landrover 110, the better engine

[William]

Hi guys, just wondered what you thort was the best engine in a 110 csw, a 300tdi or a 200tdi? Whats the power difference, i no the 300 has more torque, but is noticeable? Also the fuel consumption of the two, generally the better buy. Advicewould be greatfully recieved, thanks all xx

[MY90 MY LIFE]

i had a 200tdi 110 when full up with £60 it done 400 miles (with bf mt 255 85) and only done 65mph :( ive just bought a 300tdi 90 it does 240 miles to £40 (bout the same) but the 300 pulls like a train :) it will sit comfortably at 75 mph (and this has wider mts) i said 300 every time :)

hope it helps

 mike

[AbyssDJ]

our 110 is a 200tdi... doesnt do bad on fuel, dont ask me the figure though... shes heavy, but pulls like a bitch on heat and for some reason handles just how you want it to ;) leaves more than enough people behind

[mmgemini]

Fully laden. That's 3.4 Tonnes  :roll:  on krap South African diesel my 300tdi SW did 27mpg over three months.

I'd go for a 300 any day over a 200. I've had both.t

[smo]

The best engine in a 110 is a TD5 (or possibly a new tranny one) however out of your aged choices the 300tdi is better, a slightly more refined version of the 200 but not a patch on a modern engine.

[Rich_P]

The best engine in a 110 is a TD5 (or possibly a new tranny one)

Not in the middle of a desert/africa where there are no computers to use!  :P


Both the 200TDi and 300TDi are very similar in spec and performance in standard form.  The 200TDi sounds like a tractor, where as the 300TDi is more refined and doesn't sound so tractorish.

When it comes to a 110, out of the two, I'd just buy whichever happens to be in the best condition.  The 300TDi does have the advantage of the R380 gearbox though...

[smo]

The best engine in a 110 is a TD5 (or possibly a new tranny one)

Not in the middle of a desert/africa where there are no computers to use!  :P

What a load of rubbish, typical tripe spouted from someone who has never owned driven and maintained a TD5  :roll:

[mmgemini]

The best engine in a 110 is a TD5 (or possibly a new tranny one)

Not in the middle of a desert/africa where there are no computers to use!  :P

What a load of rubbish, typical tripe spouted from someone who has never owned driven and maintained a TD5  :roll:

It's not a load of rubbish. I'm with Rich P on this. It can be a life or death situation out there.
I spoke to a Discovery TD5 owner in Moremi. He'd broken down in Moremi with his TD5.
So.
You get a lift to Maun. That's half a day. Or send a message with a stranger,
Then the recovery truck had to travel from Maun to Moremi dirt roads remember.
The dealer in Maun didn't have the equipment to test so it was on the back of a truck to Jo'berg.
Simple isn't it.
Why do you think Land Rover are now offering the Defender Kalihari in South Africa.
I take it you have taken a TD5 into either Moremi or the CKGP ? I wouldn't. I would prefere something I can fix with a hammer.

I've just read some good horror stories about the Ford engine today.

[Porny]

Sorry...

But I agree with Smo.  A td5 is still an engine, and thus works on exactly the same principles... but god forbid it's got an ECU  :shock:

There will always be fauts with both engines that your run of mill bush mechanic will not be able to fix.  Whilst I agree a Tdi is a very simple engine, a Td5 isn't that much more complicated... certain symptons will always have certain faults.  
A lot of it would come down to preparation... and often the outdated mechanical skill of the individual.

If you were doing a overland trip then you'd take a multimeter, and various other spares.
For a Td5 - just take basic diagnostic software... most people nowdays take a lap top with them, so no extra effort needed to take diagnostic equipment.

The Td5 is a better engine than a 300Tdi in a number of ways - based on test bed and development work - but both engines will always have there good and bad points.


Engine choice for something like this would come down to individual choice - and skills/knowledge.


Going back to the original question...

In Defender spec a 200tdi has less power (different to a Disco) - but nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of tweaking.
Both engines have advantages and disadvantages...  but out of the two I prefer the 300Tdi.  


Ian

[smo]

A td5 is still an engine, and thus works on exactly the same principles... but god forbid it's got an ECU  :shock:

Not only that, but the TD5 had a longer production run than either the 200 or 300Tdi (possibly even both combined!) so it cant really be that bad now can it!

[William]

thanks guys,blimey talk about an argumentative topic! Yeh i thought 300tdi, just worried about the price more than anythin! What you think i should be paying for say an N reg standard, average miles and average condition? x

[thermidorthelobster]

I run a TD5 Disco but if I were buying a utility 110 it'd be a 300tdi. The real-world driveability isn't that much different but the TD5 takes more careful looking after (and I'm talking about general love, affection and maintenance, nothing to do with the ecu). And I'm speaking having done desert expeditions with both.

[Porny]

Not only that, but the TD5 had a longer production run than either the 200 or 300Tdi (possibly even both combined!) so it cant really be that bad now can it!

Hrmm... not quite true...

200Tdi - 1989 until 1994 - 5 years

300Tdi - 1994 until present - still avalible under som Row Spec's and military applications - so 13 years and still counting  

Td5 - 1998/1999 until 2007 - 8 years

Without sounding like a geek... I think the longest production run goes to the 2 1/4 petrol - which went from around 1959 until 1984 (with only a few changes).  The 2 1/4 diesel was from about 1961 until 1982.


Ian

[thermidorthelobster]

The length of the production run is really nothing to do with it;  the reason they superceded both the TDI engine and the TD5 is that they couldn't comply with EU emissions legislation.

[marsie]

I have owned all 3 types plus various v8s.Much depends on what you are using it for.My 90 has a 300tdi tuned about as far as i dare go,but is still only slightly more powerful than a bog standard td5 and miles behind some of the tweaked td5s that are appearing nowadays :shock: .Although the td5 is more reliant on electronics than either tdi i dont think it is owt to be scared of if you have any basic mechanical knowledge.I worked in a landrover dealers for 6 years at the height of the td5 sales and never had cause for concern that the td5 was unreliable.The only faults we got were-
oil pump bolts shearing :shock: at random(new engine)
overheat due to head moving on block(new head gasket and dowels)
fuel leaks from presure regulator(replace regulator)
non start(crank sensor)
rare porous heads(early cars)
Failed injectors(replace as required)
Misfire(oil in harness,fit modified harness)

With the exception of the sheared oil pump bolts they are all an easy fix.But all of the above faults could be put down to landrovers "variable"quality control.

But back to the point-200 or 300tdi :roll:  er 300 just because they are newer and they belts dont slip every time they get wet
Paul :twisted:

[thermidorthelobster]

I know on paper the TD5 is a punchier engine, but do you actually find in terms of every day driveability there is much difference?

Several times I've found my TD5 Disco (chipped) is a fraction nippier than a well-tweaked 300tdi, but not enough to make that much of a difference;  but I'd go so far as to say I enjoy driving 300tdis more than the TD5;  the torque band seems wider and you can hold the gears.

[marsie]

The 300 definately seems more torquey at the bottom end of the rev range,that is why i went for a 300 for my off roader.The td5 has a different fuel map for either hi or lo range
Paul :twisted:

[mmgemini]

I have owned all 3 types plus various v8s.Much depends on what you are using it for.My 90 has a 300tdi tuned about as far as i dare go,but is still only slightly more powerful than a bog standard td5 and miles behind some of the tweaked td5s that are appearing nowadays :shock: .Although the td5 is more reliant on electronics than either tdi i dont think it is owt to be scared of if you have any basic mechanical knowledge.I worked in a landrover dealers for 6 years at the height of the td5 sales and never had cause for concern that the td5 was unreliable.The only faults we got were-
oil pump bolts shearing :shock: at random(new engine)
overheat due to head moving on block(new head gasket and dowels)
fuel leaks from presure regulator(replace regulator)
non start(crank sensor)
rare porous heads(early cars)
Failed injectors(replace as required)
Misfire(oil in harness,fit modified harness)

With the exception of the sheared oil pump bolts they are all an easy fix.But all of the above faults could be put down to landrovers "variable"quality control.

But back to the point-200 or 300tdi :roll:  er 300 just because they are newer and they belts dont slip every time they get wet
Paul :twisted:

So what I was told today about TD5 injectors is a load of krap.
I can buy a TD5 injector and fit it. I don't have to do anything else. I just bolt it in and it will work perfectly.

[thermidorthelobster]

So what I was told today about TD5 injectors is a load of krap.
I can buy a TD5 injector and fit it. I don't have to do anything else. I just bolt it in and it will work perfectly.

Unless I'm mistaken, you have to update the ECU with the new injector codes, which needs Rovacom or Testbook.

[Porny]

A td5 will run with the wrong injector codes... as long as it's the correct type of injector.

Is not 100% ideal, but will work - you probably won't notice a difference.

A td5 won't pull oil over at extreme angles, and it won't snap a cambelt either....

[Bush Tucker Man]

The 300 definately seems more torquey at the bottom end of the rev range
Paul :twisted:

I felt quite the reverse was true; my old 110 (300Tdi Hard-Top) wasn't as flexible at low revs as my present Td5.
Plus the Td5 seems to have the advantage at motorway speeds (even though I only potter along at 50MPH)

[William]

50! jesus lol ido tht in 4th in my NA !

[JD LWB]

Revving the nadgers off it I should think at that! :D

[bonio73]

<Edit> the fuel economy - it's got to be a V8.  This coming from the biggest Greenie in West Devon!!!!

Apologies, but (and the wife agrees!) there is nothing like a V8 to get the juices flowing!!!

[L90OOK]

On a budget...200Tdi
Larger budget...chipped Td5

I have a 200Tdi 110 that will sit on the motorway at 80.  Ok I have tinkered with it a bit but it still passes the MOT.  However it has never let me down.  It's been to Iceland (5 weeks) & it's off to Norway in July.
Not the most refined beast but i know it works everytime.

I also owned a Td5 90HT that had a plug in chip, egr removed & straight through mid pipe.  The 90 would out pull all boyracers & always put a smile on my face driving it.  Cost more to service & if you need new injectors take out a second mortgage.