is the block of a 2.25 petrol the same as a diesel??

[tjsj]

As in the question really! My friend has a series 2 lightweight 2 1/4 petrol and he destroyed the head of the engine, he wants to convert it to a 2 1/4 diesel but was wondering whether it may be worth just changing the head providing the blocks are the same? I'm sure some of you guys will know!!
Cheers

[electricbluebadger]

Nope, diesels reinforced

cheers steve

[Bowie]

The blocks aren't the same!

People will correct me if I am wrong, for sure (it has been known  ), but the Diesel has a steel crank, different cam, and a couple of other differences, not to mention different pistons, compression ratio..... the list goes on :)

If you tried to run with the cast iron crank you have in a petrol then it will crack pretty quickly given the increase in compression ratio, and the fact that a diesel is effectively 'knocking' every time it fires.

That is not a definiative list of differences btw, just an off the top of my head reason why not to do it ;)

That is... if I understood your question correctly ;)

HTH,

Bowie.

[S188]

They are certainly very simular (the block that is), I'm not even sure if the block casting might actully be the same, though it could be machined slightly differently.  Diesels have been converted into petrols in the past by changing all but the bottem end.

As Bowie says though, vertully every component fitted into/onto the block, from bottem end, to head via cam are different. The bottem end of a diesel is much stronger with forged crank for example.  Petrolising a diesel would work fine with these HD components, it'd probubly never break (partly why the petrols are famous for lasting so well I think); turning a petrol into a diesel however would fail pritty quick if you didn't upgrade all these bits - It'd be easyer to get a decent diesel engine and just rebuild that, you probubly wouldn't need to do so much work to it.

I think the bottem ends of the later 2.3 diesels (5 bearing) shared more components with the petrols, as with the extra bearings, a cast crank became strong enough for the diesel so saving the expence of making forged ones.

[fordlltwm]

The Block itself is the same as is the sump, but the crank, cam, pistons, con rod are all different, sorry

[johnpirate]

I know of at least one member of the series 2 club who when their diesel engine died. They used a petrol block and built a diesel with it using second hand bits it ran for 10000 miles plus not bad for a weekend dodge to keep the vehicle on the road.

[James.Harwood]

Unless you do a lot of miles stick with petrol, they are so much more reliable.

[electricbluebadger]

Unless you do a lot of miles stick with petrol, they are so much more reliable.

Hmmm :)

My list of engine spares if I go on  a long trip in the diesel.....

1 x fanbelt
1x alternator if off roading
fuel pump
fuel solenoid
oil
Water

needed a fanbelt once in 3 years

Diesel... give it fuel and energise the solenoid and it runs and doesnt stop until you de-energise the solenoid.

My list of spares if I go on  a long trip in the petrol 2.5 series 1

1 x fanbelt
4 x plugs
1 x points
1 x condensor
1 x dizzy cap
5 x plug leads
1 x coil
1x rotor arm
fuel pump
WD40 lots of :)
1 x alternator (as above)
Oil
Water

Petrol...give it fuel and it will run...as long as your plugs dont 'go duff', leads dont track, dizzy cap doesnt track or carbon brush crumble, rotor arm foul (easy fix though), points dont burn out, condenser doesnt fail, coil doesnt give up etc etc :)

The only other real mechanical issues are common to both engines so no difference....

both engines use a starter of the same basic design so no difference in reliability there,
both use a lift pump of the same design so no difference there

In fact the only real difference is that a petrol has numerous short lived electrical components neded to make it run whereas a diesel has none bar a stop solenoid

Diesels may be slower and noisy but bar a major mechanical faux pas they are as reliable as it gets, far more reliable than any petrol I've ever owned and run on veg oil to boot :)

Cheers Steve

[Rich_P]

But will a diesel continue to run with one smashed piston and three good ones?  ;)

The items that you say there could easily be said about the injectors too!  After all, they don't last forever and neither does the injector pump.  Or what about an air leak in the fuel line?  A petrol will run, but a diesel won't under those conditions.

...and WD40?  Why why why?  I have not yet experienced a problem with my engine cutting out from water splash and I've gone pretty deep sometimes (bow wave above headlights).  :-.

I'm on the petrol side of things for reliability.  Particularly after when my head gasket blew and it continued to drive the final twenty or so miles with only two cylinders actually firing properly (gasket blew between 2 and 3).  :dance:  I'd like to see a diesel do that.  :P

[electricbluebadger]

But will a diesel continue to run with one smashed piston and three good ones?  ;)

The items that you say there could easily be said about the injectors too!  After all, they don't last forever and neither does the injector pump.  Or what about an air leak in the fuel line?  A petrol will run, but a diesel won't under those conditions.

...and WD40?  Why why why?  I have not yet experienced a problem with my engine cutting out from water splash and I've gone pretty deep sometimes (bow wave above headlights).  :-.

A smashed piston... thats a bit random its not an everyday reliability problem is it :) smash a piston on either and your in trouble with bore damage, crank journal probs etc etc

you are clutching at straws mentioning a fuel leak...yes a diesel may well run with an air leak..granted badly, as will a petrol drawing air in, in fact the petrol will then run way too lean and hot poss resulting in a piston melt... I could have also added a diesel wont burst into flames with a fuel line leak again we are talking day to day reliability so fuel issues again apply to both??? and as for injectors and pumps well what about the zenith issues.. Ive only listed issues pertinent to the particular engine fuel type I could go on all day pointing out 'common' issues to both types..that would be pointless as it cancels the comparisons out..

you may have never had issues with water on a petrol ignition but thousands have, just go to billing and see how many are dead and being WD40d all round the course (they are all petrol by the way :) )

I'm on the petrol side of things for reliability.  Particularly after when my head gasket blew and it continued to drive the final twenty or so miles with only two cylinders actually firing properly (gasket blew between 2 and 3).  :dance:  I'd like to see a diesel do that.  :P

I'll chalk that random comment down to your inexperience with diesels otherwise you would know that of course a diesel could run with a shot gasket (dependant on the severity)...again the issue affects both, the last diesel I saw doing that had blown the gasket and warped the head to such an extent the water tank blew due to overpressure. but the engine still ran and drove, take the head off most TDs and you will find several cracks between the chambers and the owners wont have even realised.......and the TD is poss one of the worst diesel lumps landrover ever used (it was after all only a stop gap engine)

reliability issues are generally an issue that can be attributed across a common range... neither diesel or petrol landies suffer smashed pistons regularly across the range so lets keep things realistic :)

I am sure given a few years with landys you will encounter many issues I certainly have and have only been playing in Landys for a mere 27years and have seen first hand all the issues I have listed...so am talking from first hand experience.. gotta admit prob done 1/4 million Landy related miles in everything from a series 1 (one of my current landies) to Wolves on a regular basis and Ive never smashed a piston :) , lets be realistic with reliability issues anybody could pull up any number of totally unlikely problems :)

Cheers Steve

[electricbluebadger]

To expand slightly with my own personal experience........... I have

On various petrol landies...

changed dozens of sets of points over the years when they've packed up
changed numerous condensors
changed hundreds of plugs
changed numerous coils
Had several king leads / ht leads internally break down
had 2 zenith issues (fitted webers rather than go to the hassle of putting them in the oven :) )


on various diesels

never had to change an injector pump
only ever had to change 1 set of injectors

both types have suffered fuel leaks
various head gaskets... not just for myself :) on both types
etc etc

so from first hand experience over 27 years diesels have required far less work.. not all points changes and such have been due to breakdowns as you change them regularly to avoid breakdowns in the first place.

Cheers Steve

[electricbluebadger]

OOps tell a lie, I have smashed a piston....

On a 3 litre modded petrol Capri (now showing my age) the valve collets broke and dropped the valve into the cylinder.. however not a landy, it was petrol and beleive me it didnt run as the valve/head locked the engine solid after punching a hole in the piston...

but in no way is that a 'reliability' issue, its a freak accident... made a nice polished centre piece on a wooden plinth but not seen it around the house for a few years so the good lady probably tidied it into 'file 13' :)

Cheers Steve

[electricbluebadger]

LMAO.. had to do this :)

If you want reliability, economy and decent performance for today's world then it has to be either the 200 or 300 TDi engines.  That's my take on it. 

[Edited] Rich make your mind up this was only a few weeks ago :) .. maybe you have a diesel loving alter ego :) , but I quite agree my 200tdi is getting on for 200k still on its original pump and not caused me a moments problem with reliability and needed no repairs to date (oops wrong thing to say :) )... superb engine. oil n filters once a year and thats it to date.

http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/topic,54540.msg489933.html#msg489933

Cheers Steve

[Rich_P]

But that quote was in reference to meet what the person wanted, reliability AND economy AND decent performance for today.  The last one isn't something that the older diesels quite have the reputation for, and isn't that what we were 'discussing' about?  :P

Yes I am grasping at straws.  :oops:  I'm really only a "fan" of the petrol engine because it's all I have. 

The fuel costs from a petrol aren't too nice either.  Something I just try to ignore.  :(

[electricbluebadger]

But that quote was in reference to meet what the person wanted, reliability AND economy AND decent performance for today.  The last one isn't something that the older diesels quite have the reputation for, and isn't that what we were 'discussing' about?  :P

Yes I am grasping at straws.  :oops:  I'm really only a "fan" of the petrol engine because it's all I have. 

The fuel costs from a petrol aren't too nice either.  Something I just try to ignore.  :(

LMAO, i know :) , the petrol is a reliable little lump and as long as you carry a few extra bits it can still put a lot of modern stuff to shame, a friends rover didnt run properly for 12 months back and from the dealer, traced in the end to a loose electric mirror wire screwing the ECU

I have both diesel in the 90 and petrol in the series 1 and would trust em over something modern and ridiculously complex any day of the week :)

if its a long trip and i have a week to get there its the series 1 ..... top down every time winter or summer
if its a long trip and i only have 6 days to get there its gotta be the 90 (plus veg oil saves a fortune :) )

Cheers Steve

[johnpirate]

I,ve got a 200 Tdi Disco which after I sorted out the previous owner issues has been great engine wise .Wheel bearings not so good.But I did work it hard .Just got a 300 Tdi Disco .And I,m going through the same problems .I,ve got a 1959 Series 2 That in eight years let me down twice .Once when the gearbox let go.But in its defence I had just dragged a double decker bus across a muddy field .And once when I had an electrical fault.The spark couldnt find the petrol.Every othertime it dragged its sorry backside home limping all the way but it got me there.Allthough when the gearbox let go I got home in fourth gear as It was the layshaft.I prefer series petrols .They are bomb proof.I had a 2 1/14 diesel Station Wagon 12 seater it was that underpowered and useless.I needed the overdrive to give it a chance on hills it saw them and died.I was always stirring the stick.And the amount of times I rang my mates up for a tow was embarrasing.

[Range Rover Blues]

Sp you could build a very tough petrolengine if you had a spare diesel block then?

I read opnce about a guy who built a bombproof Austin Healey 100/4 using the diesel engine from an Austin Taxi, that had a similar block, but stronger and a stronger crank too.