A few questions, advice needed please

[stuntman]

Hello one and all, I post mainly in the Disco forum, but my disco is very quickly falling to bits.

I have a few questions if I may.

I have a full disco 200 tdi manual to take apart for spares 10 splines diffs etc.

I like the idea of running a series 3 but I really like my 200tdi engine as it's in very good nick.

I have the idea of a 109 station wagon, but can I use my engine and gearbox in the series, and would I need to swap my axels over?

A few other questions aswell, can I use any of my suspension parts on the 109 from the disco? I have a +2 lift that is brand spanking new, extended hoses (+5) etc.

Also what are they like to live with everyday, ie are the heaters any good and can they insulated etc.

As you can tell the series models are new to me.

Regards

Andi K

[Guardian.]

are the series not all onleaf springs, they are a nightmare motor just like the defenders but a bit worse, but anything is possible, tdi would go in ok, plus you could fit your tdi axles / suspension with a bit of mucking about and welding relevant mountings etc on, but to be honest, youd be better off getting a defender 110, cheaper and less time consuming than converting a 109.

[Pete]

 I have owned a series two with the turbo engine, five speed box, permanent four wheel drive and coils, but it was converted some years ago.  I believe some of the regs have changed since then.
 Mine was an 88, built on a brand new chassis. Hardest job is welding the new suspension parts to the series chassis, had to have the prop shafts shortened as well.  In the case of a 109 I would imagine that you would need longer shafts made up.
 They do go well, being over a ton lighter than the doner Disco, economy is good too. I do know of other conversions, but they have just changed the engine, and kept the transmision as standard. I'm told that an early series two box is the best to use, being stronger than the series three.
 Keep us posted if you decide to go ahead.
 Pete

[Rich_P]

The 2A is stronger than the early Series 3 gearbox, but the late Series 3 gearbox is stronger than the late 2A gearbox.  Either way, you would have to be somewhat restrained on the throttle unless you want to replace the gearbox not too long afterwards, or you could detune the TDi to be of more 6-pot performance.

Your first problem would be getting a 109 SW in the first place.  They are not common place, and for specific reasons.  For instance, how would you fancy a turning circle that's about twice of your Disco?

A Series is, as mentioned earlier in the topic, on leaf springs.  Any Series motors on coil springs are not original and have been tampered with considerably, so much so in some instances they have been turned into a wannabe 90 as described in the post above.  :roll:  If they are also sat on coils and the conversion has been done in recent times, then depending on what else has been done on the vehicle they could be required to go through an SVA test.

If you were to use your engine, gearbox and axles and change to coils, then you're going to lose the vehicle identity and have to go through an SVA with it.  If you just change the running gear and fabricate the axles to take leaf springs then you may be able to retain the identity (something that would need to be checked on, since it works on a points scheme).

They also will have corrosion taking place quite badly in places, unless it's either a complete minter (practically none existent) or has been rebuilt.

Think Defender, and then think of what one would be like if it was built in the 1930s.  That will give you a far better idea of what a Series is like.  If you're used to the comforts of a Discovery then you'll be in for a massive shock when you start to use a Series as a regular vehicle.  Furthermore in my own opinion, to use a 109 within a city/town as a regular commuting vehicle is plain madness considering their turning circle and general performance in acceleration. :shock:

[dave_2A_2.25Turbo]

You'd probably be better getting an early 110.  You'd be able to use engine and suspension with far less bother.  I fancy a 109 Station Wagon myself, but finding the right one at the right price is difficult.  But then I'm used to a Series.  If I TDi my 88 I'd like to use the TDi gearbox (mainly for the diff-lock), but I wouldn't want to lose either the leaf springs or the Series front. (Otherwise, it just ain't a Series!)

[Rich_P]

If I TDi my 88 I'd like to use the TDi gearbox (mainly for the diff-lock)

What's so important enough about difflock for you to a LT230 transferbox just for that?  :-.

[S188]

If you want coils, start with coils, IE a 110.  That way you avoid all this radically modified vehicle stuff that's already been done to death on other topics, and you probably end up with better results anyway.

Centre Diflock?  This one amuses me slightly as a series in 4WD (both propshafts locked together by a dog clutch) produces exactly the same result as a centre diff in difflock - there is no difference!  Where the difflock comes in is when its unlocked, it lets drive go to both axles rather than just the rear like the series box.  This is an advantage of the later setup but you really need CV joints on the front axle to run permanent 4wd properly (can be done with UJ's but won't feal very nice and things will ware).  For permanent 4wd on a series you'd need the narrow front axle of an 80" series 1, an expensive/rare axle off a 109 V8 (which were permanent 4wd anyway), a converted coil sprung axle, or I think someone, possibly in Holland has made some front halfshafts for series vehicles that have CV's, again not cheep and bad for parts supply.

Ashcroft are doing the kits again for fitting LT77's to series transferboxes.  That gives you 5 speeds and RWD, a salsbury rear axle should take that, and the series transferbox is quite a reliable thing, its the main box that usually breaks.  I've herd though that the disco lt77 has a much longer bellhouseing and remote shifter, compaired to the short nosed defender version with direct shifter.  Its the defender version that works best.  The disco 200tdi is the engine you want do fit in a series though, so that's worth keeping.

Contrary to whats been said above, I don't think 109 SW's are hens teeth, as with anything you might be waiting a couple of months for the right one and it will need some TLC (the youngest series is now 23 so they all need looking after) but you will find one.  If your looking for a genuine county station wagon you might be in for a harder challenge, but they do exist.  Even series 1 107's come up for sail occasionally, they really are rare.

[ian_s]

you would have to be somewhat restrained on the throttle unless you want to replace the gearbox not too long afterwards

people keep saying this and it just isnt true.
i've been running a defender 200tdi engine on a standard series gearbox for well over a year now, covered about 8thousand miles so far, and its still working great! and i dont drive gently. Yes, you have to be gently on the throttle, but thats because if you let the turbo start to work in first or second gear, it just wheel spins.
lots of people have put the 3.5 v8 into series vehicles, and no one says that they eat gearboxes, which is odd as they are quite a lot more powerful all through the rev range.

[Rich_P]

you would have to be somewhat restrained on the throttle unless you want to replace the gearbox not too long afterwards

people keep saying this and it just isnt true.

Please explain this then to a person I know who just blew his gearbox while out laning a couple of weeks back.  I'm also aware of a few cases now where a gearbox has gone bang with a TDi in front, some after having done a fair bit of mileage after a year or so but the failure still took place.

i've been running a defender 200tdi engine on a standard series gearbox for well over a year now, covered about 8thousand miles so far, and its still working great! and i dont drive gently. Yes, you have to be gently on the throttle, but thats because if you let the turbo start to work in first or second gear, it just wheel spins.

Clearly you're fortunate to have a very good gearbox to start with.  Not many people do have a gearbox in such top tip condition.

lots of people have put the 3.5 v8 into series vehicles, and no one says that they eat gearboxes, which is odd as they are quite a lot more powerful all through the rev range.

It's the torque that gets to them, power only comes way up in the rev range.  There's also another question, what 3.5?  The One Ten 3.5 produces similar output to the TDi engine, but peak torque is a lot further up in the rev range than the TDi's peak torque.

I believe a TDi would pick up any small fault with a Series gearbox and then the gearbox will suffer.  In other words, I think that the gearbox has to be in absolute mint condition for it to have a chance of surviving long if you're not light footed.

[ian_s]

gearboxes break, no matter what engine you run them with. lots of people have had it happen with standard engines, does that mean those are overpowered?

[Rich_P]

No, and you know what I'm talking about.  Gearboxes will break from wear and tear anyway.  But the logic you're applying with that argument is as follows:

If the gearbox can handle a standard 2.25, then surely it must be able to handle a limitless amount of power without failure.


Now as you can see, that's a load of rubbish.  ;)

I've come across more Series motors that have had gearbox failures in a relatively short amount of time than ones that have not.  I've given my thoughts on the matter and as such having nothing more to add now.

[Les Henson]

BHP of a series engine is 62 and a 200TDi is 111 - that's why the gearboxes go (eventually). Of course - careful use of the throttle and condition of the gearbox are a big factor.


Les.

[Fluffle-Valve]

It's the same as with any motor vehicle from any walk of life. Treat it with respect and it's going to last you a lot longer than it would if you didn't.