the whole tangled mess of what a '4x4' is...  do they ban the Allroad, the Subaru Impreza ?

[Range Rover Blues]

There is some truth about the amount of polution caused in building a car outweighing the polution it causes in it's life.  Can't remember the exact statistic but I don't think you're too far off. Restoration is by far the most environmentally friendly method of recycling, but then the environment isn't the real issue, if the government wanted to save the planet they should ban cars altogether, trouble is motorists prop up the economy way too much and it's the manufacture of new cars and the scrapping of old ones that help part us from our hard earned and keep that money circulating, every time it changes hands of course they put their fingers in the till.
As for that cobblers about massive 4x4s, my Nissan Micra is 2 inches narrower than our RRC, and it's emissions are as bad, if not worse, than a landie running on LPG.

[Range Rover Blues]

Just been reading their website, what a sack of s***e

To answer their comments on why I need to drive a 4x4
1, I am an advanced driver, a qualified ADI, but that hasn't stopped 3 people hitting me this year alone, even in the driving school car, it's the other guy you have to watch for.

2,I don't have a large family, I have 2 large dogs and a mountian bike, I'm also 6'2"

3,The weight of my 4x4 increases my stopping distance, rubbish.  The weight gives me better grip.  My car stops well within the recomended stopping distances shown in the highway code and has a current MOT.

4, I drive a car converted to LPG, it's size allows me to do this safely and it causes less polution than the minivan you would rather I drove.

5, I go off-roading, that's why I have an off-roader!
Glass is the only organisation I know about that actively restore the countryside (voluntarily) and repair rights of way.  Walkers damage the countryside, so do cyclists and the worst culprit-horses.  Never seen a hiker with a sack of limestone going up the peak district with a shovel though!

6,No MPV has as good a towing capacity as a Rangie, disco or Defender, plus the 4 wheel drive makes it much safer in the wet, towing or not.  Especially as most MPVs are front wheel drive (oh dear, oh dear-oh dear).

7,I do tow regularly with my 4x4, precisely because I can't trust other people to do the job for me, and it's my right to make that choice.

8,My 4x4 is not japanese, it's british, built in Solihull and maintained with british made parts (if you believe the adds)

9, Ok I don't fish, but are you going to tell me how I can spend my spare time now

10,I'm not rich, hand up those of you who are? no, good.  I spend my hard earned on our Rangie, because we have dogs we don't want to go abroad on our holidays so we drive a 4x4 instead.

11, yes it is my right to drive what I choose and as I pay about £8.50 in tax for every £10 spent on fuel I'm putting those kids you keep mentioning through the state school system, as well as paying for the hospital they were born in, some thanks wouldn't go amiss

Now, I want to know how many of these tree hugging hippies with their cornflake packet facts take foreign holidays.  Did you all know it takes roughly 1 TONNE of fuel PER SEAT to get an airliner off the ground?  I don't use that in a year, I can't afford it.  But then I have to pay fuel duty on my fuel, airlines don't.

[George]

=D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>

AMEN!!

[Range Rover Blues]

Wonder if the people of Looe mind me owning a 4x4.

[Vam]

Just checked out their supporters page......


It's empty :lol:  They're still looking :twisted:


Vam

[davidlandy]

mmm...

thinks we needs some stickers to show our unhappiness with this, any ideas?

[V8MoneyPit]

'Ban London buses, too big, too thirsty, polute too much and kill people if you step out in front of them'
Maybe you'ld need a rather long bumper for that one!

or

'Save our pavements, ban ramblers from London streets'

[diesel_boy]

:shock: HOLY STINKIN POO :shock:  i would love to find out who thay are think ill put on some sandles and grow a beard and get a bike and go and meet them  then at ther agm  turn up in monster  and say i got converted by some 4x4 lads and it so much fun that thay would have to try it    :lol:  :lol:  if only

[Range Rover Blues]

How about a proactive response, I was so tempted to fill in their petition to Red Ken with a cartoon name and address, anything to discredit this bunch of loosers.  Like you say, no supporters, but I bet if we all gave them a peice of our minds it wouldn't see the light of day.  (perhaps just the smallest piece of all our minds might be more than they can cope with?)

[Vam]

I must admit, my initial reaction was to 'join' them after all... 4x4's should be free! it's cruel to keep them tethered in urban areas, they should be freely roaming the country side....

I'll get me coat. :oops:  :lol:

Thing is, it seems to be run by daft women who gave up work to bring up 'Tarquin' and feel that they now also have to personaly save the planet.
Trust me, there is no reasoning with these types, they are on a personal and private crusade, logic and thought does NOT come into it

Bit of luck they'll get bored and have another baby (good job I'm a female this is turing into a bit of a sexest post :lol:  :twisted: )

I'd only really get worried if politcians seriously jump on the band wagon, but then which of them stick to there polices?  :)

As for the fliers - I don't believe it to be illegal to stick 'flyers' on cars, but copying or impersonating official council documents, might be something there?

Vam

[V8MoneyPit]

I think the sticking flyers on cars is not in itself illegal, but it is a littering issue, which is. Or at least it is covered by local bylaws.