Problems in the for sale section.

[Jason2985]

:(
For some reason, i can not reply in the "For Sale" section.
Wots going on.
When i try to reply it says " Sorry, Only Moderators Can Reply In This Section"
 :(
Jay

[Wolfie]

It's not a problem at all  :D

Have a read of http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=4868  

Edited to add, have removed your reply as you have PMd the seller, just to keep the For Sale section tidy

[Thrasher]

You can PM the seller :)

[TDi90]

It's not a problem at all  :D

yes it is a problem acually, and i think you should maybe vote on how people want it, because i reckong that waaaay over half would prefer it as a reply possible section.
 :roll:

[Jason2985]

You can PM the seller :)

Done that.
I`m sorry , but i didn`t read the items for sale regs before.
Its just that i have replied to items on the for sale section before and now i get this new message.
So obviously i`m a bit frustrated.
I see a bargain and i dont want to lose it.
And not everyone gets to receive a P.M. Like me, i dont get notices unless i log in.
I dont have my profile set up to get the notice of a P.M. via email.
So how come you have decided to clamp down now?
I have one P.M. from another disgruntled member regarding this.
And to be honest you shouldn`t be removing posts when i`m trying to contact some one regarding a sale if there is no other way of contacting them other than P.M.
You can contact people by replying on the forum of other 4x4 sites so why not this one?
I did reply to Mudrat regarding a sale previously via the "for sale section"
So i cant see what the problem is.
Please dont get like the "L.R.O. " forum where they used to go "ott" regarding posts.
Don`t know what its like now as i havn`t been on for a while.

Jay

[thermidorthelobster]

This has been gone over a few times now.

The change of setup is because some people on the forums were ignoring the rules and continually bumping their For Sale posts;  also there were complaints from people whose threads were hijacked, or who got unhelpful comments along the lines of "no way is it worth that much", etc etc.  This took up a lot of admin time from your friendly bunch of moderators.

After much moderator discussion it was decided to try this method out instead, hopefully to make everybody's lives easier.

There was no vote, because it's the moderators who have to manage the site on a daily basis.  But rest assured it was discussed at length.  I would imagine if there WERE a vote, many people would like it back the way it was, but then that wouldn't actually solve the problems that came up in the first place.

As always, if you don't like the way the forum is run, you're very welcome to use For Sale forums elsewhere.

[TDi90]

why change it because of a few people.
thats what this gov'mnt is doing with byways. is it right? no.
i reckon you try it again how it used to be... just a try... no harm done, just try it. maybe it will work this time?
maybe even put in the rules for selling no unhelpful comments or something, i dont know that bit is up to you.
tryieys?
R

[Jason2985]

This has been gone over a few times now.

The change of setup is because some people on the forums were ignoring the rules and continually bumping their For Sale posts;  also there were complaints from people whose threads were hijacked, or who got unhelpful comments along the lines of "no way is it worth that much", etc etc.  This took up a lot of admin time from your friendly bunch of moderators.

After much moderator discussion it was decided to try this method out instead, hopefully to make everybody's lives easier.

There was no vote, because it's the moderators who have to manage the site on a daily basis.  But rest assured it was discussed at length.  I would imagine if there WERE a vote, many people would like it back the way it was, but then that wouldn't actually solve the problems that came up in the first place.

As always, if you don't like the way the forum is run, you're very welcome to use For Sale forums elsewhere.

Ok.
If people are ignoring the rules then have a 3 strikes and your out rule.
Dont penalise the masses for the sake of a few individuals.
And as for the you can always go else where theory, well maybe i will and that attitude is very arrogant.
May be we should have a vote? on the Moderators.
It stinks of the L.R.O., they used to be very arrogant and do as i say not as i do attitude.
Please dont spoil an otherwise excellent site.
If i have caused offence and a bit of debate then i`m glad.
Well i am a shop steward.

Jay

[Thrasher]

The seller won't know you've replied on here if he doesn't log in or read his email.

A PM will go to his EMAIL inbox, as will a reply. Please expain the difference to me? You could ALSO email the seller.

I see no point in a long thread of people saying PM sent, or asking questions irrelevent to the other members.

Poll if you like - but as a seller I react to PM's/Emails over posts on a reply......

Jay -just so you know - LRO is run by a MAGAZINE (i.e a BUSINESS). Mud club is run by volunteers. There *is* a difference.

[TDi90]

Poll if you like -

ok i will now.
R

[sleeplessparadise]

I think this way is much better, stops all the "Got any pics" and also the thread hijacks as mentioned....... I remember one guys thread being hijacked twice at least so what is the point of trying to sell something if all you are going to get is people wasting your time like that? Well done admin I say

[v8kenny]

If this new system is going to stay in place is there a way that the original poster of item for sale could add "sold" to his post so the rest of us know when something is sold or not
Sometimes things sell quickly and other times not so fast (hence the bumps in the past I suppose ! ) and it would save a lot of pointless "is the item still for sale" - "yes" - "no its sold"  PM's

[Jason2985]

The seller won't know you've replied on here if he doesn't log in or read his email.

A PM will go to his EMAIL inbox, as will a reply. Please expain the difference to me? You could ALSO email the seller.

I see no point in a long thread of people saying PM sent, or asking questions irrelevent to the other members.

Poll if you like - but as a seller I react to PM's/Emails over posts on a reply......

Any P.Ms sent to me do not go to my email in box.
I dont have my Mud Club account set up that way.
And maybe others dont either.
The reply or question may be irrelvent to other members but maybe it is to the seller?
All i ask is listen to your members, if it wern`t for us there would not be a "Mud Club" forum.
You have a point regarding the Mods, they have a hard job to do regarding, well moderating this forum.
And a grand job you do.
But you don`t have to do it, its your choice.
Please dont be over zealous.
We are all here for the good of all 4x4 owners so lets pull together and stop bickering.
If some one has a problem with the site then listen to them.
Dont come over all arrogant and say you are welcome to go elsewhere.
I come on here because i like the site, a good set of people and now and again you can pick up a bargain.
If i or anybody else has a problem then listen.

Jay

[Thrasher]

The original poster can modify their post without issue.

[v8kenny]

The original poster can modify their post without issue.

Can they?  - that will sort that then !  :oops:  :lol:

[Jason2985]

:D
I`m in the mood for a good debate.
So lets get on with it.

Jay

[Wolfie]

If this new system is going to stay in place is there a way that the original poster of item for sale could add "sold" to his post so the rest of us know when something is sold or not

There should be an "EDIT" button at the top right of the post. This will allow the poster to change the title as suggested.

If it's not there (I don't know because I get extra buttons anyway) please can you let us know and it will be looked into.

[Thrasher]

Jay,

I'll say this publically as I have nothing to hide. This forum is supposed to be fun, friendly and free. There are not a lot of rules, but sometimes we try and help our members by making certain things easier and less cluttered.

The club in itself is now funded in various ways (contributions), but it started off being provided without funding, by enthusiasts.

If you choose not to receive PM notification from the board, simply add "please contact me via the email button below this post". It's not difficult, and possibly better for you as you will get the email immediatley and not when you next log on.

[thermidorthelobster]

Please remember, Mud Club is a private site run at the expense of its owners, for the benefit of the members.

LRO and various other forums are frequently (but not always) commercial, or profit-making sites.

The comments and feedback we get are not ignored - behind the scenes there is a great deal of discussion and debate - but at the end of the day, what the admins say, goes.  You have full voting rights;  if you don't like it, you're very welcome to set up your own site.  Is this arrogant?  Maybe it is, or maybe it's actually pretty fair.

[Jason2985]

Jay,

I'll say this publically as I have nothing to hide. This forum is supposed to be fun, friendly and free. There are not a lot of rules, but sometimes we try and help our members by making certain things easier and less cluttered.

The club in itself is now funded in various ways, but it started off being provided without funding, by enthusiasts.

If you choose not to receive PM notification from the board, simply add "please contact me via the email button below this post". It's not difficult, and possibly better for you as you will get the email immediatley and not when you next log on.

Thankyou.
I appreciate the feed back.
Yes you are correct.
As regards thermidorthelobster`s comments.
Well i appreciate the fact that its a private site, and yes what the admin says goes as they own the site.
But come on, give a little take a lot?
So do i have a point or not?
If not then please dont reply, if i do then please listen.
Why dont you have a poll?
About this issue regarding replying to posts.
If i`m wrong after the poll then i`ll eat humble pie and admit it.


Jay

[thermidorthelobster]

There is now a poll.  But the point isn't what is most popular, it's what works best for the site.  I anticipate the majority will probably vote for back the way it was.  But that doesn't take away the issue of abuse of the system and the amount of moderator time that it takes to police that one section.

As I said, however, the feedback IS read and discussed.  The issues are typically more complex than they appear.  For example, people say - don't penalise everybody for the actions of the few - but if you knew how much hassle and grief we sometimes get from the few, the decision as it was might make more sense.

That's not to say it won't be changed.  The idea was introduced on the basis of let's see how it goes.  Your feedback is part of that process.

[muddyjames]

I'm going to guess most people will vote for it back the old way as alot of people dont like change. I am one of them when it comes to forums as I know my way around and then I have to change where I click etc. Im sure if you gave it say 6months this way then most people will have got used to this method and probably wont vote back the way it was.

Yeah it is annoying seeing the only moderators can post here message but hey, say to yourself "doh yup I forgot" click the back button then click pm instead.

Or another suggestion I have is, if you do goback the way it was, how about more moderators just in the for sale bit to help kep on top of things?

Mud Club is the joint best forum I type on. Its the only 4x4 forum I type on!! I ran a forum for over a couple of years and got so much abuse I left it and handed it over to someone else (who couldnt hack it for 6 months!) I am now back on the forum I started but no more than a general member. I congratulate everything Mud Club doesas I have met loads of new friends through here and that to me alone is worth changing my ways to suit the changes the admin guys put in.

Final word from me is,

Thank you to all the mods and admin guys on here, you do a fantastic job  and I hope the club keeps going for many more years to come yet. a huge thank you.

[Jason2985]

There is now a poll.  But the point isn't what is most popular, it's what works best for the site.  I anticipate the majority will probably vote for back the way it was.  But that doesn't take away the issue of abuse of the system and the amount of moderator time that it takes to police that one section.

As I said, however, the feedback IS read and discussed.  The issues are typically more complex than they appear.  For example, people say - don't penalise everybody for the actions of the few - but if you knew how much hassle and grief we sometimes get from the few, the decision as it was might make more sense.

That's not to say it won't be changed.  The idea was introduced on the basis of let's see how it goes.  Your feedback is part of that process.

Thankyou for the feed back.
That is the reply i would of liked to have received earlier.
If i was a bit ott before then  i appologise, but when you get a reply like "you can always go some where else" its not nice.
Its people like your selves putting the time in and people like me that make this site one of the best on the tinternet.
Lets not spoil that, if it wernt for people like your selves and the contributors like my self there wouln`t be a Mud Club.
Its working together that can make a good site in to a dogs danglies site.
Ok L.R.O. is a commercial site, but they are trying to address the problems they have.
Why not have a Complaint forum.
Not just about the site but things in general. Council tax, car tax, wife etc etc. blah blah blah.


Jay

[thermidorthelobster]

but when you get a reply like "you can always go some where else" its not nice.

Yours is a fair comment - sorry!

[datalas]

There are many many reasons why the for sale section has just gone onto a "Post only" method,   I feel I shouldn't need to point them out again but hey ho.


Please note, that Mud-Club takes around three hours a day of my time, and that's on a good day.  Not to mention that there is also a financial burden to running the club and organising the limited few events that I organise.

I know that Thrasher and the other moderators put in an equal amount of time and income cases funds to mud-club.

I know that the for-sale section is now not to everyone's taste, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time, and with mud-club becoming one of the busier 4x4 sites on the planet I wanted to be able to start sleeping at night again.

I'm sorry if this meets with disapproval, but I figured that having sacrificed at least one relationship, most of my holidays and a significant chunk of my overdraft to please "some of the people most of the time" I would be selfish and not sacrifice my health as well...

[Wanderer]

Daz's post says it all really.

It is unfortunate, but it happens with everything where volunteers are concerned, the doers are doing and giving as much time as they can.

The Admin guys dip into their pockets and occasionally have sleepless nights when something they have no real control over goes pear shaped. Those same Admin guys rely on a handful of moderators to take the strain in keeping the club out of legal battles, bad press and general bad feeling between the members.

It would seem to be that there are certain members that enjoy baiting other members. The changes made to the for sale section were to avoid the moderation team from having to spend 90% of their time looking after that forum which meant that others were being overlooked or not given the proper amount of time needed.

Some of these certain members also seem to ignore PMs from the moderation team and lengthen the time taken to deal with moderation matters thereby making it worse for the Admin/Moderation team.

Anyway let's face facts there are a few scenarios but only one of those is really viable to keep Mud Club running in it's present guise which I think we'd all like.

So what makes a forum a good forum?

Good Admin?
Good and fair Moderation team?
Members that play ball and don't rattle cages for a bit of attention when they are bored?

In the main we have all three of those.

What makes MC different?

It is free?
It is friendly?
It is a club without a committee? (things get done quicker)
Swearing isn't allowed (There are fora that allow it so if that's what you want to do go and use them)
It fosters a sense of community where everyone is an equal?
Bullying/baiting is not allowed?
The Admin/Moderation team are made up of handpicked people that don't bear grudges and won't use their position to even up scores?
(Ask some of the people that have been severely moderated over the years and they'll tell you they aren't treated any differently)
The Team actually do discuss matters and keep each other informed.

Anyway I digress. Decisions aren't made to annoy people. They are made with the best interests and the smooth running of Mud Club in mind.

So try looking at things as though you were wearing the Admin guys shoes and you might see the bigger picture.

This post is not aimed specifically at anyone posting in this thread but members in general.

Ed

[Keri]

Arnt you going to lock this thread to  :roll: rather than let it run its course *because* "it hasn't got many miles left in it"

After all if it hasn't got many miles left it will disappear fast itself.

[Wanderer]

A hint of sarcasm there Keri?

Ed

[drutt]

Arnt you going to lock this thread to  :roll: rather than let it run its course *because* "it hasn't got many miles left in it"

After all if it hasn't got many miles left it will disappear fast itself.

The reason we haven't locked it is for exactly the reason your last sentence is inaccurate ... If we do lock threads we get people posting new ones saying "but, I needed to have the last word!" and then the argument starts up again and again and again and again, ad infinitum.

I'm not going to get drawn into an argument, I think everyone has pointed out everything they need to point out,  as was said, reasonably well by Eeyore (a different person I might add) some people don't like the new scheme, some people agreed with it due to a lack of alternatives.

However, when it comes to baiting moderators and Admins remember that the club is "fun, friendly and free"..  from my perspective taking abuse from members on a daily basis and devoting time I don't have to having my morality, integrity and intelligence questioned at every turn barely qualifies as the first two,  and the club hasn't been the third since it's inception.

I consider the matter closed,  if however anyone feels that they have to reiterate something that has already been said, feel "free"....

[Yoshi]

I am not trying to have the last word on the subject here, but i havent seen where in any way its got nasty, all i see is an expression of opinions and a lively debate?

No-one is saying the mods do a bad job, in fact they do a fantastic job, but in instances where threads are being locked because the mods dont like the subject of them, thats going to cause a problem and spark up new threads, like the one Eeyore locked about this, from a personal point of view i saw nothing wrong with it, like this one it was just a debate between people of differing views.

There were also some good ideas put forwards to help the moderation team and to help give user some of what they want, thus compromising a little and keeping mud club the fantastic place it is.

Another idea to propose is that everyone this week donate £2.50 via paypal to show our appreciation because, as stated, the admins do pay for this out of their own pocket when they dont have to.  I am going to do mine now so lets all pool together and show some love man!!!!