sick 200tdi

[extreme90]

my 90 has devaloped a cold recently  :'(
low end power is fine, but top end, half throttle and above the engine dies off, hesitates, miss fires, u name it, it does it
its not as bad for cold but when the stat opens its horrific
when it comes upto 1 bar it starts playing up, it will occasionally reach max pressure at 1.5bar, but thats with it coughing as spluttering
if i rev it out in neutral and hold it there ( wel if its gonna go bang it mite aswel do it in a good way  :dance:) it'll missfire and backfire ( rather awesome considering its a derv  :lol:)
so the only things ive got to go off are :-0
- horrific missfire on initial start up
- lack of top end, hesitation ect ect
- worse soon as reaches op temp

so far ive done the following then gave up on it tonight
- new lift pump
- new air/fuel filters
- blown fuel lines, both pick up and return back
- checked diaphram for splits
- check pressure side of air system
- intake side of system
- ran of aux tank
- ran with out fuel stop fitted
- carbon monoxide tested coolant..ok
- checked for excess breathing...its like new
and something else thats slipped my mind for time being  :lol:

seems to me asif its fuel starvation
cant be the wastegate cutting in, its never done it in the past year  :roll: of running 1.5bar
isnt head gasket

its got me puzzled
and one else think of something ?
cheers
dan

[pondy653]

Dan,
Long shot I know but mine did similarish a while a go.  Is the Spade terminal good and tight on the Shut off Solonoid, under hi rev condition the terminal if loose fit (as mine was) gives intermitant contact simulating miss fire (as tempreture increases so does resistance) so as I say a long shot.

Good luck

Tony

[extreme90]

ran it without the fuel stop fitted as when in the state of tune as mine, they have a tendency to kill themselves
as mike foud out  :dance: :dance: :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

ran it without the fuel stop fitted as when in the state of tune as mine, they have a tendency to kill themselves
as mike foud out  :dance: :dance: :lol:

coulda told u it woulda been the stop solenoid,
turn the pump down before it <edit> it totally,
as i found out on the way to work one morning

also clean the return out on the pump as it has a small filter in it

[extreme90]

ran it without the fuel stop fitted as when in the state of tune as mine, they have a tendency to kill themselves
as mike foud out  :dance: :dance: :lol:

coulda told u it woulda been the stop solenoid,
turn the pump down before it <edit> it totally,
as i found out on the way to work one morning

also clean the return out on the pump as it has a small filter in it

the stop solenoid was fine mike
cleaned the filter also
ran of a seperate fuel supply aswel
gonna double check the air system tonight to make sure there isnt a hose blowing itself inside out under  high boost pressure
really miffing me this is  :-k

[Range Rover Blues]

1.5 bar :shock:  that's quite a bit isn't it :-k

[Tommo]

also clean the return out on the pump as it has a small filter in it

where??????? that could be whats doing mine in!!!


and whats the standard boost pressure on the 200? mine gets to just under a bar,

[TDi90]

yeh but dan drives his like a nutter  :roll: ;) :lol:
im very good with mine, normal fual pump not tweaked and dont drive over 60mph  :dance: :clap: [-o<

[Tinks]

1.5 bar :shock:  that's quite a bit isn't it :-k

Not wishing to confuse things, more as a matter of interest but due to the ambient pressure of the atmosphere (1 Bar)  if your turbo gauge reads that it is boosting to 1.5 bar that means that there is actually 2.5 bar of pressure running thru it, thats why there is a minus 1 on the gauge. So yeah there is a fair amount of pressure running thru the turbo.  Having said that mine boosts to 1.5 and is fine.

I know someone that had a similarish probelm with his 90 turned out it was the wiring on the bottom of the injection pump so thats worth a check. :?

[Disco-Ron]

1.5 bar :shock:  that's quite a bit isn't it :-k

Not wishing to confuse things, more as a matter of interest but due to the ambient pressure of the atmosphere (1 Bar)  if your turbo gauge reads that it is boosting to 1.5 bar that means that there is actually 2.5 bar of pressure running thru it, thats why there is a minus 1 on the gauge. So yeah there is a fair amount of pressure running thru the turbo.  Having said that mine boosts to 1.5 and is fine.

I know someone that had a similarish probelm with his 90 turned out it was the wiring on the bottom of the injection pump so thats worth a check. :?

So does that mean that all non turbo engines in your theory are running at 1 bar boost then..LOL!!!

I think you've got confused somewhere.....

Could be worth checking where the fuel lines leave the tank, the metal pipes can become perforated and let air in...!!!!

[Tinks]

No I really am not confused.

You obviously can not have any boost pressure if there is not turbo, but that does not change the fact that atmospheric pressure is still 1 bar.

So hyperthetically if i'm wrong then why does a turbo boost pressure gauge have minus 1 on it??

[extreme90]

all sorted now  [-o< [-o<
thank the lord !!
mines running 1.5bar at no 1 cylinder, not at the turbo which gives false readings

[extreme90]

No I really am not confused.

You obviously can not have any boost pressure if there is not turbo, but that does not change the fact that atmospheric pressure is still 1 bar.

So hyperthetically if i'm wrong then why does a turbo boost pressure gauge have minus 1 on it??

they have a minus on for petrols
as at idle, petrol engines r on vacume, not boost  ;)

[Tinks]

And some modern diesel cars read 1bar of boost pressure when they are iddling because.........?

[Tommo]

And some modern diesel cars read 1bar of boost pressure when they are iddling because.........?

what cars this???????????????????????

wants taking to the dealer.

an atmospheric gauge will read 1 bar when no pressure is on it but a pressure gauge (ie boost gauge) will use 1 bar as a zero

my tyres may have 2 bar in them but its not 3 bar is it?

yes atmospheric presurre is 1 bar but you dont add that on with anything else, just like 0 degrees is not as cold as it will go but when the thermomiter reads 1 degrees we dont say its 274 degrees do we???

too many beers to be talking about this stuff. 

its all relative you see. if atmospheric pressure was 50 bar then to get one bar of boost your turbo would have to boost to 51 bar how you describe it, but it isnt is it.

[extreme90]

And some modern diesel cars read 1bar of boost pressure when they are iddling because.........?

modern diesels turbo's are that small, there boostin from just above tick over and away
listen to a ford fiesta derv pull off for example
but no dervs are on boost at idle

a turbo is constantly spinning due to it running off exhaust gasses
what you say about air pressure around us is true
but i highly doubt my engine is running at 2.5bar pressure, as, the bonnet would have a nice cylinder head shape in it by now ( would look funky though  :lol:)
i would think that the vacume of the idling engine would bring the pressure down to zero on the guage
either that, or, the guages are calibrated to ambient air temp/pressure
but the vacume side of boost guages are for pertol engine which are on vacume at idle ( if a tubby powerd engine ) then come up onto boost as the revs increase
if they wernt on vacume, then how the hell do n/a carb engines run  :roll: :roll:
dan

[Tommo]

To be honest there isnt much vacuum on idle, you see it most when you let off after hammering it (ie gear changes)

anyway NO ONES TOLD ME WHERE THE FILTER ON THE RETURN PIPE IS YET?????????

[extreme90]

To be honest there isnt much vacuum on idle, you see it most when you let off after hammering it (ie gear changes)

anyway NO ONES TOLD ME WHERE THE FILTER ON THE RETURN PIPE IS YET?????????

inside the banjo bolt that goes through the return union on the pump

[Tommo]

thank you sir.

[Tinks]

Question tommo do you actually now what you are talking about or are you just guessing?

The gauges are calliberated to zero to account for the ambient pressure.

Besides I dont actually care whether or not any of you choose to agree or believe me, after all I am only a girl so what would I know about cars! :lol: :lol:

[Range Rover Blues]

Unless they are faulty pressure guages will always read zero when there's no pressure in them, because they measure it relative to ambient, which strangley enough is what the waste gate actuator is callibrated relative too aswell.


If i've read this correctly, someone's getting 1.5 bar at the plenum, rather than 1 bar at the turbo outlet.  That's confusing.



Finally, petrol cars all have partial vacuum at idle, when cruising and mostly at overrunn, where the throttle body is closed and the engine is being driven by  the car's momentum, even ones with a Turbo on them.  If the turbo was on boost when cruising at a steady speed you wouldn't have a fuel tank big enough to go anywhere, even the TDi should drop to about ¹/₃ bar at a steady 70.

[Tommo]

Question tommo do you actually now what you are talking about or are you just guessing?

The gauges are calliberated to zero to account for the ambient pressure.

Besides I dont actually care whether or not any of you choose to agree or believe me, after all I am only a girl so what would I know about cars! :lol: :lol:

I work for cummins turbo technologies!!!  :dance:

(not like it means much though as i could be the floor sweeper!)

but ive messed with turbo petrols quite a bit (mainly drag racing but nowt serious), also hybrid turbo's and the like.

built two turbo's for a volvo race boat.

I had had a drink last night and think my wording was a little off, but the thing to take away is that atmospheric pressure (usually quoted is the mean sea level pressure) is used as the zero on boost gauges (and most pressure gauges) this is because it is pressure neutral at this point (ie no pressure difference between atm and your engine.)

[extreme90]

why is me getting 1.5bar at the intake manifold confusing  :-.

[Range Rover Blues]

Because i thought 1.5 bar was 'a bit high' for a TDi, plus I'd expect the pressure reading at the plenum to be lower than the turbo outlet, so yoou must be getting at least 1.5 bar there, that's quite high isn't it?

[Xtremeteam]

im pullin 22psi or 1.5 bar at the waste gate on mine  :dance:

[Tommo]

you got an EGT guage?

[extreme90]

yer, but whats the pressure loss in our huge intercoolers mike ?
at least ive got a true intake pressure reading, not the pressure reading from down at the turbo

RRB with the amount of fuel im pumping in, i need alot of air to cut the black smoke down  :lol:
yer 1.5b high....but i aint arsed about blowing engine's up or popping head gaskets
dan

[Range Rover Blues]

yer 1.5b high....but i aint arsed about blowing engine's up or popping head gaskets
dan

That explains it :)

[Xtremeteam]

you got an EGT guage?

oh yeh

had one since i melted last turbo 

[Tommo]

your sound then i suppose. just keep an eye on that and if it gets a bit high then take it easy.