Faith in the Forum Community dented 2

[v8kenny]

I naively thought that just about everyone who uses this forum would be honest and trustworthy.............how wrong you can be !
I bought a bike from a member on here about a month or so ago and despite paying CASH into his account the same day it took over a month to get the bike delivered - I was fobbed off with excuse after excuse :-
Courier wouldnt pick up - too big
In the post, be with you Friday - oh hang on it was someone elses parcel I sent !
Bank holiday delays etc,etc
Even had to involve his mate who's ebay account he had used to advertise the bike as well as on here
Anyway I eventually had to threaten police intervention to get the bike delivered (I had paid for delivery)
The bike was for my son who had saved for ages and it was not a cheap bike - nearly £500 !
After the bike had been delivered it turned out it was un-ridable  as the rear suspension was broken - this has led to another £120 bill to have it returned to the manufacturer to have fixed - of course the seller denies any knowledge - damage was not caused in transit and menders have stated it had been broken for a while

Rant over - I guess I just want to say you guys be careful who you buy stuff from !
 
PS - perhaps this shows up a potential flaw in the new for sale rules as I had to resort to dozens of PM'S instead of posting problems on the actual for sale thread which would of at least alerted others to this guy as he sells a few items on here

I expect this will get pulled anyway
 :lol:

[welshlaner]

I naively thought that just about everyone who uses this forum would be honest and trustworthy.............how wrong you can be !

sorry to hear that mate, but I still stick to one rule "let buyer beware" wheather its forums, fee-bay, small adverts mail order the lot.

Yes i've heard the same story and i admit to be a moderator to a non 4x4 forum and we had all kinds of problems.

there seems to be a patten, the odd rogue joins in the chats, gains the respect of he other members, never sells stuff.

Then months later often under the banner of i'am having a clear out, he's a list of stuff, just want to get rid of quick cause of house sale etc suddenly off loads loads of stuff. Buyers pay but never receive, ip address linked to rented address and he's gone and so's the money.

It happens everywhere so don't see why the forum is at fault

[Silvery Thing]

Kenny.... you really should 'name and shame' mate.

I am not suggesting that you post up the person's name here but please do it by pm to anyone that asks for it.... so with that in mind can you please pm the names, both on this forum and on Ebay, to me so that I can steer clear of him/her :?:

[v8kenny]

I naively thought that just about everyone who uses this forum would be honest and trustworthy.............how wrong you can be !

there seems to be a patten, the odd rogue joins in the chats, gains the respect of he other members, never sells stuff.

Then months later often under the banner of i'am having a clear out, he's a list of stuff, just want to get rid of quick cause of house sale etc suddenly off loads loads of stuff. Buyers pay but never receive, ip address linked to rented address and he's gone and so's the money.

It happens everywhere so don't see why the forum is at fault

Well first of all I did get the goods eventually although they were damaged and I had to make threats to get the bike sent
Secondly I am not blaming the forum, it is my fault entirely for being so trusting - I only posted this as a heads up for others to be careful when buying items and to point out how not being able to post on for sale items can potentially lead to problems
Whether I could or couldn't reply would of made no difference to my particular problems - it would only have highlighted what was happening and saved me making this post
Again - I attach no blame to the forum and it wont stop me buying things - I will just be more careful who I deal with and how I deal with them in the future.
As anyone who has bought from me will know I normally post things out even before I have received payment for them - maybe need to think again on that one
  :roll:

[Thrasher]

It won't get pulled, unless of course it descends into the murky depths of libel :)

[mike142sl]

Kenny,

Unfortunately the forum is far from secure in this respect, largley in my view because you can register without having to provide any true identity. There are many who don't even let us know which part of the country they are in. If we were asked to provide genuine personal details on registering (not available on the open forum) then the type of user as described by welshlaner might be less common, as issues such as this could be followed up via moderators etc. and if necessary the offender could be removed.

[screwy]

How about a minimum number of posts and time before one can advertise in the relevant sections? I hate it when people register and thier first post is a for sale ad. :x

[welshlaner]

Kenny,

Unfortunately the forum is far from secure in this respect, largley in my view because you can register without having to provide any true identity. There are many who don't even let us know which part of the country they are in. If we were asked to provide genuine personal details on registering (not available on the open forum) then the type of user as described by welshlaner might be less common, as issues such as this could be followed up via moderators etc. and if necessary the offender could be removed.

Still quite hard to Police, some forums have a kind of questionare where as anyone in the hobby would easly answer simple questions, in the case i mentioned he/she had been on for over 6 months and all the posts they had put on seemed geniune. Other fourms have a no for sale rule until certain number of posts been met. As for IP address location easy by country but with certain broadband providers miles out, i know cause i check my own and never had it get the right location.

But it happens in society in general, i known it happen in clubs were rogues join, no problems for years then they "sell up" take deposits or promise goods and simply disapear, go round to the house and they have gone leaving a trail of debts, broken promises un delivered goods.

The forums, tineternet flee-bay in general makes it easier for them, remove them but they often return under another name and account.

[thermidorthelobster]

How about a minimum number of posts and time before one can advertise in the relevant sections? I hate it when people register and thier first post is a for sale ad. :x

Nice idea, but very fiddly to implement from a coding perspective, I think.

[thermidorthelobster]

If we were asked to provide genuine personal details on registering (not available on the open forum) then the type of user as described by welshlaner might be less common, as issues such as this could be followed up via moderators etc. and if necessary the offender could be removed.

Firstly, there would be no way of verifying this data, unless the admins personally vet information on each of several thousand members.  Secondly, I'm not sure how mods could actually follow this up;  what could we actually do from a practical point of view?

Removing offenders is a possibility, HOWEVER, always in these stories there are two perspectives put forward, and whilst I don't have any reason to doubt what Kenny has said, when it gets to an argument about who did or didn't do what, it gets almost impossible to actually prove what happened.

If people have genuine reasons to be concerned about things like this, then if you PM a mod, at least we then have an idea about what's going on, and can try to keep an eye on future issues.  For example if we get complaints about a member from several sources, that might contribute to them being banned, depending on the circumstances.

[v8kenny]

Removing offenders is a possibility, HOWEVER, always in these stories there are two perspectives put forward, and whilst I don't have any reason to doubt what Kenny has said, when it gets to an argument about who did or didn't do what, it gets almost impossible to actually prove what happened.

Well if you have no reason to doubt what I have said then the point of the above statement is what exactly ?
Why would I make this up ? - I only posted to warn others to be careful - in future I will keep my business to myself
As for it being impossible to prove would you like me to send you a copy of the dozen or so PM's I had to send to chase up the bike, along with the replies from the other member full of lies - I can also send you the countless emails from his mate whose ebay account he used showing exactly what he thought along with the tracking no. and eventual post date,my receipt from ebay showing when I paid, a copy of my bank statement showing the money coming out and the engineers report from the manufacturer of the suspension unit showing that the damage had been there for a period of time making the bike un rideable

It seems to me TTL that most of your replies are flippant or verging on being rude - at the very least they are not very helpful and I don't just mean this post
Every reply to any of my posts that you have made recently are a bit too off hand for my liking
Have I done something to upset you at some point ?

[thermidorthelobster]

I'm surprised by your reply;  sorry if you feel that way.

Like I said, I have no reason to doubt what you say.  That means I think you're right.

However, as I was trying to explain, when it comes down to trying to sort out 2 different opinions people put forward about an event that's happened, it's often very difficult to "prove" who was right and who was wrong.

ie, if the other member comes back and says, yes, but my brother was ill in hospital and then the postman didn't come when he said he would, and my internet connection was broken so I didn't get my PMs, and blah blah blah, even if he's lying through his teeth, how can we prove it either way?  I might KNOW you're right, but if I can't actually prove it, is there much that can be done about it?  If we ban members on that basis, all that happens is they run off screaming about how unfair mud-club is.

Again, sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to in any way, and I entirely sympathise with your problem.

[v8kenny]

Fair enough TTL - I guess I'm just having a bad day !
I must admit I do sometimes feel that you converse on here in a teacher/pupil kind of way though  
I dont particularly want this guy banned - treat others as you want to be treated is my motto - he will get his comeuppance eventually
Anyway, - Rant over, I need to move on now and sorry if I was a bit unkind
Cheers
Kenny

[Lyndsey731]

What is going on with this forum over the last few months, everyone seems to be out for blood. Gents calm down read every response twice before you take offence and jump down each others throat and i mean mods and normal members, it is too easy to jump to the wrong conclusion over someones response, keep it calm, keep it fun.

Gav

[thermidorthelobster]

I must admit I do sometimes feel that you converse on here in a teacher/pupil kind of way though  

Oops, sorry, that's what comes of doing a teacher training course  :oops:

[v8kenny]

What is going on with this forum over the last few months, everyone seems to be out for blood. Gents calm down read every response twice before you take offence and jump down each others throat and i mean mods and normal members, it is too easy to jump to the wrong conclusion over someones response, keep it calm, keep it fun.

Gav

Oi ! - shut it you and mind your own business !










(that was a joke by the way !)  :lol:

[Lyndsey731]

Fair play kenny you nearly got me there! read your comment, didn't see the bottom and thought crikey no need for that! (polite version) but it does show read it then read it again.

like your style

cheers

Gav

[muddyjames]

I had a similar thing happen to me via Mc a year or so back. I had an item for sale and they said they would like the item posted fairly fast. They wanted to pay by cheque. I gave them a few days to post the cheque and nothing came. They said it was in the post so I thought ooh a MC member, not going to fob me off. So I posted the item to them. Did the cheque ever arrive? Did it eck as like!

Next time I wont be so nice and post the item until I have payment cleared. Other sales I have done have been perfect though and all the items I have bought have been fine even one item that travelled via MC express.

I generaly stick to a rule of buying of people who have been around the forum for over a year and have posted lots of comments in various areas.

[mike142sl]

Using the PM route to a mod is probably the best route as things stand, after all I'm not aware this is a major issue on the forum at the moment as I suspect most for sale ads complete amicably.

One for the mods to monitor for future ref I would say.

[welshlaner]

I generaly stick to a rule of buying of people who have been around the forum for over a year and have posted lots of comments in various areas.

If you read my posts you'll see how hard it is to stop people conning each other using forums

I'am not saying its a common problems but been a mod of another i reckon about 1 in 100 members cause problems.

But when they do its a lot of damage, lots of people get "conned" one of the comments back is "he's been on a year and respected member of the forum" then blame the mods for not doing anything

[v8kenny]

Next time I wont be so nice and post the item until I have payment cleared.

I remember someone buying a relatively low value item from me last year
I PM'd him to say that rather than wait for his cheque to arrive and clear I would just pop the item in the post straight away (got it away from under my feet)
He PM'd me back to say that was fine and he would send a cheque AFTER the item had arrived !
 I had to laugh - I thought that should have been the other way round !
Got my dosh mind   :lol: