Please can I have a 4x4 permit

[C C]

Quote from themoneypages.com  :shock:


http://www.themoneypages.com/ccstory/19250/84/Gas_guzzlers_face_threat_of_permits.htm

"There is much controversy surrounding 4x4s, especially considering the increased levels of environmental awareness shown by the average Brit, but whatever your stance on the argument, research has shown that over half of all adults would back the introduction of permits on 4x4s


Women take a tougher line than men on the issue and only 30 per cent of Brits disagree with the introduction of this type of vehicle tax, although another 19 per cent choose to sit on the fence and remain more or less non-plussed about it all.

Sales of 4x4 vehicles fell by 6.2 per cent in 2006 to total 175,805 – although a further proportion are sold second hand as the price for a used 4x4 continues to plummet.

Councils are also taking a stand, one example being Richmond Council in South-West London which has trebled the cost of parking permits to £300.

Those living in the Midlands, East Anglia and London are the least likely to back the introduction of permits, possibly telling of the areas in which the most of the vehicles are sold, whilst those in the South West are all for the environmentally aligned move.

Jason Wyer-Smith of Virgin Money Car Insurance comments: “The caricature of the Chelsea Tractor is a bit overdone as many people genuinely need 4x4s for work or because they live in rural areas. It’s also worth remembering that some 4x4s are no more environmentally harmful than a large family car.

“It is clear that more and more consumers are taking a keener interest in the environment and starting to consider cars in terms of their carbon emissions. Permits to own 4x4s sound draconian but with Local Authorities increasingly using punitively priced parking permits to try to curb their use, perhaps the introduction of the 4x4 ownership permit isn’t so far off.”"

[Bunnie]

are they then going to introduce mesures as to what qualifies as a 4x4?

many larger saloon/luxury type cars use the 4 wheel drive solution

[Manicminer]

Slightly off topic, but on the same site.
http://www.themoneypages.com/ccstory/19100/102/Van_drivers_face_extortionate_tax_hikes.htm

[Drift]

I use 2wd on tarmac does that make me exempt :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Ste

[zebidee]

Okay - so you introduce a "permit" system with some way for people who really need a 4x4 to get a permit for free. Perhaps accredited organisations like the NFU could certify this need.

So what counts as needing a 4x4 - we use ours for towing a horse trailer and regularly driving across fields at horse shows. We're members of the Welsh Pony Society so perhaps they'd certify the issue of a free permit?

All you'd end up with though is people joining the BHS (British Horse Society) or BSJ (British Showjumping) or some such organisation without owning the horse to get the certificate.

Sounds like a pretty dumb idea to me.

[laser_jock99]

I use 2wd on tarmac does that make me exempt :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Ste

Likewise I'm 2wd on tarmac- it's b*ll*cks and totally unenforcable. With anything like this you have to look at the hidden agendas. Coming from the source it does they're probably promoting the idea so they can hike up insurance premiums (which is already going to happen BTW).

[chris.hunt22]

I like the thinking there, having to be affiliated with a club not to pay these charges, I thought that using postcodes would be a good idea but then everyone would probably register their cars at other peoples houses with rural postcodes!!

[datalas]

it's utterly unenforcable, what qualifies as a 4x4 ?  

So, we now need a permit for every jag, audi as well as every landrover, half of the transits, some of the fords ...

it's a ridiculous idea led by a bunch of newspapers who aught to remember that their job is to report on the news, not invent it  

[Magnum335]

Is it a permit to buy or permit to drive?

It would have to be a blanket measure if anything, as you would either get poeple going to non permit areas to buuy them, or if you lived in those areas without permits, would you be allowed to drive in permit required areas?

[HSimmo]

What a massive load of [bauble].

It gets me hot under the collar everytime I read "gaz-guzzling 4x4's"
I get 30mpg from mine. Why not attack Focus ST's which do about 24mpg or any other hot hatch for that matter.

Its really a war on school run mums in V8 Range Rover's which everyone else who drives a 4x4 has been caught up in.

[missmud]

What a massive load of bauble.

It gets me hot under the collar everytime I read "gaz-guzzling 4x4's"
I get 30mpg from mine. Why not attack Focus ST's which do about 24mpg or any other hot hatch for that matter.

Its really a war on school run mums in V8 Range Rover's which everyone else who drives a 4x4 has been caught up in.

My last vehicle was just a normal 1600 car and i get a lot more to the gallon out  of my pajero!!
The only thing that cost's me more is the tax and insurance   , i need my pajero to tow my caravan...
Wouldn' swap it for the world.

[Range Rover Blues]

Like Datals siad it's just utter c***. how can you discriminate against one type of vehicle, where do yo put the cut-off?

Subaruy imprezzas can drink way more fuel than my LSE, they can't tow a horsebox or carry 2 big dogs but they are not persecuted like this, it's rifdiculous.

[Llanigraham]

One of my customers came into the shop today and proudly boasted that he has joined the "Environmental Destroyers".
He has bought a brand new......




















































Fiat Panda 4x4!!!

[paul_humphreys]

Okay - so you introduce a "permit" system with some way for people who really need a 4x4 to get a permit for free. Perhaps accredited organisations like the NFU could certify this need.

So what counts as needing a 4x4 - we use ours for towing a horse trailer and regularly driving across fields at horse shows. We're members of the Welsh Pony Society so perhaps they'd certify the issue of a free permit?

All you'd end up with though is people joining the BHS (British Horse Society) or BSJ (British Showjumping) or some such organisation without owning the horse to get the certificate.

Sounds like a pretty dumb idea to me.

I NEED my 4x4 for Green Laning.

Paul

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

When is this going to stop? I am getting seriously fed up with all this Government sponsored stereotyping. When is this country going to wake up and say enough is enough?
I am usually quite tolerant of others views, I have to be with my job. But I am now getting to the point where anybody who comes up to me and starts having a go at me because of what I drive and where I drive it, they are going to get a very short answer which will not do any favours for the image of 4x4 drivers.
I am getting to the end of my tether with all of this.
I am told that beer is bad for me. My choice to drink it.
I am told that it is bad to smoke. I know that, my money, my choice.
I am told my car is wrong. My choice. I paid for the car, the tax, the insurance and the fuel.
I have seen my country pulled into a war that was both pointless and futile and that has cost the lives of people who should not have been caught up in it.
I have seen this country's ability to stand up for itself, support itself and govern itself, being sold down the river to a bunch of Eurocrat politicians with no back bone.
It is all wrong.
Do we have to take this for much longer?

[gtomo2]

What he said ^. I am fed up of the blinked stance the band wagon is on. Why does someone give the press the "real truth" about 4x4 and carbon etc and then print it for us all to see. Its my life and i will do with it what i want i dont want some unknowen brussels so called emp telling me what i can and can not do.

[barnhill4x4]

What he said ^. I am fed up of the blinked stance the band wagon is on. Why does someone give the press the "real truth" about 4x4 and carbon etc and then print it for us all to see. Its my life and i will do with it what i want i dont want some unknowen brussels so called emp telling me what i can and can not do.

   I agree, something needs to be done to stop this biased reporting. How about we design a flyer, we all print out a couple and deliver them in the local area or even just the street you live in. I will do 200 at least.
   Imagine the coverage we could achieve, and would most likely get in the press.

[Defender]

Perhaps we should be pushing for permits for all sports or performance cars. :lol:
Only people who need these type of vehicles should get permits.
After all, who needs a car that will do 100 odd MPH when we have a speedlimit of 70 MPH. Oh, and these types of vehicles are hardly fuel efficient. Even my fathers Mondeo drinks more fuel than my Defender, takes up more room on the road than my motor & probably has a top speed of over 130 MPH. :(bigangry):

Rant over.

[Magnum335]

Like Datals siad it's just utter c***. how can you discriminate against one type of vehicle, where do yo put the cut-off?

Subaruy imprezzas can drink way more fuel than my LSE, they can't tow a horsebox or carry 2 big dogs but they are not persecuted like this, it's rifdiculous.

To be fair an impreza can tow horse boxes and they return about 38 mpg when driven gently. I know cos i have done it! The estate version will  easily accomodate two dogs, not huge ones though!.  
Drive anything like a mong and it will give you bad mpg (except the new golf r32!!)

[Horness]

I thought the whole argument was towards being environmentally friendly.

Based on that - how can you have a permit based on drive or vehicle size?  Surely to be an honest environment saver it has to be based on fuel type, emissions and mpg.

This then means that ANY vehicle falling into a category whereby it's emissions (tested during an MOT) are too high, and it's average MPG are too low requires a permit, or "classification".  This would also mean as a vehicle gets older, it can move into this classification if it fails these tests.

I accept that a 28-30 average MPG from my TDi is not the best, and V8 owners get even less.  However many 4x4's do in fact have a higher MPG than the many sports hatches on the road, and probably have equal or less emissions.

It's a 4x4-tax nothing more.  It has nothing to do with the environment, and everything to do with money and narrow-minded opinions.

[Magnum335]

Well said that man.

[Thrasher]

So I'm not allowed to own a 4x4 that can tow my caravan without any loss of MPG ... they can stuff that <censored>

Makes me sick ... Dad has an Avensis - does very well solo, crap towing....I have a big twin axle and when I tow my MPG IMPROVES, his halves ..... go figure  :twisted:

[missroadrage]

I was talking about this to my Mum at the weekend & she amused me by saying people like me who use their 4x4 for what it was designed for are OK in her eyes it's the school run Mum's she hates.

I was impressed by the car wash up the road aswell - they have 2 price lists one for cars & one for 4x4's. I went in and asked for the combination of cleaning I wanted - on the 4x4 price list at £8.50

The woman informed me mine wasn't a 4x4 it was only car price (it's the longer ones that are 4x4's she said)

Do you think she would put that in writing for the Government - a SWB Pajero is not a 4x4  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Thrasher]

We always told you Pajeros were not real 4x4's ;-)

There's the proof!

[missroadrage]

We always told you Pajeros were not real 4x4's ;-)

There's the proof!

Well it managed to come down Stanage - you bringing Baggy to Derbyshire next time then?  :P  (cheeky so & so)

Would save you having to MOT Piglet  :D

[Thrasher]

I'm sure Baggy could go down Stanage .....

[missroadrage]

I'm sure Baggy could go down Stanage .....

That sounds like something that needs to be seen to be believed - cameras at the ready  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[jjsaul]

ok so we're  trying to do it on a scale of environmental impact

i bet exclusions won't be made for those of us running on cleaner fuels such as LPG!!
so much for reduced road tax on LPG vehicles...i aint seen it yet!
 

[orbspeed1]

Another much over looked fact 4x4 tend to last longer as built that little bit tougher.(theres still series landy's on the road)

How many of you have fixed ur moter with second hand parts (probably most of the 90/110 and series drivers)

Will probably be ok/safe to put back on the road after a mild bump/acident(recently down my mates workshop he was rebuilding a landy after it hit a polo that pulled out infront of it. the polo was a rightoff)

My freelander does better mpg than my parents 307 1.6 or a 2l mondeo for example even better than my old mondeo as it was the st24 2.5v6

Its shorter (inc spare wheel) than my old r reg mondeo salon by 18.8 cm (that 7in to the older readers) the mondeo estate off that year is 30.3cm longer????????

Ok I know mines not the bigest most evil off the 4x4's but it is a popular one a middle of the road one but so is a 2l mondeo and a 1.6 307 they are also middle of the road .

So which should be persacuted???  

Niether we already get stung by the tax on the fuel we use.

And for the idiots that say we too big and cant see past us BACK OFF ur driving too close and yes my tow bar will make a mess of your car when I brake suddenly for that cat than ran out in front of me then magicaly disapeared into the bushes/line of parked cars?????????????????

[Elmo]

There's no real point in arguing this logically as its all about populist politics and 4x4 vehicles are an easy target. Pure & simple. And our wonderful democracy will do precisely what it likes regardless of majority opinion.

I have discussed this in the local area with anyone who wanted to have the discussion, and have always won it through reason and logic. Governments care naught for reason and logic, only votes and polls.

So like most I will continue to pay for my choice of vehicle - Dear Mr Blair best bring a few big lads with you when the day comes you want to take it off me ;)