LPG Range Rover - Am I Deluding myself?

[JasonW]

Hi all,

I'm considering the purchase of a LPG Rangie (Classic Vogue 3.9) as I need to replace my Series III with something that can cover distances with a degree of speed.

I'm considering a spend of circa £2k for a vehicle with around 100k on the clock. The main reason is a trip to Spain in June towing a trailer, probably Brian James type with some furniture etc.

The question is - am I being too optimistic expecting a vehicle of this age to make the trip without any problems? I appreciate its difficult to answer not knowing the provenance of  the car but I've read with some concern of the overheating issues surrounding some models, so didn't want to hit the mid-summer heat of Spain with something that's going to leave me stranded on the motorways.

[Range Rover Blues]

Thing is what you want to do is well within the abilities of the car, it won't be straining after all.

What you do need to assure yourself is that the car is maintained in a good state of repair and so capable of the task it was designed for.

If that means chucking a pile of cash at some new parts then so be it.

But I tow my caravan (soon to be replaced, the other one went back) with my LSE and yes it overheats a little but it's never let me down.  I regularly tow cars with it too and now I'm starting to get mechanical niggles but driving all that way in any car you should be sure that it's sound before you go.

BTW, have you thought of a Diesel for the trip instead, Diesel is cheaper on the continent and especially in Spain.

[JasonW]

Thanks for the reply. The thing is, I get staff rates on LPG which is why its so attractive to me even though I'll only be able to fill up on LPG in England and France.

[Range Rover Blues]

Ah, then you'll be fitting BIG tanks :D

Do you have the car already? then start going over it with a fine toothed comb.  Propshafts and UJS, wheel bearings, brakes and disks.

Under the bonnet, I'd suggest an oil change now and agin before you go, so your putting clean oil in a cleanish engine, oil change all the transmission and fix any leaks.

as for the cooling a thorough checkof the rad, if it looks suspect replace it or get it recored with something bigger.

Fit electric fans, if for no other reason than they save a bit of fuel.

You can increase the efficiency of the cooling system with water wetter, Merlin Motorsport sell it as does my mate on E-Bay.  Fit a new 'stat and check all the hoses.

How old is the LPG and are you aware that continental LPG might contain Butane as well as Propane, your car will run better and produce more power :D

It might run like a cow when you come home :(

Finally think carefully about any accessories that might stop airflow through the front of your car, even spotlights.

[JasonW]

Nope. Haven't bought one yet. This is a germ of an idea to keep my dog happy with the side benefit of almost paying for itself with the trip to Spain.

I'm surprised at your comment regarding the butane/propane mix as I'd have thought it would produce more power with propane?

Daft question probably but is there much of a disadvantage with the slush box compared to manual when off road? I'm used to a manual Series III with lots of levers to confuse myself with so any mod cons may be useful. As for your engine overhaul 'lite' suggestion I have some experience of the V8 from a P6 that I ran many years ago so I should be able to manage that.

[Range Rover Blues]

IIRC Butane has the higher calorific value but freezws at about the sametmep as water, so LPG is predominantly Propane, if not entirely in this country as the suppliers will not ship it mixed I'm told.

Auto box, well I've just about got sick of the old Sherpa van box, though the R380 is nice so I'm going auto this summer, in my off-roader.  No-one has even tried to talk me out of it yet.  

I used to really hate autos but the 4-speed is a nice unit and it does make better use of the power in the V8, especially in the LSE. :D

[clairedave]

hi we have just decided to seel our rangie, see the for sale and get in touch if you are interested.thanks clairedave

[JasonW]

Right, I've lowered my sights somewhat as I keep getting messed around with the higher end RRs I've seen so I'm looking at one this weekend for £1500.00

My check list is as follows:

1. Rot - inner wings, sills, boot, rear door arches and tailgate.

2. Service history - self explanatory.

3. Wheel bearings - yank the wheel and check for play?

4. Engine - check for smoke.

5. Drive - check brakes, steering and acceleration for strange noises.

6. LPG system. D'oh! No idea other than thinking that a Tartarini system is pretty good? What am I looking for? A bit embarrassing working for the company I do but I've not looked at second hand or LPG vehicles for years so how can I spot a bad 'un? Also, these torpedo tanks - do they get in the way of mild off roading or do I need to install rock sliders?

Assuming its reasonable I was going to get it serviced and change all the wheel bearings as a matter of course plus the modifications RRB suggested.

It will be subjected to heat whilst towing in a hotter country so I don't want to be dealing with Manuel in his tow truck!

Thanks for your help so far.

[Lucy1978]

to put the distance in perspective, we drove 40000km down africa in a 27 year old 101 with no major mechanical problems.  Driving a few thousand down to Spain on good roads with (if you're cunning) European RAC / AA cover shouldn't be a problem.

[mike142sl]

Also, these torpedo tanks - do they get in the way of mild off roading or do I need to install rock sliders?

Rock sliders won't help with these really. The ones on my old RRC reduced the clearance a little but didn't really get in the way. One of the brackets broke once but that was due to a deep rut along a track that was harder (as in not as soft) than expected.

[JasonW]

Yeah, alright Chris. Puts it into perspective but I'm coming from a Series III which would probably make the journey albeit at a much reduced speed!

There are also some great creeks and river beds to explore down there, plus I'm used to the reliability of modern cars.

Apparently, there is a proposal to link Spain and Morocco in the near future which would make a non-stop trip from London to Cape Town possible - now that would be fun.

[Lucy1978]

non-stop trip from London to Cape Town possible - now that would be fun.

It's already possible theoretically if Isreal and The Sudan had better political relations.

One of the biggest factors I've found on long trips is time constraints, if you're not under any time pressure and something breaks is not a problem, you just park up for another day and sort it out.  Makes for a much more relaxed trip.

[petergalileo]

make sure the LPG has a certificate as some insurers will insist on it.  If you go for an injected rangie make sure the motor starts and always starts on petrol then automatically switches to gas.  Some kits designed for carb engines get fitted to EFIs and they start and run on gas, the injectors need some petrol for lubrication.

Try and get one that has a guage to tell you how much gas is left in the tank(s).  

Test drive it one LPG and on petrol, switch between the two, you should notice virtually no power loss on a good EFI fitted system, if on carbs you will notice some loss of power.

As for tanks, normally they fit 2 40 litre tanks underneath, some LSE range rovers have slightly longer tanks as there is more room.  Theres also a tank that replaces the petrol tank, there will then be a very small tank in one of the rear wings as a "get you to a garage" supply.

[Range Rover Blues]

Also, these torpedo tanks - do they get in the way of mild off roading or do I need to install rock sliders?

Rock sliders won't help with these really. The ones on my old RRC reduced the clearance a little but didn't really get in the way. One of the brackets broke once but that was due to a deep rut along a track that was harder (as in not as soft) than expected.

As long as thay are good chassis mounted tanks and not hung from the floor then you will be alright.

[JasonW]

Thanks for the information. Any ideas as to the complexity and guestimated cost for replacing the inner front wings? One example I looked at today, had rust at the top of the inner wing where it joins the outer - one good prod with a screwdriver would have opened up a hole.

Admittedly, I walked away but I'm going to be lucky to find a pristine example.

[petergalileo]

replacement inner wings easy enough to get hold of, took 2 of us a day to do.Its a common problem and has recently become an mot test item so there should be a few out there that have had them replaced anyway.

[Range Rover Blues]

Recently become an MOT item? is that purely becasue of the extended zone for corrosion around the body mount, now 300mm IIRC.

The top face of the inner wing is not really testable as it's non-structural.

[JasonW]

Thanks for your input so far. I ended up with a MY 1989 Vogue SE with LPG which has had a new engine/gearbox 15,000 miles ago, 1" lift springs with new shocks, steering box guard and heaps of other stuff with bills showing the last owner as having spent over £11k on the car in the last two years! Eek.

The one area I want to address is the LPG tank which is mounted in the boot and only has a 55 litre capacity and I'd like to change this for either a larger capacity doughnut tank or twin torpedo tanks. Can anyone recommend a converter in the Surrey area? Any ideas on cost?

[Yoshi]

Unless you desperately need room in your boot then dont go with torpedoes, cos if you go off road there is too much risk of damage!

[Dr Strangeglove]

Just looking to replace the rad on my 3.9 EFi Auto.  I have had quotes from £162 and up (includes VAT but not including delivery).  If you are going to the hotter places then just check to see if your rad was included within the 11k of repairs.  I ended up overheating mine and I ended up blowing the head gasket - not a nice job and over £250 in parts and skimming not including the labour - you do not want to be doing that in Spain!

Has anyone any suggestions of where to find radiators at a reasonable price (I am located in Bury so around that sort of area), though I did not think the £162 was too bad.

[JasonW]

Thanks. Yes, the radiator was replaced which is just as well because the one thing its lacking is A/C so it will be windows open all the way!

[JasonW]

Well, the short answer is that I wasn't deluding myself and it made it there and back.

However...

I managed to knock out the pinion oil seals (I think it was me) by grounding it out in a river bed so not really the car's fault. Managed to get the wife to bring a couple of spares out with her and the local garage fitted them for me for less than twenty quid - how's that for a bargain?

The transfer/gearbox wasn't boiling all the way down and back apart from when it reached the cooler climes of the north when it operated at normal temperatures. Consequently, I didn't fancy too much off roading in 45 degrees ambient in case it wrecked the 'box plus I managed to damage the diffs anyway.

But...

experienced a really weird problem when we parked up near Biarritz. It wouldn't start despite there being plenty of juice in the battery. Luckily I managed to convince the mechanic to walk a few kilometres up this beach track and after trying everything he stuck the battery booster on and it fired up.

It did the same thing in Rouen but I managed to get it going and it started to stutter badly near Dunkerque and its already done it again this morning. Jump leads/additional battery power seem to sort it out.

Any ideas?

[Rossko]

Really random guess at the non-start splutter - the ignition amp on the side of the distributor goes temperature sensitive and gives low output. The extra jump start volts might well give it enough boost to fire up.

The good news that will likely go to a solid fault soon and be easier to find  :shock:

Or have you found the problem yet?

cheers, Ross K

[JasonW]

Ross, unfortunately the problem is completely random and naturally hasn't replicated itself during a stint at the garage. I'll check your idea.

[Dave Rogers]

you can get a re core for about £100.00 but can pick up a rad for less for a v8 110 or 90/disco, downside is you'll have to swap the pipe inlet and outlets around using a brazing torch. Easy job but time consuming to get it right.
Try Cropper and Jones on the Wirral, great bunch of ppl and very LR friendly

[Range Rover Blues]

Jason, is it a 3.5 or a 3.9 V8? that makes a bit of difference to how much a Rad costs as the 3.9 includes an oil cooler.

I've got a good 3.5 rad spare somewhere.

[JasonW]

Its a 3.9. However, the issue is with the transfer box only which seems to get exceedingly hot although it dealt with temperatures in excess of 40 degrees without any problems.

The electrical gremlin turned out to be a dud battery (possibly a dead cell) although it turned over well, it didn't quite have enought oomphh to get it started.

[Range Rover Blues]

Mine won't start if the battery is a bit duff.

My manual gearbox has an oil cooler fitted, I'm told that not all manual cars did, for the T-Box there are oils on the market that claim to help reduce oil temp by being more conductive.