just when you thought the petrol v diesel debate had finished......

[davidlandy]

.....just when you thought that that petrol v diesel debate had finished.....

then audi unleash the R8 V12 tdi - 493bhp and 1000 nm of torque!
0-60 in 4 secs or so - a diesel supercar!

I want one
http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/experience/Studies/Audi_R8_V12_TDI_concept.html

[Tommo]

1000 torques!

TOP GEAR HAVE BRAINWASHED YOU WITH THEIR "well its not correct but maybe people will understand it more if we dumb it down" TECHNICAL TERMS.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Clarkson gets right on my tits when he says things like that. he isnt a car enthusiast he is a journalist. a very good one.

[davidlandy]

no need to shout at me Tommo  [-X

changed it to nm to make you happy.

[Guardian.]

dont know if they will build it but audi are doing some cracking motors at the moment.

[Disco Matt]

I wonder if this will change Clarksons' views on diesels. I mean, he loves Audis (or anything German), and it's a supercar...

Now, could I get that sort of power from the diesel V8 as fitted to the Range Rover Sport? Only I'm thinking that engine would probably fit in my car... :twisted:

[Wolfie]

changed it to nm to make you happy.

<Pedant> I would be happy if you had changed it to Nm (Newton metre) rather than nm (nano metre) </Pedant> :lol:

[Tommo]

sorry :oops:

I wasnt shouting at you, its top gear that i get angry at.

740lbs/ft of torque, that is quite a lot! ill bet it would make a good tow car.

[davidlandy]

changed it to nm to make you happy.

<Pedant> I would be happy if you had changed it to Nm (Newton metre) rather than nm (nano metre) </Pedant> :lol:

jeez :roll: - and your supposed to be the sensible one!   ;) ;)

[datalas]

Why is the Prius a petrol ?  I thought diesels were supposed to be more efficient :?

[auf_wiedersehen_pet]

Very, very nice!  :lol:

[paulhumphries]

Why is the Prius a petrol ?  I thought diesels were supposed to be more efficient :?

I went to a lecture by Leoni, who make automotive wiring harnesses, and this question was raised.
Answer was the US hasn't the same quality diesel fuel as Europe as the main users are large commercial vehicles.
That means the US public tend to prefer petrol engines and thus manufacturers have to take into account their "target" customers.
Making the Prius a diesel would have many US potential buyers dismissing it instantly and therefore Toyota decided to go with a petrol unit.

FWIW It seem the Prius battery pack has a limited life (I think approx 5 years in normal use / driving) and when it need replacing it's already estimated that new packs will cost more then the secondhand value of the vehicle  :roll:
It'll be interesting to see if this proves true.

Paul Humphries

[davidlandy]

Why is the Prius a petrol ?  I thought diesels were supposed to be more efficient :?

diesels are a more efficient engine - one of the selling points of the prius would be the extra torque delivered by the electric motor at low engine revs - if they had fitted a diesel engine in the first place there probably wouldnt had been much need for the electric motor....and therefore not much need for the prius I guess. its a gimmick/PR stunt/ headline grabber car in my view.

[ChrisV8]

 :twisted: :twisted:The Pratus is the biggest con trick out and those who buy them want their heads examining. The batteries they use alone cause more pollutant in excavation in Canada, refining in Wales, making in Japan (yes work out the mileages thatre !!) before we even get into what you do with the things when they have had it. First generation ones batteries are failing now, £4k to replace !!!!! Very economic not !!!

If you don't believe read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Hidden%20Cost%20of%20Driving%20a%20Prius%20Commentary.pdf

[Range Rover Blues]

There was that dust-to-dust survey in the 'states showing the Hummer was far better for the environment than the pious because of how long it lasted and what it takes to build/maintain/recycle.

BTW, petrol engines typically yield 44Kw/kg, deisels only 42Kw/Kg.  Diesel is only more "efficient" because you measure it by volume and not weight.

[davidlandy]

There was that dust-to-dust survey in the 'states showing the Hummer was far better for the environment than the pious because of how long it lasted and what it takes to build/maintain/recycle.

BTW, petrol engines typically yield 44Kw/kg, deisels only 42Kw/Kg.  Diesel is only more "efficient" because you measure it by volume and not weight.

didnt mean power to weight - its about how much of the energy contained within the fuel is turned into power rather into heat or noise etc...  a diesel does a better job of this than a petrol.

[TDi90]

OH MY GOD  :shock: looks MINT. that has to be one of the best looking cars EVER cirtainly in the top 5 for me  :clap:

well done audi, you guys just keep getting better and better  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :dance:

[Silvery Thing]

FWIW It seem the Prius battery pack has a limited life (I think approx 5 years in normal use / driving) and when it need replacing it's already estimated that new packs will cost more then the secondhand value of the vehicle  :roll:
It'll be interesting to see if this proves true.

The Prius hybrid system has a 7 year warranty and everything has a limited life :-.

Pratus, Pius.... here we go again good grief there are some pompous opinions in here :-.

[TDi90]

sorry, i cant stop staring its SEX on wheels  :shock:

[davidlandy]

Awesome isnt it - drooool

im gonna have another look at the engine!  mmmm V12

[Disco Matt]

Sorry, it just hasn't got enough soul for me - I have yet to find a German car with much in the way of character. Polished and perfect they may be, but I like a few quirks!

[auf_wiedersehen_pet]

Polished and perfect they may be, but I like a few quirks!

That's why we drive Land Rovers.
 :twisted: :twisted:

[S188]

Sorry, it just hasn't got enough soul for me - I have yet to find a German car with much in the way of character. Polished and perfect they may be, but I like a few quirks!

Never had a go in an old rear engined VW then?  Plenty of quirks there, and a fair few bits that aren't perfect!

Not sure I agree with modern german cars being so perfect they are soleless, I think being well engineered with detail IS part of their carictor!  You can tell someones put far too much thort into little details that aren't really that important but make you (well me) grin when you notice them.  That said many new german cars don't have enough carictor for me, my Dad has a very nice new VW Caravelle which is a good vehicle, but in 5 years time when they replace it with the next model I can't seem myself missing the old one.  The real sole less cars are usally the Japanese cars, technicly they are often very good but you don't get any passion from them, its just a car that'll be replaced in afew years.

Do I like the R8?  Very much so, and a diesel version makes it a pritty significant machine.  All the work they are putting in at Le Mans, sucsessfully, it makes sence for them to start offering a mental diesel road car for the (rich) public.

[Silvery Thing]

Nicely put S188 :-k

soleless.... carictor.... thort.... sole less.... thechnicly.... pritty :doh: :clap: ;) :roll:

[Krull]

I see someone is being annoyed by people calling the Prius silly names. do you own one?

My mate had one and it was awful. build quality was pathetic and it never ever did the mpg he was told it should.

i had to have a lift in it once and the worst thing was people pointing and laffing at us  =;

he sold it and bought a land rover (silly boy) but is much happier.

[S188]

Nicely put S188 :-k

soleless.... carictor.... thort.... sole less.... thechnicly.... pritty :doh: :clap: ;) :roll:

Thanks for pointing that out for me!  Yes, I'm suvearly dyslexic and have the spelling age of an 11 yearold.  Like eveyone else who doesn't understand, you'll probubly be wondering why I don't just use a spellchecker?  Simple, I don't know which word in the massive list is the right one, infact I'm often so far out the right word isn't even on the list.  Since you probubly still understood what I typed, maybe you could help me by proofreading it? I do actully try my best to iron out the glering mistakes that I can spot before posting, but there becomes a point when spending 15 minutes on a post isn't worth it.  Things are often spelt foneticly but, as you may notice, I can change how I think a word might be spelt at any time so it varies within a document.  Maybe I should just disapear and leave this sort of forum stuff to the more naturally gifted.  Maybe I should just give up instead of struggle through my Degree? Where should this stop?  Sereously though I think I'm much better at copeing with written/typed stuff when I use forums and stuff regularly, so MC helps.  Thanks for putting up with me, I'm used to people taking the [throw it].  If you met me in person you'd probubly find I'm a bit different to how I seem on a forum, I have a carictor of sort though - bad spelling is my online carictor!

I'm not a perticular fan of jap cars it must be said, maybe thats because so many have stupid names I can't read, there are plenty of euro brands with silly names too though, I hate them all!

[Silvery Thing]

I see someone is being annoyed by people calling the Prius silly names. do you own one?

My mate had one and it was awful. build quality was pathetic and it never ever did the mpg he was told it should.

i had to have a lift in it once and the worst thing was people pointing and laffing at us  =;

he sold it and bought a land rover (silly boy) but is much happier.

No I do not own one but know someone who does.... you clearly know nothing about the build quality as it is indeed very good and shoots down many other cars on this score, sorry but Toyota just would not put out a car that is less than acceptable. I had been in the car as both a passenger and driver and, although a little underpowered, the car drives nicely. As for people pointing and laughing.... sorry but I just do not believe you [-X I think you just wanted people to do this and that is what you saw.... something less than reality :-k

[datalas]

No I do not own one but know someone who does.... you clearly know nothing about the build quality as it is indeed very good and shoots down many other cars on this score, sorry but Toyota just would not put out a car that is less than acceptable. I had been in the car as both a passenger and driver and, although a little underpowered, the car drives nicely. As for people pointing and laughing.... sorry but I just do not believe you [-X I think you just wanted people to do this and that is what you saw.... something less than reality :-k

Well I'm sure Land Rover wouldn't put out a car which was simply "less than acceptable" but you said that it was all that they did, I guess it goes to show that different people are entitled to different opinions and are certainly likely to have them.  Heck, in my experience any conversation with two people in it will have at least four different opinions usually diametrically opposed too :)

Still, I'm not keen on the prius for several reasons, most of which are potentially shallow but hey ho ...

a) I am not convinced about the manufacture, reliability and recycling prospects of the batteries.  They are a complicated technology and use a variety of semi rare metals and hard to refine materials.  This will increase the cost of manufacture from a purely ecological point of view.

b) I'm not convinced by the idea of hybrid vehicles,  I know the idea of using the waste energy to charge the batteries back up, but I also happen to believe that you can drive a normal care more economically by accepting that fact too.

c) I'm not in the market for a £20,000 car,  and no matter how environmentally cool it might or might not be I can't afford one.  Even if it does a trillion miles to the egg cup, it'll still take me 10 years to use £20Ks worth of fuel, although with labour in charge, it might only be three weeks

d) I happen to think it's ugly

e) I've been confronted by a Prius driver and the holier than thou attitude wasn't all that appealing, but perhaps he was a rarity.

Still, my opinions and yours will undoubtedly vary, and I apologise and will go out and get a prius immediately...

As for S188,  I have no problem with your spelling or difficulties there in.  Too many people associate Dyslexia with stupidity and the two are simply not related.  However, I do hope that the spell checker in the new forums (or possibly in firefox if you're up for a browser change, contact me to know more) will prove helpful, especially as I know how frustrating it can be for people who are trying to be taken seriously to be laughed off because of the occasional typo.  If I do it, I expect you to throw something at my head until I stop.

[Krull]

you clearly know nothing about the build quality

whereas you are clearly an expert.

i bow to your greater knowledge oh great god of cars. glad you own something i don't.

[discomummy]

Hi,

S188,  just to let you know, himself is dyslexic and has just been appointed professor of mech.eng at a university - don't let it stop you KO!

& we think one of the girls is too

regards

ela

[Silvery Thing]

....Well I'm sure Land Rover wouldn't put out a car which was simply "less than acceptable" but you said that it was all that they did....

I am sorry but I do not recall saying that about Land Rovers :? Can you please show me where :-.