Lighting laws

[defuzz]

so, like many 200TDi Discos, my headlights are a bit rubbish especially compared to modern cars.  I've got better bulbs and fitted new headlight units but on a dark misty night its still like trying to navigate by candle light.


First up I've fitted some fog lights to deal with the dark foggy lanes around here, they work fine and are currently just fitted to a switch.  What is the law regardign fog lights.  Obviously I'd be daft to have them when there are no visibility problems but do I have to have them fitted to the full headlamp circuit so they turn off when I dip my lights for oncoming traffic?

Driving lights, I'd like some of these too.  Can I have these on with the full headlamps and off when headlights dipped for oncoming traffic, or are they only for off road use?  As I understand 50w bulbs are OK for on road full headlight use but 100w for instance are illegal for on road?


Ideally I'd like so me additional lighting for every day use (or night) eg allowed to be on when my lights are dipped so that when I dip for oncoming traffic, my road ahead isn't plunged into near darkness.

[Lucy1978]

I think, your front fogs should only be on when your lights are dipped.  Driving lights must be wired so that they can only be switched on with full beam.  As for improving the normal headlights, I really couldn't say.

[strapping young lad]

you can do a couple of things to a 200..

the cheapest is
get more powerful bulbs from powerbulbs.com

if the lenses in the headlights are full of crud then buy new ones i got a pair for 60 quid i thinik

alternatively you can get facial upgrade to the 200 to have the 300 grille and headlights and indicators which are miles better, but i dont know whats involved in this (although i do recall being able to buy a kit)

[Terranosaurus]

Can't remember the link to the actual law but the details are as follows.

Fog lights.

Like dipped hadlights these have to be angled down at 3% (their notation not mine).

They may be used on their own or with other lights but only when visibility is reduced to 100m in Fog or falling snow.


Driving/Spot Lights

No such thing in law these are auxillary main beam lights.

They must extinguish with main beam.



General

All vehicles after 1987 have to use E marked bulbs, there are very few bulbs of greater than 55w for single filament and 55/60 for twin that are E marked. PIAA do sell some but they are horrendously expensive. Haven't seen any E marked HID conversions yet either.

Pre1987 E marking is not required so you have your free pick of uprated bulbs or even HID upgrades.

Ideally I'd like so me additional lighting for every day use (or night) eg allowed to be on when my lights are dipped so that when I dip for oncoming traffic, my road ahead isn't plunged into near darkness.

Sorry I'm afraid you're not allowed to unless its foggy or snowing.


Don't know what the wiring is like on a Disco, do they use relays? if not or even if rewiring the lights so you shorten the feed from the alternator to the lights by placing relays as close to the lights as possible helps prevent voltage drop. Also using good quality standard current draw but uprated output (ie high efficeincy) will help too, again PIAA's are fantastic but costly.

Rewiring so dip stays on with main beam will improve main beam but obviously not low beam and can shorten bulb life.

Get your lights set properly too, you can do this yourself on a dark night by trial and error or get a garage to do it with a beam alligner, problem is many garages just make them pass the MOT. You need your lights set as high as possible but still legal for best light.

And after all this make sure you alternator is up to the job.

[Highlander1]

Vehicle lighting reg 21 sec 19 1971 misuse of non obligitory fog lights you can only use em if visibility is reduced to 100ft ie to light the roadside ahead.

Best get some blue tungsten main beam lamps or some secondary dips. make sure the lens has EU mark E2 which is legal requirement for dipped beams E1 is main beam.

I hate fog light users on wet roads they blind on coming vehicles. Theres a blind spot as 2 cars pass each other so with fogs on you miss the deer running out and folks get killed.

Also try standing in front of your vehicle with fogs on you will see how bright they are at low level sports cars etc get hammered by them.

If you drive with fogs on they only light up a few feet in front of your vehicle so your as well on main beam fogs off unless it's foggy.

Drive into fog bank, fogs on out of fag bank fogs off. Otherwise it's as irresponsible as those ridding around with rear fogs on in summer.

That's my personal experience everyones got their own views and entitled to them.

Cheers H1

[UKJeeper]

SPTB is on the right track, IMO. Have you considered installing a headlight relay system instead? Basically this bypasses the stock wiring harness and sends the electric directly from the battery to the bulbs.

Stock wiring harnesses are known for losing loads of power, no matter what brand of vehicle it is. Use a multi meter and find out just many volts are actually making it to the bulbs, possibly only about 10 volts! My Cherokee is also afflicted with "oil lamp" syndrome, and i plan on sorting that out this summer.

There's some formula that helps how figure out how many watts in the headlight are being lost depending on how many volts you aren't getting from the wiring, someone will tell you better than me how that works out.

I'd suggest looking into the relay system before trying to add more powerful bulbs (that still won't be getting all the power they should). Loads of writeups on google about how to do it.

[graham78]

technically by the mot regs you cant have more than 6 lights wired together on main beam so the 10 i have....

as for the formula power(watts) = amps x volts
                          volts = power / amps
                         amps = power / volts

hope this helps,  also the gauge of the cable you use draws some as well...

there is a fair amount on the lighting regs in mot book, if you want pm me a specific question and i will have a go at finding out for you, but a lot of the stuff in the book is very "grey"

so long as you put a switch in the circuit/put covers on the lights you should be okay, as you can declare them for offorad use only!!!

[S188]

For replacement lenses, I know Cibie make some square lenses some of which might fit a 200 disco? I'm sure its a comon shape as its used on loads of british vehicles of that vintage.  I have some of their 7" round lamps in my series 1 and the beam patern is fantastic, as good as a modern car; I must be one of the few landy drivers who is now happy with just 2 headlamps!

Got them from classic and rally services (CARS) on the net, have a look at the dimensions of the square versions (he might even know if they fit as he has a sherpa van - same lights!).  They also sell lots of bulbs at good prices.

I added relays to my setup before doing the above and that made quite a difference to my lucas sealed beams, though it didn't save them from the bin!  
I think the formula for how many watts a light gives out is based on a bulbs current remaining pritty constant though voltage varies.  This'd mean a normal 12v 55w bulb (which will be running at around 13.8v if the altinators doing its job, thats normal batt voltage when the engines running) achives its max wattage of 55w and so must draw about 4A (55/13.8=3.99).  If its only getting 13V to the bulb thats about 52W (13*4=52), not too bad.  12V at first sounds alright but that only gives you 48W so you can see your powerful lamps can easilly become alot less than first thort.

The letters like E1 (in a circle) on a headlight simply means which EU country aproved the lamp for EU homologation, I think E1 is germany, the UK is E11 and thats quite common on headlights for right hand drive.  These mean where it was aproved rather than were it is aloud to be used, any marking means its fine for use all over the EU (with beam deflectors if apropreate).  There are markings on all road lamps to state their type aproval as a leadlight, sidelight, cornering light, foglight, light with HID source... basicly anything.  All bulbs and equipment on modern vehicles should have an E marking; you'd probubly struggle to pass the german TuV (MOT) without such markings but in the UK no one cares about type aprovals unless makeing a new car (could be on the SVA test therefore).

You won't find a HID conversion thats aproved as they are ilegal for road use in unaproved lenses, ferthermore EU rules state all DIPPED beams useing HID systems MUST be fitted with self leveling devices and automatic headlight washers - look at any car in a show room and you'll find these features on a HID equiped model, its actully the law rather than the upmarket toy feature marketing often surgests.  Lenses compatable with HID bulbs carry their own type aproval mark but I forget what it was, starts with an R I think and will be written on the headlight lens near the E mark.  Useing them in normal lenses for H4 bulbs could create the wrong beam patern and dassle someone, ive herd some so called H* bulb conversions have bad paterns.  Certainly doesn't seem to be a shortage of H1/H4/H7 HID bulb conversions around now, not one for road use though it might be alright for main beam use (personly I think the regulations on main beam should mean little as there shouldn't be anyone there when they are used so do what you like, thats my view though).  Manufactuers and sellers get round the lighting regs by saying "off road only".  All of the above seems pritty trivial in practice as it seems you can do/fit anything and no one will care.  The police don't seem to care about cars with half their lights not working (infact I see many police cars with more than 1 failed roadlight!  blown bulbs do happen but more than 1 surgests they don't get checked often) so I really doubt they'll care about cars with working lights unless you happen to find a traffic cop to dassle.  A speed camera or a HA oficer can do nothing.  An MOT tester will probubly be the only person who might pick up on it.

Most modern cars front fogs work when the sidelights are on so that must be legal.  I think having fogs completely independant is also legal but that  might just be old vehicles which can get round many rules (I could use my brake lights as turn indicators if I wanted to!).  You probubly wouldn't want fogs to only operate with dipped beam as dip could cause you dassle in thick fog; in such fog you'd be doing under 5mph though.  Having said that I don't think the front fogs fitted to most modern cars aren't even up to that, they are usally useless fassion accessorys and only useful (if you can call it that) to people who think it makes their car look more cool at night as they annoy oncomming cars, still a speed camera or HA wagon will do nothing to stop this.  

Some big bolt on aftermarket front fog lamps (built to actully work rather than make a box on a new car options list) however can be a useful safety feature thats not a bad idea if you live in an area suseptable to thick fog; The moors to the west of sheffield are such a place though I find dipped beam and slow down works fine, really should fit a rear fog lamp though as one day one of those BMW's that overtakes at 40mph+ will hit me - I wonder if the driver of such a vehicle has ever given thort to the fact a sheep in the middle of an unfenced road will not feature bright lights to make it visible enough to see before its less than 10m infront of you! - I'll stop before I go into a proper rant!

[Highlander1]

E1 main beam E2 dipped. Cars develop faults on the road so if the lights failed on route after you left you destination and having checked thewy were ok you are not going to get booked.

Same with police cars if you checked and they do on each shift but they fail on a shout you haven't got time to change them.

Fog lights are for fog not for being inconsiderate. tickets do get issued for misuse of fog lights.