Starter motor / Fly wheel

[zulublue]

Hi please forgive me if the technical terms are incorrect.

I will make the story as brief as possible, I am now on my third engine and 5th fitting within 2 months, and best part of it its only been off roaded once, when I got my RRC I knew the engine was duff, so I got one off fleabay for £375 and got my fingers burnt plus £450 for fitting, a good friend of mine donated me a nice 60k mile efi for xmas, this engine is now on its third fitting, in once then could not line up the torque converter, so out it came and in again, I was down at the garage when they were trying to get her going, the starter motor started jumping and missing, sounds like the teeth have gone they said, that will be another £300 for fitting, anyway after a short while one of the so called mechanics said that the starter motor was not in right, fingers crossed I hoped, he then said that one of the bolts holding the starter in had sheared off!!!! by luck he managed to get the bit out that was stuck in the engine, this bit was about half an inch long, he said that the starter must have been jumping out, great i thought problem solved, once this had been fitted back correctly we tried again, and you may have guessed it, same again.
I agreed to have it fixed as he said it was probably just old age, then tonight I dropped in unexpectingly and they had just taken out the old fly wheel, I was expecting to see teeth missing, but no, they were just worn down and very shiney, but on an angle, so my thoughts are that the starter motor was not done up tight had kicked back, sheared the head off the bolt, and sat on an angle, then worn the fly wheel away, what I need to know does this make sence? I am not a mechanic, but neither a fool I would like some feedback please before I go back to the garage and give them what for, there are 3 pics attached, sorry to go on a bit.

Mark.

[Rossko]

You may well be right that loose/broken starter mounting bolts have allowed that wear to occur, but I feel its unlikely to have only just happened.  That widespread wear looks more like the gear ring has been rubbing against the starter for some time, rather than just one spot chewed up.

Are they using the starter that went with the engine?  It's not clear if your EFi engine is an 'upgrade' to an older carb car.  There was a starter motor change to a geared type at some date; I've no idea if the meshing is the same or not.

cheers
Ross Kennedy

[drmike]

Sounds like a very expensive RRC to me. You're sure the garage knows what it's doing? I can't recall if you take the starter off when taking the engine out or not. I think you do so they must have been able to inspect teh flywheel before fitting the engine.

To be fair to the garage do they take engines out much? Many don't so that this could all be unfamiliar to them.

You'd have been better off buying an engine crane!

I hope it all works out.

Mike

[Range Rover Blues]

Starter can stay with the engine, one of the few I know that does that in fact.  The wear is very unusual, the teeth arte chewed up in small areas, suggesting perhaps that the engine like to come to rest in one place which is common on 4-pots more than multi-cyoinder and vee-engines but I think that's what you can see there, anyway it's quite clearly not messhing fully, either the ring gear is in the wrong place or the starter is.

With pre-engaged starters the motor should not run at full spedd until the drive gear is fully meshed, if it were one starter I'd say check this, but TBH I just don't get what they are playing at, it's not rocket science, there may be something in thinking they have run it with the motor loose but you would need to check for witness marks in the ali around the starter and that means DIY.

what do the teeth on the starter(s) look like?

[zulublue]

Thanks all,

This all happened over a 24hr period, one day ok the next it was missing, first how can the top of the bolt get smached off if it was done up tightly?  it ripped the head off and left about half an inch in the engine, do you know if this possible? he said that the starter was not in straight, so my question if the starter was not done up correctly, would it have the power to kick back and take the head off the bolt? I have not looked at the starter as I was just passing, I will try to get a look.

[drmike]

How can the starter not be in straight? I'm a total muppet but I'm confident that I couldn't get the bolts done up right and the starter out of line yet not obvioulsy loose. Sounds more like they sheared the bolt at some stage to me.

In your shoes I'd be losing confidence in the garage!

Mike

[Range Rover Blues]

The starter holds in on 2 bolts, if one was loose then the other would be doing all the work and could be overstressed as a result.  The starter could then be driving slightly skewed and may chew up the teeth as seen here.  I would expect witness marks on the engine flaneg where the motor mounts though, it would also have souonded awful, if the poor earth had not caused a starting problem.  The ring gear didn't get like that overnight though :?

Difficult call :?