Help!!!! no revs

[BK]

 I thought id have go at upping the fuel on doris,s (90 200tdi) injector pump just to get a bit more poke, so I followed the instruction from this site www.bobtail.org(follow link)did it all as i should and now she wont run properly,ticks over like bag of hammers and wont rev at all,just ticks over..changed lift pump recent,fuel filter is new,no leaks anywhere but she wont run properly,no response at all from throttle.............just weird......what have I done? :doh: :-k

[Wolfie]

I take it you mean http://bobtail.org.uk/ninety/orange/ninety_19.htm the link you gave goes to a french old english sheepdog site  :lol:

I don't know what to suggest to solve your problem other than to reset the pump to the original settings. Steve did mention on MC recently that the adjustments he made were what suited his engine and may not be correct for every engine.

[BK]

Sorry mate posted wrong link............tried putting it back to normal.....no cigar..........im flummocksed.........it was running ok this mornin,albeit i bit flat,so i thought i would try upping the fuel a bit,but now it wont run at all hardley,no revs its as if the throttle is not there,could the pump timing have slipped? :doh:

[L90OOK]

Sounds like the fuel filter is blocked...or the lift pump knackered.

Take fuel filter off & see if it is full...if not lift pump needs replacing

[BK]

New fuel filter and brand new lift pump last week,checked fuel supply(ok)and primed lift pump(ok)im sure its summat thats to do with injector pump or pump timing...........id better get it sorted soon b4 i throw a gallon of petrol and a match on it cos its doin my head in now :-k :-k

[L90OOK]

Can you get some pics with the cover off diaphragm in & out?

How high is the diaphragm with the cover off?

Have you damaged the diaphragm or pipe from turbo?

[BK]

cant get no pics camera fubar(like 90) diaphram isnt damaged or pipe from turbo it sits approx 5mm proud from top of housing and pushes down quite easy and also rotates,is this right?just been onto a site to find out how much 4 a s/hand pump cos im sure that its the pump,it cant be owt else cos ive not touched owt else

[L90OOK]

with the diaphragm out does the little pin move?

turn the star wheel clockwise (down) 1 complete turn & try again.

Did you touch the fuelling screw on the back of the pump?

[BK]

cant get the diapharm out I didnt think it came out,theres a 10mm nut on top,when you turn that the whole lot turns and it wont just pull out,if t comes out,how?

[L90OOK]

You don't need to touch that nut!  Is the nut now loose?

I take it you marked the starting position of diaphragm?

Pull the diaphragm up gently & rotate as you are doing it...it should come out.

In there is the star wheel & little pin...make sure pin moves.

Under the diaphragm is a plastic collar...remove & put away!!

Make sure the nut on diaphragm is tight
Replace the diaphragm as removed by rotating till drops in.  If the nut was loose...You will see witness marks on the eccentric pin where the small pin has rubbed against it.try & line up again...you will have to mark this as your original position now.

Try again!

[Guardian.]

see your flogging it now, surely its worth sticking a pump on it they are not that dear, you can get a whole transplant lot for 300 quid.

[BK]

Nah cant be bothered,been gonna sell it 4 a while now

[BK]

Well,turns out injector pump is fubar,so I am either gonna get it fixed and sell it or sell it as it is,its already on 4 sale section but the price advertised is with a nackered pump so if i fix it obviously the price will go up to cover my costs,no takers so far but its a shame really cos its a nice landy :)

[extreme90]

the injector pump isnt nackerd
its the pin that runs on the eccentric cam on the diaphram siezed
trust me on that  ;)
does it struggle to pull off ?
then when on the move the turbo wont even come in ?
yer its the little arm
lift the diapram up gentally so not to rip it
then spray some wd40 down the hole
leave for 24hours
then rotate the diaphram whilst pulling upwards
you will feel it go tight, then go slack again
thats you trying to force the pin inwards
its a pita
but easily cured
worst one i seen, i had to remove the throttle assay to gain access to the grub screw so that i could get inside the pump shwere the arm moved
took half hour tops to sort out
dan

[electricbluebadger]

I thought id have go at upping the fuel on doris,s (90 200tdi) injector pump just to get a bit more poke, so I followed the instruction from this site www.bobtail.org

I Did it all as I should

Really??? .... read on ;)


BK, Im surprised that you say you followed the instructions on my site and then go on to say that you didnt think the diaphragm came out

This is just one of the pictures showing you remove the diaphragm to access the starwheel, the diaphragm can be tight but does come out

On removal you will see it is all part of a plunger, the end of the plunger is off set from centre, the idea is to rotate this when replacing the diaphragm so the maximum offset is pointing towards the front of the car, this involved a 90 degree clockwise turn in my case and apparently in most other cases....

Remove the spring that sits below the diaphragm and place safe....

You will see a starwheel in the bottom of the housing this needs to be adjusted so that when the diaphragm is replaced it is 'up' by a couple of mm, I gave mine five clicks clockwise although I have about 4mm lift of the diaphragm before replacing the cover....
The bits are all put back together and the cover screwed back in place...
Just need to get a new smoke screw dust cap as it gets trashed when you remove it (mine did at least)

Screw the rod in, there should be enough free space inside the sleeve, until it reaches the locknut, 5mm should give the required boost increase...you can go more but you'll be pushing things

Obviously there is more info and pics on the site but dont want to overload the bandwidth on this thread

Most of the page revolves around the diaphragm being out so as I said which if any of the instructions did you follow???

However this aside I quite agree with Dan it sounds as though the pin is seized in your pump, remove the diaphragm (it does come out .. honest :) ) and get some WD40 in there and cross your fingers

Must be a bloke thing to not bother with instructions and when it goes wrong tell people you followed em... I do it all the time with self assembly furniture :)....

of course I followed the instructions dear... I have no idea why there are so many extra bits left over

:)

Men ... Instructions .. we dont need no stinkin instructions.... :)

Cheers Steve

[BK]

No,the diafram does not come out,its seized,I followed your instructions to the letter except for pulling the diafram out (cos it wouldnt come out)but never mind,my fault its costing me an injector pump rebuild and then a sale for the old girl(90)

[extreme90]

No,the diafram does not come out,its seized,I followed your instructions to the letter except for pulling the diafram out (cos it wouldnt come out)but never mind,my fault its costing me an injector pump rebuild and then a sale for the old girl(90)

am sorry
but you dont need to rebuild the injector pump just cos o a siezed throttle arm
like i said
half a hour work for one that is siezed solid !!
who ever has said you need a pump rebuild it well and truely having your pants down !!

[BK]

no they are not having"my pants down" thanks all the same,if you have nothing constructive to say well then dont bother saying it....cheers,oh and by the way its not just a seized throttle arm,but thanks 4 your input

[extreme90]

 :-k
some one get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning ??
sorry
just as it seems you dont no what your doing in the 1st place  :roll:
if you choose not to listen to people who have been there and done that before then fair doo's to you
fit a new pump
or have it re-conned
for no need
i dont care, isnt my money

[BK]

mmm ok then and no i didnt get out of bed the wrong side...........but cheers anyway [-X

[extreme90]

so, enlighten me as to whats adrift with the pump ?
ask them for the old diaphram and eccentric back when its been refurbed
expect to see a deep gouge in the cam of it where the pins siezed
am sure if got one lying around here some where to show you what i mean
ive got a pump aswel to strip and show you the problem if you want
the arm will stop the turbo coming onto boost as the diaphram cant move downwards because of the siezed arm
no boost bleed off from the turbo, gives no fuel, gives no go
i take it that it takes a eternity to rev up in neutral ?

[BK]

it doesnt rev at all,just ticks over very badly,just had a price 4 it doin £140.00 that includes a guy comin 2 my house takin pump off,takin it away,reconning it and building back up and coming back to my house and putting it back on again,so i dont think thats bad at all

[extreme90]

is he going to use the locking tool so you dont need to remove the timing belt ?
or are you getting a new belt fitted to it ?
ask him for the old eccentric though
its only the pin siezed
mite actually have snapped if it doesnt rev at all  :-.

[electricbluebadger]

Gotta admit seen a few seized but never one snapped, almost certainly initially seized so maybe some damage was caused turning it using the diaphragm nut whilst still in situ as BK said he did. Be interested to know the outcome and what the cause was, despite BK insisting

I followed your instructions to the letter

I still cant find the bit where it tells you I used the nut to turn the diaphragm ;) but maybe something was gouged or broken turning the diaphragm against a potentially seized pin

however if that is what caused the damage then it may be worth putting a warning on the site in case anybody else decides to try their own thing instead of removal as clearly shown.

You cant do it without diaphragm removal because you have absolutely no way of knowing where the cam offset is to start off with.. normally 12 O'clockish but you can't be sure a previous owner hasnt already messed with things. Turning it without removal therefore is a bit hit n miss the more people carry out this mod IMHO.

As a side note we've done Snake110's new Disco at the weekend which flatly refused to rev above 3000 rpm (before any modding I might add) and picked up really badly, turned out the pump was internally seized which we put down to the very cautious driver who owned it before, it had never been over 2500 rpm so guess it had hardly ever come on boost and needed the extra fuel delivery.....

Goes like the proverbial now :) , even added a touch more boost to mine to keep up ;) , Note to self.. get a boost guage SOON!!!

Shes now been running 10 months boosted and 8 months on veg (legally :) ) and the only running repairs are two front prop UJs and one of those was on its last legs before the mod, a fan belt and a clutch slave.... despite regular hammerings off road and occasional 'spirited' on road progress ;) who says Defenders are Unreliable :)

Also have been looking at the pump on the VW TD Golf lump Im about to drop into Caz's Vitara... looks identical so looks as though that will be next on the modding list, although that will definately be getting an accurate temp, boost and EG temp analyser as they can run close to the mark at the best of times....



Cheers Steve

[BK]

Look,I think that you think I am blaming you,I am not.As I have said,its my fault and I will have to sort it out with my money.i did not touch the diafram nut,i turned the whole thing,but it would not come out as it obviously was seized,so i put it all back together again and it wouldnt run properly,its ok all you lot sitting at your pc,s telling me what YOU think cos you think you are all landy wizards,but really you are not you are just home-made mechanics,until you look at something you dont really know whats wrong.

[biggerlandy]

hi bk i undersand your anger i am a trained mechanic been working on landys etc for years in defence of extreme 90 he is saying to you on correct route of your problem i had same prob on mine a while go it more than likly the pin in bottom of chamber under plunger to get it out you have to remove throttle linkage mark it next to it allen key ccrew remove it lots fiddle and wd moving plunger up and it will then come out if you have allready had throttle linkage of and not put back prop that will allso give you no revs

[BK]

Thanks v much for your help bigger landy,I am gonna let a diesel injection guy (someone who is a friend of a friend) look at it soon and get it sorted for me,its nice for somebody to have something constructive to say..cheers.I knew injection pumps were complicated but I didnt know they were that bad!,next time ill leave well alone,mind you next time itll be a petrol motor without a green oval cos ive had my fill of em!

[electricbluebadger]

its ok all you lot sitting at your pc,s telling me what YOU think cos you think you are all landy wizards,but really you are not you are just home-made mechanics,until you look at something you dont really know whats wrong.

Home made mechanics!!! , actually I spent ten years working in a back street garage in the Midlands, admittedly the first 6 years was purely Sat n Sundays and full time in holidays (aged 10 - 16) then full time after A levels, Rebuilt my first A series as a project at 12 , V8'd a transit for the garage owner to use for recovery at 14 and owned and worked on Landys countless times over the last 20 Years (in May)...so home made mechanic not a chance (time served in the trade as well!)
How dare you level a comment like that across the board at a group who have far far more experience than you, irrespective if some have learnt through necessity at home or some through trade experience, As a trained Landy mechanic has now added the advice you've received is on the correct lines, as youve been told its not uncommon.
With comments like that I have to say Im glad your next vehicle won't be a green oval, might I suggest a pushbike, hopefully mechanically that will be within your reach and you will not need to level sarcasm at people who have suggested answers based on your description of your problem.

In future feel free to pass comment on posters if and when you actually know the background of the people you are referring to.

End of the day Landys are probably the biggest simplest meccano kits you could ever come across, even my 10 year old happily helps out on many jobs, bigger and more fun than lego, however he does have the sense to listen to advice when given by those with experience.

Cheers Steve

[BK]

OOOHH ok then,maybe you might be better to keep your comments to yourself if you dont like the response,I did tell you that I WASNT blaming you or anybody else,it would be nice to have constructive comments,not a slanging match on this forum,after all I was originally only asking if anybody had any ideas on the nature of my problem,not for somebody to slag me off and tell me I dont know what im doing! which isnt fair as you dont know me and i dont know you,theres absolutely no need for all this,I started off having a chat with L9l00k not you

[electricbluebadger]

OOOHH ok then,maybe you might be better to keep your comments to yourself if you dont like the response,I did tell you that I WASNT blaming you or anybody else,it would be nice to have constructive comments,not a slanging match on this forum,after all I was originally only asking if anybody had any ideas on the nature of my problem,not for somebody to slag me off and tell me I dont know what im doing! which isnt fair as you dont know me and i dont know you,theres absolutely no need for all this,I started off having a chat with L9l00k not you

Hello earth Calling BK...

YOU think cos you think you are all landy wizards,but really you are not you are just home-made mechanics,

your the one who posted this not anyone else

the only other comment was extreme 90 who said you were being fleeced at £140, thats not slating you thats his experienced opinion knowing how easy it normally is to solve a sticking pin.

as for the diaphragm being seized... Its Not... you even stated yourself you turned it using the nut (why I have no idea), it moves ergo its not seized. The eccentric and pin if seized will make it very awkward if not impossible to remove..... you were told this but insist on adding that its not, you were then told this again by Bigger Landy who is a time served Landy Mechanic...

[Edited] ever heard the phrase 'You can lead a horse to water'

Im sure if you'd have posted can anyone come round and help someone local probably would have, I certainly have run out to peoples houses or had them turn up at mine several times

But comments such as yours above will result in little or no help, if you obviously aren't interested in the posters opinions who all agree (incl one trained Landy Mechanic cos we are only home made) then feel free, pay your £140, hurry up and sell it and we will go back to helping the myriad of people who come on here genuinely prepared to listen to the voices of experience...

Feel free to turn off the lights on your way out :)

and for the record nobody has said you were blaming me, it was simply pointed out that if you hadnt removed the diaphragm you clearly hadnt followed the steps I had carried out on my 90....


Cheers Steve