Rope or Strap?

[gords]

There seems to be two options - rope or strap - ignoring kinetic and winches.

Are there particular reasons for choosing one rather than the other?

What sort of spec should I look for (length, capability, etc)?

Where can I order one for next day delivery?

[strapping young lad]

i only use straps just cos they are easier to store, and seem to be stronger

and also cos i took advice from a seasoned offroader on what to get  

[gords]

so, how long is yours

[strapping young lad]

ask the wife

long enough  

[strapping young lad]

i think ive got 2 10mtr ones and one 5 mtr ones (or the other way around)

and a bridle for recovery so the pull stress is distributed across the front of the car

got 4 shackles

and thats it really

[Henry Webster]

I've no doubt you've done the subject to death, but why ignoring kinetic?

I wouldn't go anywhere without mine it is the best way to recover vehicles in my opinion.  Yes there are some huge forces, but as long as you bear that in mind and are sensible then it can be the most efficient and even gentlest way of recovery!

I also carry an 8 metre strap (not in the rally car), but only use it for towing.


H

[Henry Webster]

There is of course the kinetic strap option, but I haven't seen one of those for a few years!

H

[gords]

I've no doubt you've done the subject to death, but why ignoring kinetic?

Basically, I'm new to all this and after reading how to use and not use kinetic ropes I got a tad scared 8-[

I'll maybe consider them later when I feel I know what the f**k I'm doing

[strapping young lad]

with the kinetic rope you are relying on the fact that both recovery points will take the strain

you cannot guarantee this, as if they are not the results could be deadly.

at least with a non elastic strop if something breaks the distance it will travel wont be near you or your car

[datalas]

Kinetic ropes are very usefull, but as has been said they can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

The trouble with them I find is that there is always an unknown quantity in a recovery, either the person you're towing, or the person who's towing you.  Sadly you might not know how secure his recovery points are..  Having seen tow hitches become detached during a recovery I'm cautious about their use.

Then again, I saw someone get ready to snatch recover a 90 by looping a strop over the spare wheel on the back door...

I say "get ready", I wasn't hanging around to see the outcome :(

[Henry Webster]

I agree I would only use it between vechicles and attachments that I trusted and I am quite happy to turn down a tow if I didn't trust someone or their kit.  

In fact the last time I did it took three hours winching in a blizzard to get us out, where a quick snatch to start with would probably have done the job!  But the vehicle that stopped to offer us a snatch had a scruffy strap wrapped around a std LR drop plate and was suggesting we attached our KERR to that - no thanks!  He couldn't understand why we turned down the offer!

BUT I do believe that kinetic ropes can actually be safer and more gentle when used with a bit of thought.  Just because the rope is elastic doesn't mean you have to fly off in a hurry and use all that kinetic energy.  A KERR allows you to be much more gentle with your tow and build up the energy if you have problems.

I have always used KERRs and whilst they can be hugely dangerous can also be very effective and safe.  I actually find winches more spooky!

H

[datalas]

winches ....

<shudder>

you mean the devil's own slice and dice tool :)

there's a place for everything, and I can't think of any bit of equipment (with the possible exception of biscuits) that haven't got some attached scare stories, usually of the magnitude of "well, I once heard a tale of a bloke that saw a chap get recovered, and half way through the rope snapped and opened up a portal to the seventh circle of hell, letting loose demons, hellhounds and paul daniels"

Still, if you are unsure of *any* bit of equipment, you shouldn't use it, it's as simple as that.   If you don't trust yourself with a KER, then you probably shouldn't use one.  Same goes for anything, winches, hi-lifts, chains, turfors even a normal bit of over strenghened bailing twine....

[strapping young lad]

personally if i think im going to get stuck needlessly then i wont go into it


so

if you avoid it then u wont get stuck
 

[muddyweb]

If you are looking at vehicle-vehicle recovery, and aren't likely to get into the levels of 'stuck-ness' where a kinetic is useful, then I would advise getting a decent recovery rope.

The problem with straps is that there is very little give in them, which can give you some nasty jolts, especially if you are towing.

My advice, get a decent 4-6 tonne capacity nylon rope.

[Ben]

I've got a couple of nylon non-stretchy ropes, and a couple of short strops that I use as bridles...

Towed me successfully twice on road when the head gasket blew (both times).

Also been used to good effect off road.

Cheers

Ben

[Andy the Landy]

so, how long is yours

Size doesnt matter - if it can fill a pram it works :twisted:

[Eeyore]

:-k Maybe, I'm missing a huge trick here, but why would a KERR have to increase the loading on your anchoring points? Isn't that just down to the energy created by the vehicle doing the recovering (mass, speed etc)?

If a KERR is used as a normal recovery strop / rope, then I think the elasticity it provides will reduce the rate of loading (strain rate) to the anchor points (it's what they were designed to do), even if the total load applied will be no different.

Okay, if you're tearing off across the fells with a slack KERR and stuck 110 on t'other end (which many folk think is the only way to use a KERR) then yes, you will apply massive loads to the anchor points and things are likely to go ping, but the KERR will decrease the rate of strain being applied to those points.

So, if you use a KERR for recovery purposes as you would a strop, it's probably more gentle then using a less dynamic medium.

I guess the big problem is the energy that the KERR will store under load - if an anchor does go, it could be extremely dangerous (winching protocols would have to apply).

They can also be a lot more expensive!

However you recover - just be safe!

Just a tuppence.

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[muddyweb]

The biggest issue I have found with using a KERR for "normal" recovery is that they are too long.   They are quite long at rest, then you start to stretch it, and you can end up 10-15m away from the vehicle you are trying to pull.

Plus, as you say.. it's an expensive bit of kit if you just want it for the occasional 'tug'

[Henry Webster]

Thanks Eeyore, that is exactly what I was trying to say and hence why I prefer KERRs in most incidences!

H

[SMason0877]

My advice, get a decent 4-6 tonne capacity nylon rope.

Damn it..I just bought a 3 ton one  :(

Back to the drawing board  

[muddyweb]

That's OK... you only have a light vehicle ;-)

Just don't go trying to recover any stuck 110s :-)

[SMason0877]

I'll put that on my "What Not To Do" List.

Thanks Muddy  :D

[EvilEd]

Personal preference is a 12t nylon rope, with an 8t strap bridle and 3.75t rated shackles(Hopefully the weakest point)

Nylon is more forgiving than a strap as you take up the slack, less of a jolt. If the shackles go, then the bridle should cause enough drag on the rope to let the rope "Cramp" before it's completely free of the bridle and would then stop the rope trying to do injury to anyone. When I next see the chap with the bridles down at woodlands, I'll buy a second one as so many people don't have them and I don't like not having a bridle at both ends. Also means that the rope does not have a shackle attached so less weight flying about.

Advantage of a strap is that you can double it up without affecting the strength badly (or causing a weak point) Ropes don't like to be bent back on themselves. (So a 15M Strap could be used as a 7.5M or 5M if you double or treble it up) Course, if you use some old military snatchblocks, you could do this even better with a rope!

Another advantage with the strap is that it's easier to clean /  less likely to get stones / grit caught in it. If you drop a strap in mud, the mud tends to stay on the surface more and any particles that get into the strap will be quite small. Ropes tend to "Open up" when slack and a sharp lump of flint caught inside the rope can quickly damage it.

Glad to see no-one suggesting using a chain though....

[Range Rover Blues]

Glad to see no-one suggesting using a chain though....

And what's wrong with a chain?

Seriously, I can accept the view that a chain for car to car recovery would transmit every little bump and knock but the very fact that they don't stretch makes them safer for [/i]winching surely?

[Eeyore]

And what's wrong with a chain?

Again, it comes down to strain rate - with no shock absorbtion in the system every little jolt will place serious loads through your anchor points - very uncomfortable. Even strops have some give.

Winching however, is a slightly different ball game. Loads are applied more steadily reducing shock loading - thankfully the winches we use just aren't that powerfull. Mind you, I've still seen anchors fail, but thats another story!

cheers
 8)
Eeyore

[karloss]

demons, hellhounds and paul daniels"

Demons and hell hounds I can live with. But Paul Daniels?
No way hosay. :lol:  :lol: