Swearing on the increase

[thermidorthelobster]

I've noticed, and other forum users have pointed out, that the incidence of swearing on the forum is increasing.  Please remember this is a family forum and that swearing is not acceptable;  as per the Sticky post in The Bar, neither is deliberately altering swear words to try to avoid the swear filter.

It is quite tedious as a moderator to have to edit several posts a day because users have overlooked or ignored this rule. :roll:

Thank you,
The Management

[cardiff_gareth]

Thank you,
The Management

hale and pase eh !

on a serious note, maybe repeat offenders should have their account suspended for a few days as a mark of a telling off - they can either stop or if they don't like it, well they know where the door is  :lol:  :lol:

maybe this should be a sticky thread so it doesn't get dropped off the page  :?:

[L90OOK]

As thermidorthelobster knows I swear like a trooper in the flesh...but I respect the wishes if the management & control myself....besides it is much more enlightening learning a new vocabulary :lol:
So come on, if I can keep it clean then the rest of you can  :shock:  :D

[thermidorthelobster]

on a serious note, maybe repeat offenders should have their account suspended for a few days as a mark of a telling off - they can either stop or if they don't like it, well they know where the door is  :lol:  :lol:

maybe this should be a sticky thread so it doesn't get dropped off the page  :?:

As with other offences, that's the general idea of what does happen;  fortunately and perhaps because of the occasional gentle reminder, it's rare.

And re your second point, there's already a swearing sticky, but it seems to have slipped a few minds  

[Wireless]

Mmm... I agree with consensus, even though it restricts my human rights of expression under the UN Charter AND I do realise that the right isn't absolute; I am aware that children might be reading over their parents shoulder and tend to agree.

Some things just seem pointless though.

If I write the following sentence, and self edit, what makes it any different from the actual word, the meaning isn't lost?  It being a well known phrase within the English vernacular, and to be absolutely honest, the word being edited out isn't, in this day and age, considered offensive by the majority of the population, indeed child actors use the word as a part of many scripts, although it's not in regular use in my house, editing it away for the sake of being politically correct seems a tad ridiculous...

'People shouldn't go <edit> on their own doorstep'

I ask you, does spelling the word with a set of * instead of <edit> change the meaning or understanding in any way what so ever?  Because we all know what word is missing, and if <edit> is acceptable after moderation, then a row of *, or combination of letters and * should be equally acceptable and require self moderation.

Which words other than the one in question can we use?  Is there a dictionary of words available from the moderators that we can comply with?  As there's children present can I write the word 'poo', or use a phrase that refers to 'poo', such as 'having a number two'?  Do I have to use a child's dictionary or boundaries to express myself?

Rules have been mentioned in a locked thread, but none are posted, either you want to debate the point or not, locking a thread suggests not, posting a new thread on the old thread suggests the moderators do, are you just trying your best to confuse us or is this a genuine mistake?

Issuing general warnings regarding filter content without a comprehensive set of guidelines seems a little odd to be honest, and I realise the lot of a moderator is a difficult task requiring balance and good judgement, and the pay is...I'll risk it...poo!

The PC thing does get out of hand, one forum on which I participate has banned the words 'childish' and 'nasty', replacing 'childish' with the word 'puerile', and replacing 'nasty' with 'EXPLETIVE DELETED!'.

Just keep your eye on the ball and don't be tempted to take action for the sake of paying lip service to 'an idea', that way lies the nanny state.

[att]

The days of becoming hooked up on swear words are long gone in my book. I feel that as a society we are pandering to the namby`s and the PC lot too much, I live in the real world and I swear in all of my worlds.
I try to tone it down out of respect for others on a forum like this one* (*read too PC and too much out of the real world)...But I guess at the end of the day y`all aint my kinda people.......I can live with that. :D   ...On the whole y`all are such nice people that it hurts.....Different worlds an all that I spose`.....

[mike142sl]

I feel that BEFORE we can enjoy our 'rights' we should exercise our 'responsibilities' and I would just like to thank everyone who has met that and 'respected' those of us who are uncomfortable with swearing on this forum.

[thermidorthelobster]

If I write the following sentence, and self edit, what makes it any different from the actual word, the meaning isn't lost?  It being a well known phrase within the English vernacular, and to be absolutely honest, the word being edited out isn't, in this day and age, considered offensive by the majority of the population, indeed child actors use the word as a part of many scripts, although it's not in regular use in my house, editing it away for the sake of being politically correct seems a tad ridiculous...

'People shouldn't go <edit> on their own doorstep'

I ask you, does spelling the word with a set of * instead of <edit> change the meaning or understanding in any way what so ever?  Because we all know what word is missing, and if <edit> is acceptable after moderation, then a row of *, or combination of letters and * should be equally acceptable and require self moderation.

To avoid ambiguity, if you put in "<edit>" I'd accept that, because nobody who doesn't already know the phrase is likely to work it out.  If you put in the full word, of course it should be moderated.  If you put in an s and a few other characters, I'd moderate that out, because it looks to me like you're deliberately trying to hide from the swear filter.  I'd also be a little concerned if you put "****", because a set of asterisks is generally acknowledged as meaning "there's a big swear word in here" in a way that "<edit>" does not;  "****" consequently makes your post slightly more aggressive and whilst it may not be modded, I'd be a little uncomfortable about it.  However, of course the easiest thing is just to avoid that territory altogether.

This isn't to do with being politically correct, it's to do with members knowing their children can happily browse the forum without bumping into content which is not generally acceptable.  Whilst your average 8-year-old may sometimes stumble across that word, most parents would prefer it not to be used unabashedly in front of them.

Which words other than the one in question can we use?  Is there a dictionary of words available from the moderators that we can comply with?  As there's children present can I write the word 'poo', or use a phrase that refers to 'poo', such as 'having a number two'?  Do I have to use a child's dictionary or boundaries to express myself?

My rule of thumb is, if it's used on the Simpsons, it's acceptable.  For example, the word "crap" is sometimes used and isn't filtered.  In modern English it is not regarded as a particularly heinous word.  Ditto with "ass", but bizarelly its English-spelt equivalent with 4 letters is still regarded as less acceptable.  The only major exception I can think of is the p-word, which in American English is totally inoccuous, but in British English is still frowned upon.

If it helps, imagine you're talking loudly to a friend in a fish and chip shop with a table of primary school children sitting next to you.  I don't think you need a dictionary to work out what is and is not acceptable.

Rules have been mentioned in a locked thread, but none are posted, either you want to debate the point or not, locking a thread suggests not, posting a new thread on the old thread suggests the moderators do, are you just trying your best to confuse us or is this a genuine mistake?

Actually there's a mod discussion about centralising all the rules right at the moment.  In the mean time, see sticky posts at the top of the Bar for general rules, and at the top of other sections (eg For Sale) for forum-specific rules.  And don't do anything which isn't compatible with a "fun, family-friendly" forum.

If you wish to discuss any of the rules, feel free to start a new topic, but bear in mind over the 4 years the club's been operating, the rules have been defined for a reason, not arbitrarily.  This doesn't mean they won't be discussed, but does mean that considerable thought has probably already gone into them.  Rules are only added after significant amounts of mod/admin discussion & debate, at the very least.

For example, if somebody thought the word "crap" was not acceptable, then it could easily be debated, and we'd weigh up people's opinions before deciding whether to add it to the filter.  If only one parent out of hundreds didn't like it, it would probably stay put.  OTOH, if many forum users found it unreasonable, it would go.  Bear in mind though that the admins' decision is final, as they own and run the board and are ultimately responsible for it.

Issuing general warnings regarding filter content without a comprehensive set of guidelines seems a little odd to be honest, and I realise the lot of a moderator is a difficult task requiring balance and good judgement, and the pay is...I'll risk it...poo!

It's much simpler than that.  If you post and the forum automatically changes your word to "!Expletive Deleted!", then you've crossed the boundary.  If you then asterisk-out a word, then either you've edited the post to try to avoid the filter, or you wrote it like that in the first place, in which case you're clearly aware at some level that it's dubious word.  So if in doubt, why go there?

[att]

Why go there.....Because playing by all the rules all the time is boring......and it also prohibits growth in certain areas.........Drones R US :roll:

[thermidorthelobster]

If you'd rather have an anarchic forum, then feel free to go and set one up.  This isn't it.

[Bob696]

I would like all blasphamus posts edited. People shouldn't be allowed to use gods name in vain and certainly shouldn't refer to the 'other place' below.

Right, I'm off to church to pray for you all.

While I'm at it I might just burn some of the PC brigade.

[lambert]

People swear it happens. If no-one swore then the words and indeed the concept would disappear from modern culture. However it seems to be a constant of the human condition to vent feelings in a base manner.

[thermidorthelobster]

That's fair enough in speech, but when you're writing a post, you have plenty of time to think about what you're saying, come up with alternatives and hit Submit.

Am I to take it by the responses above that members think swearing SHOULD be allowed on the forums?  Because that's not what's been said in the past.

[att]

That's fair enough in speech, but when you're writing a post, you have plenty of time to think about what you're saying, come up with alternatives and hit Submit.

Am I to take it by the responses above that members think swearing SHOULD be allowed on the forums?  Because that's not what's been said in the past.

I do not think when I type, I just do, if a word is in my head it comes out on my keyboard, that simple........I cannot understand the concept of what it is you are speaking of...... :?

[Keri]

I think there's a need to be careful how far things are taken, otherwise your mud-club member number will beccome just that a "your" number, no individuality.  In a your free to do as we tell you kinda way.

Not trying to start an argument here just joining in on the discussion so no-one get there knickers in an unnecessary twist please.  :roll:

[att]

Indeed you have to be so careful with what you say on here most of the time, I rarely visit because of it so I may be seen as stirring things a bit, but I find this place unique on the web, but not in a good way, more a kind of dumbed down way...Bit like Playschool was in the 70`s.......All syrupy and nice, when all the time you knew the presenters were breeding with each other ferociously.....  :lol:

[Keri]

Well...... im watching my mouth after what happened the other day!

But i can't disagree with you really..... I usually stay in the background alot for fear of upsetting the applecart again again and again.

[Sooty]

I have not commented on these type of threads before as I consider that everyone has there own idea of what is expectable and what is not.
I have a number of children and they are all old enough to be responsible for them selves but when they were young I tried to teach them right from wrong and set an example.
The bottom line is that this is a club.
All clubs have rules otherwise the whole structure of the club collapses.
The rules are made by the people that run the club (in this case the Admin and Moderators) for the benefit of the majority.
If you don't like the rules then find a club that has rules that you do like.
If you can't find a club that suits you then start one and make your own rules.
It is called a free country, this does not mean you can go to the supermarket and take what you want for free.
It mean you can go to any supermarket you like to buy your shopping.
If you don't like the way the club is run then have your say and leave.
Go out into the big wide world and live your life how you want to.

[lambert]

It is not a matter of like it or leave. Its a matter of having checks and ballences to avoid becoming extreme in one particular direction. Its a matter of being able to discuss matters in an open environment. Too much censorship is just as bad as not enough.

[Bob696]

I have no problem with a filter. Just as i have no problem with not using swear words (although what a swear word is has some very wide definitions).

Some people (americans) WOULD take exception to 'Ass'. We in the UK might take exception to another american word for butt that is a female name. Where does it stop?

note 1
Allowing <edit> but not **** is just plain silly  :shock:  (I would have said ludicrus but I cant spell that)

Note 2
I don't like being spoken to like I am child or an idiot.

[Highlander1]

I have no problem with a filter. Just as i have no problem with not using swear words (although what a swear word is has some very wide definitions).

Some people (americans) WOULD take exception to 'Ass'. We in the UK might take exception to another american word for butt that is a female name. Where does it stop?

note 1
Allowing <edit> but not **** is just plain silly  :shock:  (I would have said ludicrus but I cant spell that)

Note 2
I don't like being spoken to like I am child or an idiot.

 =D>  :roll: You did a fine job of spelling THAT.

Sorry mate I'm trying to have a laugh as with all this your quite right.

I usually sit with my wee boy on the computer he's 13years old. We went flying today and crashed the  Radio controlled model plane it was a write off i shrugged my shoulders, he laughed and I asked him what he was laughing at he replied," dad I think the mud club would have that one down as an expletive deleted. :lol:

I don't use naughty words in front of my son. :lol:  :lol:

[Evilgoat]

I think we need to take a long hard look at WHAt is going on.

We are overmoderating, sorry but thats my opinion, its now getting stupid.

You have a swear filter and I think getting upset over <edit> and **** is taking it a bit far. How many four letter words can **** mean? Dozens.

Things have gotten a bit frought from people pushing the rules of late and the Mods are perhaps a little bit trigger happy. About 2 weeks ago this problem didnt exist. I think ALL concerned, not just the meber do need to stop and take a deep breath otherwise this is going to get really draconian, and frankly, the arguments, goading, baiting and payback is starting to get boring.

All take a deep breath and those of you that are baiting the mods (you know full well who you are) stop it, maybe then things will settle down again.

Mud-Club is a great forum, the mods and admins do put in a lot of work, but everyone needs to remeber we are all human and that the rules are there for a reason.

You arent actually required to post if you cant agree with the rules!

[thermidorthelobster]

Just to point out, I didn't say that I would mod ****, and I never have.  But when I read it in the newspaper or whatever it sometimes can come across as a sign of aggression.  That doesn't mean I'd mod it, but it does probably mean I'd be concerned about somebody taking offence to something sooner or later.

However, as we're on the subject of what is and is not acceptable, my point was that I WOULD mod a swear word with *s substituted for some of the letters so it gets through the swear filter.  You have to draw a line somewhere and for me that's not acceptable by the rules of the club.

Take "dogs" as being a swear word.

Should I mod "d*gs"?  How about "d**s"?  Or "d***"?  One thing I aim for is consistency, which means I shouldn't have to have an argument with somebody because I've modded them for d**s but haven't modded somebody else for d*gs or whatever.

Is this really overmoderating and getting stupid?   :?   I always thought moderating was about making sure the rules of the club are enforced, not interpreting them selectively.  I've had to mod about 4 or 5 posts today for language;  and at the same time I'm getting 2 or 3 members complaining that language is getting past the mods.  So what am I supposed to be doing, enforcing the rules or not?

[Evilgoat]

Just to point out, I didn't say that I would mod ****, and I never have.  But when I read it in the newspaper or whatever it sometimes can come across as a sign of aggression.

However, as we're on the subject of what is and is not acceptable, my point was that I WOULD mod a swear word with *s substituted for some of the letters so it gets through the swear filter.  You have to draw a line somewhere and for me that's not acceptable by the rules of the club.

Take "dogs" as being a swear word.

Should I mod "d*gs"?  How about "d**s"?  Or "d***"?  One thing I aim for is consistency, which means I shouldn't have to have an argument with somebody because I've modded them for d**s but haven't modded somebody else for d*gs or whatever.

Is this really overmoderating and getting stupid?   :?   I always thought moderating was about making sure the rules of the club are enforced, not interpreting them selectively.

The point I'm trying to make here is that its not been consistant the last week or so. There has been a definate increase in 'trouble' on the forum this week for reasons we all know. People are also baiting the Mods, above all this MUST stop. But it seems some of you guys are being more jumpy than usual. Its almost as if after last weeks trouble we are trying to stamp down everything.

Front the point of view of the usres the moderation has been hit and miss, and I'm not blaming any one person for this. Some things have been let slide, then all hell breaks loose over <expletive>.

I'm not having a go at anyone in particulay but as I said already, from my point of view everyone needs to step back and take a breath. The baiting really should stop though.

I'm saying nout more ont his and please dont take this as a personal attack, its not meant as one.

[Steve ray]

Far too much moderating and too many "trigger-happy" mods (in my opinion) on MC ......

I don't go out of my way to swear, but I must say that over the last year or two I've been a member, a lot of mods have adopted a "high n mighty" attitude, hiding behind the "rules" and being far too 'PC' instead of taking a pragmatic approach.

[Wolfie]

The club has a no swearing rule - FACT

EVERY member of the club HAS agreed to abide by this rule - FACT

Look at what you agreed to when you joined. http://forums.mud-club.com/profile.php?mode=register

Consider whether we actually WANT to have do do so much moderating.

[att]

Far too much moderating and too many "trigger-happy" mods (in my opinion) on MC ......

I don't go out of my way to swear, but I must say that over the last year or two I've been a member, a lot of mods have adopted a "high n mighty" attitude, hiding behind the "rules" and being far too 'PC' instead of taking a pragmatic approach.

Indeed.

It`s a ******* travesty

I would just like to add that I spelled a word with a 5 the other letters were hit...This was not trying to 'beat' a swear filter, I just thought I was being respectful :roll:

I have not yet opened the mods PM as I am unsure as to how I am going to respond......It may well involve prams and rattles, but it may also be roses and chocolate...

Whatever...The world keeps spinning and I keep waking up...Life is easy............ :D

[L90OOK]

Far too much moderating and too many "trigger-happy" mods (in my opinion) on MC ......

I don't go out of my way to swear, but I must say that over the last year or two I've been a member, a lot of mods have adopted a "high n mighty" attitude, hiding behind the "rules" and being far too 'PC' instead of taking a pragmatic approach.

My tuppence worth to all who have a problem with MC...

Mud Club is FREE to one & all who wish to use it.  If this FREE forum has a few rules that we have to follow then so be it.
If you don't like the FREE forum, it's rules, admins, moderators or by which means its run please feel free to start your own forum & see how much time & expense goes into running a site like this...instead of moaning about this one is run. :roll:  :smack:

I for one am pleased MC is moderated as my kids like to read the forum posts too.

A big thank you to all who own & run a excellent FREE forum.  \:D/

[datalas]

There are an astoundingly few number of swear words in the word filter, initially we only put the ones which we as admins / founders thought were particularly offensive, for reasons which I don't think we need to explain.

Since then, we have traditionally had complaints from people, notably parents about particular words in threads which they, or their children were reading and these were removed and in some cases added to the swear filter where we thought appropriate.

In those cases people were informed and the appropriate threads moderated.  Now, back in these days there was an element of self moderated context.  Well, what do I mean by that?  Simple really the parents and hence presumably the children were naturally attracted to particular conversations and avoided others.  This is what initially led to what could be described as an uneven means of moderation.  However it does by and large work and doesn't apply what could be construed as too restrictive a set of rules on adults having an "adult" conversation.

So what went wrong?  Well generally people who should know better started abusing the system.  In cases where moderation was applied they either took it personally or viewed it as some form of highly belittling insult and then read every other topic on the forum using the lack of moderation in those threads to excuse their swearing.

Now, perhaps I'm stupid, but I would rather dearly love to see a return to the good old days where moderators were allowed to moderate and were given enough respect that people just accepted the moderation and didn't view it as a vindictive assault on their entire existence.

Yes it's censorship to a degree, but as the saying goes freedom does not come without a price, and that price is that we must all show a degree of restraint where it is appropriate.

Now, I've just come back from a really pathetic weekend and whilst I like an open debate as much as the next man I fear we are not going to get one.  What we will get is people saying "but you don't like me and I should be allowed to swear".  Such a desire is your right as an individual, but please ask yourself why you feel the need to swear in the first place.

I don't post as much as I used to, simply because every time I do I get drawn into an argument or belittled.  You feel as if you can't swear, well I sympathise I really do, however I feel as if I'm not allowed to say anything or have an opinion.  

Besides, it isn't moderation, it's just a linguistic challenge to be able to express yourself adequately with a restricted vocabulary.

[Sooty]

At the end of the day the rules are there for everyone to read, before and after they ask to join the club
When you asked to join you gave your word that you would abide by the rules.
This is not a PC point but a request that as an honest man you are true to your word, and before anyone starts saying that I am calling them dishonest that is not what I am doing, I have made promises in the past and than not stayed true to my word because I am not perfect and forget now and again, but I don't complain when someone reminds me of what I agreed to weather it be in a polite way or no. I just say sorry to the person and promise that I will try not to let it happen again.
Sorry if anyone is offended by this.
My final word on the subject.