HDtv confusion

[Edge]

Looking for a lcd tv (never owned one before!) for my new home, i came across this bit of info....

HDTV-compatible means that the TV can receive a HD-signal(720p/1080i) and display it, but not with the highest HD-quality. This might be because the TV:s resolution is too low or the TV might be missing the digital inputs required (DVI and/or HDMI with HDCP support).

Question...
Can anyone decipher it and tell me in plain english, what do i need to display the highest quality-HD" :?:

I was under the impression hd-tv's were all supposed to be of the highest quality.... Is this just another misleading campaign by industry.... like the compact disc was (re: sound quality).

[bigfatsi]

Firstly which HD feed are you going to give it? Sky HD? Bluray/HD-DVD PS4?

Generally speaking, if it supports 720p or 1080i and has an HDMI connection it'll display HD. Some older ones have DVI connections instead but these are few and far between. The newer panels will accept resolutions even higher than this (such as 1080p etc etc)

Don't get bogged down with it. An ardent techy-videophile wouldn't ask such a question so I presume you're not one! In real terms look at what you'll plug into it and make sure it's got enough inputs (2xHDMI is really much better) then it's a case of looking at the picture and finding one you like. For hours of research and some interesting reading try www.avforums.com . Fantastic resource and can answer any question.

HTH

Simon

[Edge]

Thanks Simon :D  :D .
Its all so confusing!!! I'm even more wary now ive just read all 3 pages of this
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/30/hd_buyers_guide_uk/
Seems like a mine field... and i could end up with a worse picture (depending on what devices... camcorder/xbox/dvd/playstation i plug into it).
I'll go check out the link you supplied.
Thanks.

[Bulli]

firstly , why lcd?

plasma and dlp technology are both good, im not knocking lcd just wondered why.

secondly what HD are you going to be playing on it?

i think its a similar thing to waterproof in as much as the govt set a standard and anything that exceeds that standard is defined as HD.

There is still very little on Sky in HD, so you need to buy an hd or bluray player. The best value bluray and HD offerings,IMHO, are the ps3 and the xbox.

either way have fun. btw i have a sagum dlp and the picture is very good at 48 inch its clear as a bell and that without hd running.....i dont have sky HD box or  a player lol....maybe Santa will be kind lol

[thermidorthelobster]

There are 3 hi-def standards.  1080p and 1080i are the same resolution (number of dots on the screen), but 1080p is a progressive signal and 1080i is interlaced, so the 1080p signal should give technically the best image, although tbh I'm not convinced people would notice much difference.

The other resolution is 720i.  This gives a less detailed image in terms of the number of dots on the display, but with smaller screens where you physically can't shoehorn so many dots on the screen, it's still a better image quality than standard TV.

HD Ready means a set will receive signals in one of these 3 formats.  Most mid-range sets of 28"+ will handle a 1080i signal.  Smaller sets will be 720i, and large expensive sets will handle 1080p.  Any of these 3 signals will give much better quality than normal TV.

You can run the signal into the telly using more than 1 type of connector.  HDMI is the standard connector for hi-def connections so if you get a telly with more than one of these connectors you'll be able to connect hi-def DVD players, PlayStations, HDD recorders etc as and when you get them.

So if you want the highest quality, go for a set which supports 1080p signals and has 2 or more HDMI connectors.

HTH

[discowoman]

we were loking at all the usual suspects when it comes to lcd/plasma tv's and ended up buying a DUAL LCD from asda - as the picture was by far the best of any on display and also the price £249 for a 28" (cant really go much bigger due to space) also had a 3 years warrenty- useful with a 3 year old with special needs!!!!!
pic through sky is fine, and on the 360 is amazing!!
as a side note give the LG offerings a good look, as a local electrical outlet has taken to displaying them AWAY from Sony's big bucks tv's as people were commenting on the LG's better picture !! lol

[thermidorthelobster]

Oh, by the way, before you go and buy an HDMI cable for £25-£50 from your friendly electrical retailer, check eBuyer and eBay where they go for under a fiver for a cable which will give you exactly the same quality.  Don't be fooled by gold connections etc;  it's a digital signal, so either the cable works or it doesn't.

[BrumLee]

Plasma or LCD go for one with a PC-link port (VGA). Picture quality is crisp, you can play movies from your hard-drive, watch freeview in near HD quality with a freeview DVB-PCI card fitted (also record programs). I get a lovely picture on the LG 50" Plasma from a laptop that only has a low end graphics accelerator. I'm getting a Cube-PC as a media centre as they're small enough not to be distracting when on display  8) Browsing the net on a 50" screen is an experience and MC looks better than ever  

Also you can download HDTV programs from the net as the US has far more choice than us, plus I think SKY HD for a tenner a month is a rip-off for the amount of HDTV channels they provide, or that I'd watch. There is talk that BBC and ITV will be introducing a HDTV system, one off payment and no subscription. Those with Virgin Media get HDTV channels free with their XL and V+ packages  8)

[Edge]

Thanks everyone :D .
Main LCD television advantages over plasma include:

No burn-in of static images. (Heard this is a wives tale anyway).
Cooler running temperature. (some lcd's run quite hot).
No high altitude use issues. (don't live in the Alps).
Increased image brightness over plasma. (no need for lamps/lights).

Main disadvantages of LCD vs. Plasma televisions include:

Lower contrast ratio, not as good rendering deep blacks.
Not as good at tracking motion.

Ive been advised to go for LCD if i want 32" or lower (probably cos plasma 32" is only just about to be released in the uk).
My place aint big enough for anything larger than 32". Hoping to run my 360/laptop through the tv & have it wall mounted (not too high though).

[wingman]

No burn-in of static images. (Heard this is a wives tale anyway).

It's not a wives tale;  look at the plasma screens showing flight departure times in Heathrow for proof of burn-in.

Word has it that newer screens don't have this problem.  Personally if I'm spending several hundred quid I'm not taking that risk.  LCD screens are proven reliable and long-lasting and the fact that they produce better images in bright light too does it for me.

[strapping young lad]

the best possible hi dev you will get if you can get a 1080p CRT screen apparently (not popular)

the main thing that put me off a plasma was that they are twice as heavy more or less than an equivalent sized lcd.

ive got a 40" samsung that does 1080p

the thing is though is that you may get cheaper tv's that does the same resolution however something to look out for is the contrast ratio, the samsung i have is 15000:1 the cheaper ones are half that

BUT HD-READY does not mean it does 1080p (the current highest standard)  im not sure what is the basic criteria but ive been told it aint

ie they are all equal but some are more equal than others ;)


...NB
dont bother with SKY HD until more channels come out! cheaper now to get a ps3, with a blueray player (the 40gb has less bells and whistles, ignoring the hd size) and rent dvd's from online places such as lovefilm.com or amazon

much cheaper over the year than to get sky HD then the extra 10 a month it costs to get sky HD

but if the length of your HDMI cable needs to be higher than, say 3 metres, get a high quality one as longer cables cannot handle the bandwidth for the HD signal and there is degradation...

in other words dont buy an expensive TV and have cheap cables which defeats the object!

[Welshbreed]

Simple answer

"HD ready" means it will accept HDTV signals, but probably has limited resolution.

an actual HDtv will cost far to much, unless you import it (starting about £400 in america or £850 - £3000,00 in the UK)

HDMI cables are looking to be the norm and are fitted to x-box 360 and ps3 I believe.

Remember kids, every computer monitor (thats primarily a computer not a tv) will be in High Def, some newer ones also come with HDMI ports, but are rather expensive for a monitor (cheap for a TV) but obviously thay'd only make small TV's.

[strapping young lad]

hence when you buy graphics cards these days they come with DVI outputs not the good old vga adaptor..



but you can get adaptors so you can put your pc onto a modern tv in hi def

[JumboBeef]

Old wives' tail: HDtv is much better than SDtv. If you only watch HD DVDs etc, then it is slightly better but for the 99% of people who watch X-factor, Doc Martin and Top Gear, then, no.

I have a 42" Plasma Panasonic TV, bought three years ago (for £3,000) and I use Sky.  As just about everything everyone watches on TV is in SD and not HD, then my SDtv showing SD gives a better picture than a HDtv showing SDtv.

I used to work in TV and I worked on a HiDeff TV prog back in 1989 :shock: It still hasn't caught on really and HD has many, many more years before it becomes main stream, if ever (just wait for the next big thing).

My advice: buy a well known brand (would a lesser brand Plasma still be going strong after three years?  The picture on my one is PERFECT), and choose one which you gives you best picture when watching of the sort of thing you normally watch (no point watching Matrix on DVD in the shop if you will be watching mainly football on it).

I wouldn't worry too much about "maybe you'll use this or that in five years time" because you can bet there will be something new next year, and you'll get a new telly before you use all the fuctions.

"HD-ready, Future Proof" my ....foot.

[laser_jock99]

Just make sure it's a 1080P (Tru HD) set if you want the best.

[Range Rover Blues]

They covered this in a recent what li-fi sound and vison article and as said above, if your screen is below about 36 inches it's hardly worth going 1080.

720 is the minimum standard for HDTV but interstingly is also the same resolution available via componenet video cable, also called RGB but in truth 3 cables carrying colour, luminescence and contrast IIRC.  This is what I'm using from my (6 month) old DVD into my new 1080p 46" TV and the picture is damn good.

Given the lack of DVDs that play 1080p it seems a bit of overkill but you need to future proof yourself a bit, I don't inted buying another TV for many years and have a warranty to cover all eventualities.

So I suggest a 1080 for a bigger TV, make sure it's got plenty of inputs, say 2 HD and one composite as a minimum, then make the best of whatever source you have until HD-DVD comes down in price after Christmas.

As for HD sources, I won't pay for Sky so it's either console (which claim to play DVD) or a DVD player.

There are already DVD players that upscale to 1080i which as explained above is not quite as good as 1080p but I defy you to notice the difference on a machine that is basically increasing the resolution electronically, that is making up data that isn't there.

The you have Blueray versus HD-DVD.  Blue ray is by far the better standard with about 4 times the information available, but then betamax was better than VHS.

I'm told the deciding factor in that battle was the "adult film" industry and is likely to be again, blue ray is way too expensive for low-budget films.

I know whichever I buy will be the new betamax so I'm staying on the fence.  After Christmas expect a new crop of DVD players that play both formats, but they will be expensive. As it is the few good DVD players that play one format or the other are around £1,000 :shock:

The cheapest way of getting either Blue ray (playstation 3) or HD-DVD (X-Box plus DVD drive) is to buy the games console, though they aren't dedicated movie machines and apparently you can really tell.

Scared yet? wait till you see the price of the films themselves then, Blueray titles are around £30-40 a piece and will only play on a blue ray player (as HD-DVD will only play on HD-DVD).

Great, so to get anything better than you had before on composite video (720 lines) you have to buy a TV, DVD player and a new collection of films

Sod it, go outside and get muddy instead

[BrumLee]

There are already DVD players that upscale to 1080i which as explained above is not quite as good as 1080p but I defy you to notice the difference on a machine that is basically increasing the resolution electronically, that is making up data that isn't there.

Just bought one of these as most of my DVD collection is from Hong Kong. Good reviews and free P&P  

[Range Rover Blues]

That's a good price, most in the shops are around £60-70 still.

One thing the magazines go on about it native resolution, forgot to mension this above.  To get the very best outof your equipemtn then the source and the monitor should be at the same resolution, then there is no uprscaling/rescaling to spoil the picture quality.

Just one more thing to think about.

[Welshbreed]

I used to work in TV and I worked on a HiDeff TV prog back in 1989 :shock: It still hasn't caught on really and HD has many, many more years before it becomes main stream, if ever (just wait for the next big thing)

In america they've a satalite system (not sky) that offers 70+ HDTV channels, I think it's called Direct TV. Seen adverts on the NFLNetwork (online TV for American football by Yahoo)

http://www.directv.com

looks like it's the one. Just a matter of time before it becomes available in the UK hopefully

[JumboBeef]

I used to work in TV and I worked on a HiDeff TV prog back in 1989 :shock: It still hasn't caught on really and HD has many, many more years before it becomes main stream, if ever (just wait for the next big thing)

In america they've a satalite system (not sky) that offers 70+ HDTV channels, I think it's called Direct TV. Seen adverts on the NFLNetwork (online TV for American football by Yahoo)

http://www.directv.com

looks like it's the one. Just a matter of time before it becomes available in the UK hopefully

I'm not saying it's not out there, but it still has a very long way to go.  I mean, most of the viewing public are still not yet even digital!

I stand by what I said, if you watch 'normal' type TV programmes and don't have a collection of DVDs for your viewing plesure, just buy the best one which fits in your budget from a good manufacturer

[littlepow]

HDTV-compatible means that the TV can receive a HD-signal(720p/1080i) and display it, but not with the highest HD-quality. This might be because the TV:s resolution is too low or the TV might be missing the digital inputs required (DVI and/or HDMI with HDCP support).

If you want HDtv, go for digital built in. Then look for a resolution of at least 1000:1 or higher. Bigger then number the better the picture colouring capabilities. For modern gaming machines, look for at least 5000:1.

Don't be over swayed by PC connectivity, there not really designed for the task. But can be used for short periods of time without major problems.

HDMI inputs are usefull for Xbox 360/Playstation 3 connectivity.

Most LCD / Plasma are ratyed to last about 5000hrs use. Which is the same as most CRT's.

LCD use less power than Plasma and unless you want to go above 36", are not worth the premium.

Dpi is dependant on screen size to some extent, so it's not something to be over worried about.

LCD and Plasma both have a greater screen visibality area for size than CRT.

No burn-in of static images. (Heard this is a wives tale anyway).

It's not a wives tale;  look at the plasma screens showing flight departure times in Heathrow for proof of burn-in.

All screens will get burn through if the picture doesn't change. CRT are the worse for it. But it will effect LCD and Plasma too.

[cardiff_gareth]

I personally prefer LCD, I have 3 now. My mate has a plasma and it all looks too blocky in terms of colour. We were watching football and the grass just looked artificial, like I was playing Pro evo or something, I find the LCD picture quality far better than Plasma.

If you get a HD TV then you should also get an Xbox 360 that has a HD output already on it    :lol:

[thermidorthelobster]

If you want HDtv, go for digital built in. Then look for a resolution of at least 1000:1 or higher. Bigger then number the better the picture colouring capabilities. For modern gaming machines, look for at least 5000:1.

Actually the 1000:1 has nothing to do with the resolution.  It's the contrast ratio;  the difference in brightness between the lightest lights and the darkest darks.

All screens will get burn through if the picture doesn't change. CRT are the worse for it. But it will effect LCD and Plasma too.

Are you sure?  I am 99% sure LCD screens are simply not affected by burn-in.  Having used LCD screens on computers for many, many years, with the perfect conditions for burn-in (on 12 hours a day, same logos in same places all the time, high contrast) I'd have thought if it were technically possible, I'd have seen it happen by now.  But from the way LCD screens work I can't see how it would be possible.

[Edge]

Absolutely amazing replies on this topic guys Big thank you to all.
You've all been very helpful.... i'm guessing there'll be plenty of other "wanna be" plasma/lcd owners out there who've benefited from all your advice too.
 =D>  =D>  =D>

[laser_jock99]

I know whichever I buy will be the new betamax so I'm staying on the fence.  After Christmas expect a new crop of DVD players that play both formats, but they will be expensive. As it is the few good DVD players that play one format or the other are around £1,000 :

I bought a Samsung Blu-Ray player to go with our 47" 1080p LCD- so I hope doesn't go obsolete too quickly. Luckily I only paid 350 quid for the Blu-ray player which some outlets were still selling for 1000 pounds at the same time. The player makes a good job of upscaling standard DVD's to 1080p but Blu-Ray does look good on a bigger screen. Like you say the cheaper HD-DVD format will probably win the day.....



EDIT- just added a picture of my wall mounted hidden wire, home cinema installation- I'm quite pleased with how it went. Had to chisel a 2" deep chanel into the chimney brickwork to take the huge cable bundle!

[JumboBeef]

Er, how on earth do you watch it up there, with your sofas facing each other?

My 42" is on it's stand, at the far end of the room, eye level and dead square to the 'main' sofa.

[littlepow]

All screens will get burn through if the picture doesn't change. CRT are the worse for it. But it will effect LCD and Plasma too.

Are you sure?  I am 99% sure LCD screens are simply not affected by burn-in.  Having used LCD screens on computers for many, many years, with the perfect conditions for burn-in (on 12 hours a day, same logos in same places all the time, high contrast) I'd have thought if it were technically possible, I'd have seen it happen by now.  But from the way LCD screens work I can't see how it would be possible.

It is a problem we had/have with some of the screens we use at work to display info in the same grid format. The grid is starting to show as ghosting on the screen when the picture is change. But this is not on the smaller monitors, but the larger ones. But ours run 24hrs a day 7 days a week!

[laser_jock99]

Er, how on earth do you watch it up there, with your sofas facing each other?

My 42" is on it's stand, at the far end of the room, eye level and dead square to the 'main' sofa.

There's other seats in the room not shown in the picture!

[JumboBeef]

Oh, OK.

Just wondered why you mounted it so high, as your eyes are designed to work on the horizontal or looking slightly down, looking up for long periods causes eye strain.

[thermidorthelobster]

It's because if he'd mounted it lower down, it would catch fire  :D