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Offline Iain C

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« on: September 14, 2007, 16:25:13 »
Honest opinions please people!

Winter approaches and I'm finally going to start getting the old girl dirty.  At the moment, I have a full +2 lift all round, but as it's a 300 it has ARBs front and back.  During some mild off roading one of the rears inverted and it was a pain to sort out.

Shall I just take the ARBs off?  Or just the rear?  Or will a 2" at the back spacer do the job?  Bear in mind that the vehicle does get driven on road much more than off it!

HOWEVER, I have 265/75/16s and no arch cuts (although small camel cut happening very soon before I get it muddy!)  I realise that the ARBs limit articulation a little bit (although I do have proper +2" Procomp shocks), is that actually a good thing to save mashed bodywork...so are spacers my best option?

ALSO, the only bit of the MM4x4 +2" kit I have not fitted is the extended brake hoses, mainly because I was going to change some slightly suspect brake pipes at the same time and I did not fancy bleeding my brakes twice.  Am I better to just go for a cheapo bit of box section at the back to drop the ARB, as full articulation with no ARB could result in snapped hoses and crap brakes?

Thanks in advance...
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2007, 17:12:13 »
most people i know, including myself have removed all arb's,and with new suspension lift kit, drives ok on the road, probably wouldnt really notice them gone, but there is nothing wrong with packing them with a bit of box to match your suspension lift, however if you are going to do some serious mucking about, they do limit your articulation.
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Offline bilge rat

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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2007, 18:39:41 »
took mine off me blue one mud tyres but std suspension me red one is totaly standard inc oil leaks but to drive not a great deal of difference, the other thing is think you'll find they didnt even fit them to all 200's. iff you decide to space them  i think tow bar spacers are the same stud distance,  alan...
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Offline Steven

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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 18:50:05 »
Quote
with a bit of box to match your suspension lift


Whats that mean?  :oops:
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Offline Terranosaurus

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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2007, 18:53:33 »
Quote from: "91Steven"
Quote
with a bit of box to match your suspension lift


Whats that mean?  :oops:


Think he means box section (steel).
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Offline Skibum346

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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2007, 19:16:07 »
Ian,

Mine has no ARB's, now has the 2" lift and is no problem on road. So for what it's worth I'd dispose of them, as it gives you some more performance when you do get it muddy.

However... you need to get those brake pipes done... Relying on the ARB's to limit articulation would, IMHO be a mistake. For instance, if one flips again... it may allow enough articulation to damage the flexi pipes.

If you want to change some of the fixed piping as well I have copper, unions and a flaring kit if you need it and would be happy to help out.

Skibum
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Offline Iain C

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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2007, 10:16:25 »
Skibum

That would be great, when suits you?

Iain
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Offline Skibum346

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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2007, 11:13:40 »
I can pop round one or more nights this week if you like.

Sunday is out...as it's here already... as is next weekend.

Skibum
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2007, 18:02:27 »
yes i did mean a bit of steel box section.
if you have a 2" lift use a bit of 2x2 box, 3"lift, 3x2 box, etc, if you get my drift.
easy way to solve the problem and for once doesnt cost hardly anything, or you could buy them already cut and drilled from someone, but then they start creeping up in price, and no, i do not supply them.
find a local engineering company or sumit.
cheers
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Offline Jason2985

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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 18:11:57 »
:D
Wizardbilt does the spacers but they are £50.
I have taken my rear ARB off as it kept inverting on me.
I have a Brit part 2" lift springs and +2" Pro-Comp shocks.
I need the extended hoses.
Also i believe that if your car has ARB`s fitted as standard then it has to have them on for the M.O.T.
But i could be wrong.
There was a thread on the Discovery Owners Club forum a week back and thats what they were saying.

Jay
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Offline L90OOK

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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2007, 18:16:53 »
Quote from: "Jason2985"
:D
Also i believe that if your car has ARB`s fitted as standard then it has to have them on for the M.O.T.
But i could be wrong.
Jay


You are correct, if it's there as original fitment then it supposed to be there for MOT...but it's up to the MOT'er to prove it came off the production line with one fitted  :twisted:
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Offline NIVAD

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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2007, 18:17:54 »
inverted arb's is this common and what does it do does it stop you from driving??
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Offline 4 landies

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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2007, 02:00:30 »
Towbar spacers are the same stud distance and do the job perfectly, have seen them for sale upto 2" thick
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Offline Tig

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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 18:12:57 »
Quote from: "Jason2985"

Also i believe that if your car has ARB`s fitted as standard then it has to have them on for the M.O.T.
But i could be wrong.
There was a thread on the Discovery Owners Club forum a week back and thats what they were saying.

Jay
That was possibly me and yes, I had loads of problems with the ARB inverting and flattening the solid brake pipe against the rear axle :shock:
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Offline Iain C

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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 23:31:21 »
After some swearing and the loss of a few knuckles the rear ARB is off...do people tend to take the front one off too?
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Offline Steven

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« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2007, 21:48:34 »
Quote from: "Iain C"
After some swearing and the loss of a few knuckles the rear ARB is off...do people tend to take the front one off too?


Please get back to us what you think of the ride on the road matey, now thats its off  :)
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Offline Iain C

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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2007, 22:41:14 »
I have to say with the rear one off it certainly does feel a bit more wallowy...odd as it may sound I think it may handle better if I take the front one off too...at least the axles will be in agreement!

When I got my Disco (at standard height on road tyres) I was amazed how well it handled to be honest (and bear in mind I'm usually driving a BMW 3 series or an MX5, neither of those RWD cars are known for woolly handling!) and by sticking fat tyres on it  and a 2" lift it's certainly spoiled it's on road manners a bit.  However as it's not a daily driver it will usually either be towing or going playing somewhere, so it's all a question of compromise!

Having already inverted the ARB, and having been told "take it off before you break it off" it had to go!  However,just in case circumstances change, there's a big pile of tyres, springs, shocks and now ARBs at the bottom of my garden!
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Offline clbarclay

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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2007, 22:54:49 »
Quote from: "Iain C"
I have to say with the rear one off it certainly does feel a bit more wallowy...odd as it may sound I think it may handle better if I take the front one off too...at least the axles will be in agreement!


Depends what you mean by agreement, the nature of the radius arm suspension on the front means that it is kind of like an inbuilt ARB anyway compared to the 3 link rear suspension.
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Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2007, 13:37:12 »
The front ARB will not bind up like the back one but it will limit the articulation, much more than the back one as it's thicker.

It shouldn't fail the MOT for being removed, the car is modified, so as long as the insurance knows that's ok.  If it fails the MOT take it somewhere that knows what they are doing!

I'm looking at making disconnects for mine, I hate the handling without ARB, in fact Blue has 3 of them and the LSE has uprated ones.
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Offline Iain C

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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2007, 21:38:57 »
Let me know how you get on with the disconnects...as I do do some road work with my Disco I'll leave the front ARB on for now going on what you are saying.

Laning in Derbyshire tomorrow so we'll see how I get on...I've packed the socket set just in case!
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Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2007, 14:18:24 »
Will do but don't hold your breath.  My mate with the machine shop in his shed has just become a dad :D
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Offline Iain C

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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2007, 00:04:56 »
Hmm, I think it needs to come off.  Have a look at this and see what the back axle (no ARB) is doing compared to the front...even the good Dr Neil makes a comment about ARBs still being in place!!  

http://www.youtube.com/user/iaindchristie
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Offline JPJ

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Just do it!
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2007, 19:07:28 »
I recently fitted a 2" lift to my Disco including rear dislocation cones and extended brake hoses.
Also took off the front and rear Anti Roll bars.
Went to Wales the very next weekend and did the Wayfarer and a few other lanes. The ride was just as good as with the anti roll bars there, admitedly the springs are stiffer. Going up the A5 the roundabouts did not produce any noticeable roll and off road the articualtion was great.
In other words - just do it!
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Offline BigA

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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2007, 16:43:21 »
I have a +2" lift on mine with Pro comp shocks, and removed both ARB's and handles just as well on road (if not better)

I have had an MOT since removing the ARB's and passed fine, the tester even asked how it handled without them fitted, as he didn't notice any difference when he took for a drive ?

I have 265/75/16 BFG's, and even with the camel cut, during the Billing bash weekend i still caught the tyres on the arches and took some rubber off around the edges, i am still to figure out how to cure this one.

I haven't yet fitted the extended brake hoses, as i cant get the existing ones undone, and had no problems yet ?

Hope this helps ?
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Offline Skibum346

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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2007, 16:56:33 »
Quote from: "BigA"
I haven't yet fitted the extended brake hoses, as i cant get the existing ones undone


Buy some copper, unions and a flaring kit... chop the old pipes and renew them!

It's a doddle!

Skibum
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Offline Range Rover Blues

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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2007, 18:06:58 »
My problem is the car was lifted when we bought it so I notice a huge difference when I remove the ARBs.  They need something doing as I currently have 3 on this car to make it handle how I like it to.  It's way too stiff off-road though.
http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/Range%20Rover%20Blues/gallery/Flexing/0/3fef4732c25724ec17c36ddae4579ebc.JPG/
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