Muddy Scouters

[defuzz]

I noticed a few scouty signatures in the forums so thought I'd start a "Shout Out" (see how hip I am!!) thread.

Me, I'm a former cub and scout, both parents were scout leaders and county training team and dad was DC for a while, came back into the fold in september and am now half way to my wood beads (by May I should have done all my training, only 4 months from "getting Started" modules to finish!!)

I'm an assistant scout leader with a group in Falmouth District, Cornwall


The disco is already coming in useful, the two leaders who previously had tow bars have bought new cars and seem reluctant to fit tow bars!!!

[ben_haynes]

I am a Scouter along with Panda

Explorer Scout Leaders, Glendon District, Kettering, Northants.

i have just completed my Wood beads, should recieve them soon, took me 2 years and 3 groups to complete though :oops:, and only had a Training adviser in the last year :shock:

i was a scout but never a cub

all my landys have come in handy but then so did my polo :lol:

[Wireless]

I've a few roles in Scouting, but only took my Promise for the first time in January 2007, when I became a Local Training Manager, before that I was a Training Adviser for around two years.  I became a member of the Scout Fellowship when I took the promise, but prior to this I was a Pack & Troop Assistant alongside SWMBO who was ABSL, CSL, and ASL, with 6th Shrewsbury, a Group that was closed by the District (lack of numbers), we've since moved on to 1st Robertsford (St Giles) to restart their Scout Troop, where I'm Troop Assistant, and the SWMBO is ASL.  Since then I've become Acting Group Chairman, and have also joined a Scout & Guide District Campsite Committee.

SWMBO has been involved in Scouting since 1999 (when our three sons started in Beavers & Cubs), starting as a Colony & Pack Assistant, and I got roped in to it soon after, she started Leader Training in 1999, and joined the County Training Team as an Assistant in 2001.  When the new Adult Training Scheme started in 2002 she became a Training Adviser.

Although I assess and validate Learners for their Wood Beads, and am now responsible for this across the County by managing Training Advisers, making recomendations to the County Training Manager, I'm yet to gain my own Wood Beads!

It's quite unusual, as a Training Adviser I attended all the Modules that Leaders attend, and was validated on all of the training for all of the Leader roles (Beavers/Cubs/Scouts/Explorers), but as I do not hold a Warrant as a Leader I cannot be awarded any Wood Beads.

My current training for the management Modules, 4, 20-25 is due to be completed this year, so I may actually get a set of Wood Beads (finally), and then I'm doing Facilitating & Presenting Modules (although I'm doing this already with Learners on Courses), and a few others they feel I need to do.

I was never invested as a Cub, I did four weeks and left, the problem back then (mid 1970's) was that I was trying to join a Scout Group that used to meet at the local Church Hall in Selly Oak, Birmingham, and they forced all the Cubs to attend Sunday School, I didn't want to go to Sunday School so that was the end of that.

All my sons went through to Explorers, one became a Young Leader, but has since gone to Uni, the second eldest is currently doing Scout Leader training and is aged 18, and is probably at around the same point as defuzz in his training.  He's joined the Scout Network instead of taking out a Warrant as a Leader, and is also a Troop Assistant at the Group, but as soon as he's completed his training he'll take out a Warrant as an ASL and immediately apply for his Wood Beads.  We've actually got three Troop Assistants doing exactly the same thing.

[mike142sl]

Muddy Scouters ! I've seen my fair share of them.

The posts so far are making me feel like an old git, having been a leader since 1981 when I was an ACSL with the 296th Sheffield for about 10 years, followed by ASL for 4 years then GSL for 4 Years. Before that I'd been a Cub & Scout with the 296th before moving to the District Venture Scout Unit and then returning as a leader.

I missed the contact with the lads as GSL and a plea for help from a neighbouring Troop in 1999 saw me move as SL to the 142nd Sheffield - hence my forum name. The website link to the left of this post takes you to our web site, which I set up and maintain.

My training was with the 'old' system but that gave me joint experience of Cub & Scout leadership which resulted in gaining my Wood Badge (do they call them wood beads now then?) I'm also a member of the District Exec, am one of the Nights Away Assessors, and hold a medal of merit.

The 142nd Sheffield HQ is very close to Houndkirk Moor, and Stanage, where we do alot of our playing about with hikes, shelter building, outdoor cooking etc... and we get a lot of climbing groups use the Scout Hut at weekends as we are also close to a lot of popular climbs. It's basic floor for a night stuff but if any Mud Clubbers would like somewhere cheap to stay that's close to Derbyshire lanes then feel free to take a look - there is a bookings calendar on the site which shows if it's free.

YIS

[Niel]

Hummm, just done ~7 years as ABSL, as Acting BSL for 5 of them, resigned end of last year as work this and next year will be frantic, and I don't want to be carp for both/either!
Joining Network, but was involved back in the '80's with 'SpearHead' out in the New Forest, where we had keys and 4x4's for crossing the forest tracks recovering Scouts on hikes etc, so lots of years all in all. Never a Scout myself, nor cub, 'little' brother was though, as are both of our sons.

[waveydavey]

I was in from cub to Venture, got my Chief Scout and well on the way to Queens.

I would be involved now but I do a job that is away for eight Months a year and that doesn't help a lot really.

[Panda]

Yes I'm a scouter with Ben as an ass explore leader along with being the district network chair :doh: :help:

I was a beaver, cub, Scout, Venture, Network and have also been an ASL and a SL at two diffrent groups. I'm part of the county water team as well.

I'm a queens scout and also was awarded with 'The Chief Scout's Commendation for Meritorious Conduct' last year.  :dance:

As for training I haven't done any official training as i move groups every two/three years so i don't have to do any  ;) ;) call me lazy but i just can't ever be bothered with it plus i never have time :lol:

I haven't used my truck for any scouting events yet as its new to me so Ive always used my Astra which i can get more stuff in than most land rover and its never let me down :D

[Tommo]

My mum made me join the cubs once, seem to remember making christmas cards. Never liked it.

[ben_haynes]

Yes I'm a scouter with Ben as an ass explore leader along with being the district network chair :doh: :help:

im not an ass (much :roll:) :lol:

Ive always used my Astra which i can get more stuff in than most land rover and its never let me down :D

dont tempt fait  :lol:

[Panda]

My Astar is mean and never gotten stuck at any scouting event. I didn't even get stuck when a range rover wouldn't temp it and i do belive that tom got stuck in his land rover  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[crazymac]

Started as a cub, moved to scouts then venture scouts, all in Glasgow. started as an assistant cub leader as part of an award I was working on (can't remember which one now?) and spent many weekends as a canoeing and sailing instructor at the Scout Activity Centre in Lochgoilhead between 84 and 88. (good times :dance:)

I had a brief flirtation back as a venture leader for the local troop here in Pembrokeshire about 15 years ago, but work dictated that I pack it in

[Wireless]

The Scout Association are going to be a lot stricter with requiring that people receive the training for their role, and having it validated, including training required for a change of role, or in cases where Leaders already hold Wood Badges and years of experience, that they undertake the required 5 hours ongoing learning every year.

The 'old' system has changed several times in the past, so which 'old' system people refer to has to be taken with a pinch of salt, even the new Adult Training Scheme is under review, especially Child Protection.

A lot of this is a result of the ongoing review of the appointments process made by the Association (I think this is Insurance Company led myself), and changes in Child Protection and CRB that the Government are currently undertaking.

Part of this change has been the move to a credit card sized membership card, issued every year, but exactly what is finally decided is anyone's guess.

Anyone that can't be bothered to set aside the time for training should question whether they themselves would trust someone to look after their own children, to someone who hasn't received any training, has no intention to undertake training, hasn't the time for it, etc, etc, have never received Leader Training, and probably as a result isn't holding a Warrant, and therefore isn't properly insured, and neither are the children.  I'm not suggesting this applies to anyone on this thread.

When you turn these things around and look at them from a parents perspective, and child protection perspective, there really isn't any excuse, everyone has to do training, and moving from one group to another every two or three years might have been a way of avoiding the issue in the past, but I'm not quite so sure this will be allowed in the future under whatever system they introduce.  Although one might continue to assert that gaining a Wood Badge / Beads isn't important, deep down you know you think different, and in any event the Scout Association (led by their Insurer I'm sure) thinks it is important.

Ok, I've got off the soap box...

[ben_haynes]

My Astar is mean and never gotten stuck at any scouting event. I didn't even get stuck when a range rover wouldn't temp it and i do belive that tom got stuck in his land rover  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

yes but he did have a heavy trailer on that had 10" whiils and the jocky wheel did not clear the Aframe properly :roll: my polo didnt get stuck there, neither did toms Pug :oops: :doh: and neither did the icecream van :-k [-X :lol: but fat mans Disco did :lol:

[Jimbo]

I've done the lot - cub, scout and venture scout. Then had a couple of years off, before becoming an ASL at a small village troop, I then moved back to my 'original' Group (where I'd been a cub and scout), and was ASL for many years, then 4 years ago I started the District Explorer Unit. We currently have 25 regular attendees, but due to the nature of Explorers I've actually got 35 on the books - three AESL's, and one knackered minibus. Got my 15 year long service award in 2005, and have just managed to complete my wood badge (training)  :oops:

Solihull products seem to be an important factor in our District - between the leaders we have a 110 (mine), D2 (mine), two 90's, a P38, two Freelanders and another 110............and as the Explorers get around to getting their 'first cars', at least two of them have bought Landrovers - so we must be doing something right !!

[Skibum346]

Started as a cub, moved to scouts then venture scouts, all in Glasgow. started as an assistant cub leader as part of an award I was working on (can't remember which one now?) and spent many weekends as a canoeing and sailing instructor at the Scout Activity Centre in Lochgoilhead between 84 and 88. (good times :dance:)

I had a brief flirtation back as a venture leader for the local troop here in Pembrokeshire about 15 years ago, but work dictated that I pack it in

I've been a cub and a scout, both in Aberdeen, loved it and only left due to joining the army. Got my chief scouts awards and have helped out on the odd occasion with my old group.

On the downside, I would have been a cub a lot earlier in life, whne living in Easterhouse in Glasgow my father took me to the local group (in the prodestant school, which for me as a catholic child was confusing). I got to join in a couple of games after dad dropped me, made a few new friends, then, when the leader asked what school I went to... I was told I couldn't attend that group. Confusing for a young child and very dissappointing.

However, left that kind of attittude behind moving to Aberdeen and all was well.

Long live the organisation.

Skibum

[Panda]

 :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: @ wireless

[ben_haynes]

Anyone that can't be bothered to set aside the time for training should question whether they themselves would trust someone to look after their own children, to someone who hasn't received any training, has no intention to undertake training, hasn't the time for it, etc, etc, have never received Leader Training, and probably as a result isn't holding a Warrant, and therefore isn't properly insured, and neither are the children.  I'm not suggesting this applies to anyone on this thread.

sorry mate but you are out of order saying this, i have known Panda a fair while and he is Great with the "Young People" and has far more knowledgable than most leaders who have done the training,

also if you have done your training, and you say you are a Training Manager and was an Adviser you should know that POR does not like the use of words such as Children it is Young Person / People, just thought i might piont this out to you

[Wireless]

Anyone that can't be bothered to set aside the time for training should question whether they themselves would trust someone to look after their own children, to someone who hasn't received any training, has no intention to undertake training, hasn't the time for it, etc, etc, have never received Leader Training, and probably as a result isn't holding a Warrant, and therefore isn't properly insured, and neither are the children.  I'm not suggesting this applies to anyone on this thread.

sorry mate but you are out of order saying this, i have known Panda a fair while and he is Great with the "Young People" and has far more knowledgable than most leaders who have done the training,

also if you have done your training, and you say you are a Training Manager and was an Adviser you should know that POR does not like the use of words such as Children it is Young Person / People, just thought i might piont this out to you

Well, I think I did include the disclaimer 'I'm not suggesting this applies to anyone on this thread.'

So I'm not out of order expressing an opinion on Child Protection, since we are all entitled to an opinion, just as I point out to you that I did not mention POR (Policy, Organisation, and Rules).

Child Protection, in terms of that operated by the CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) actually uses the terminology 'Children & Vulnerable Adults', not Young Person/People.  Perhaps I should point out that it's not called Young Person / People Protection.

We can exchange all sorts of views here, but the fact remains that my comments were not directed at anyone in particular, but the very fact that Panda responded in the way he did, and the fact that you have responded in the way that you have, must have been the result of my suggesting a change in the perspective that a situation should be viewed from, and thats all I wanted to put across.

Anything else you draw from that isn't something for which I can hold a responsibility.

Yours in Scouting

[Skibum346]

 =;

Enough.... I think this thread was supposed to be more fun than this....

 [-X

Let's all be a bit more forgiving... you would have thought that of anyone involved in this forum we scouts and ex scouts could remain peacable...

 [-o<

Anyone for a wide game?  :D

[LittlePaul]

Let's clarify a few things.

Panda, despite his blazé attitude in respect of training, will inevitably do some training.  In case anyone here hadnt noticed, he has recently been pulling through a couple of years of cancer following several years of ill health.  This, on top of an albeit drawn out transition from being a young leader (actually before the scheme Young Leaders was born - this was trialed and researched in Northants) hasnt actually left that much time for any warrant reviews anyway whereby this was followed up.  So to sumise, Panda was blazé, incorrect and not really serious about not needing to do training, but there is no issue here; he hasnt been actively leading in a static role for a while.

The Scout Assn isn't getting stricter to tighten up on these toerags; it already is tight, and they are now pushing people to simply follow the rules.  The rules say you need to do training; end of.  This is not directly linked to child protection, and reasons dont need to be explained.  Discussions on this arent really for this thread, it's pretty off topic, perhaps start a new one to move this to if you're interested in discussing it.  There are plenty of Scouting forums you can invite people to.

What has made me curious to reply is the signature.  Why do you put "Yours in Scouting" at the end of a communication ?
I work for a company called Komcept.  I dont sign letters off with "Yours in Komcept".  Can you explain what it means?

Yours in Mud Club, Paul

[ben_haynes]

hows things paul?

cut any ones fingers of recently?? moving that garage  :lol:

[LittlePaul]

hows things paul?

cut any ones fingers of recently?? moving that garage  :lol:

lol no.  ive been banned from moving garages!!  still havent got it fixed down properly - we start up again in May, coming along?  Thursday sessions for leaders again, and we're doing some weekend paddles too. stick july 12-13 in your diary, shoudl be hot by then.
been stacked out at work the last couple of months, abroad travel mostly.

hows u?

[ben_haynes]

hows things paul?

cut any ones fingers of recently?? moving that garage  :lol:

lol no.  ive been banned from moving garages!!  still havent got it fixed down properly - we start up again in May, coming along?  Thursday sessions for leaders again, and we're doing some weekend paddles too. stick july 12-13 in your diary, shoudl be hot by then.
been stacked out at work the last couple of months, abroad travel mostly.

hows u?

i might do want to get my Kayak training done, will stick that in my diary cheers

yer im good, my finger is healing some days it is painfull but only if im lifting with it  :(

[LittlePaul]

i might do want to get my Kayak training done, will stick that in my diary cheers

yer im good, my finger is healing some days it is painfull but only if im lifting with it  :(

Cool.  Yeah that should be no problem.  We have a canoe safety test in the diary, sometime in June.  Will get the date for you if you're interested.  If this is anything like last year, the first few months are going to be mega hot again, definitely making the most of that!

Cant believe your finger is still poorly!  Im guessing you dont so much look after it...? :)

[lee celtic]

I was in cubs and scouts in Partington Manchester from 1976 onwards until going to collage and discovering girls :lol: :lol: now that's what I call exploring ;)

I then ran the local cubs and scouts for a couple of years in Llanberis until the wife was taken ill and had to go to hospital for three weeks so I had three weeks away .When I came back the people who were supposed to be covering had shut it down because they said there was not enough adult support  :roll: Two of us had been running it for two years no problem  [-X so that's another 20 odd young people on the street corners with nothing to do .And yes I did consider starting up again but I was so disillusioned with the lack of support from within the organisation that I decided not to and just spend more time with my kids.

[LittlePaul]

I was in cubs and scouts in Partington Manchester from 1976 onwards until going to collage and discovering girls :lol: :lol: now that's what I call exploring ;)

I then ran the local cubs and scouts for a couple of years in Llanberis until the wife was taken ill and had to go to hospital for three weeks so I had three weeks away .When I came back the people who were supposed to be covering had shut it down because they said there was not enough adult support  :roll: Two of us had been running it for two years no problem  [-X so that's another 20 odd young people on the street corners with nothing to do .And yes I did consider starting up again but I was so disillusioned with the lack of support from within the organisation that I decided not to and just spend more time with my kids.

It's almost seasonal with changes of leadership generation - might be worth trying again.  I cant believe Scouting isnt massive in North Wales - especially Llanberis, but quite a few towns have only average sized groups with dwindling support.  There's no real mechanism for registering interest that if other people did, you'd go help.  Not many risk volunteering cos they'd be snapped up, overloaded, and put off again lol.

Our District (Northampton) bought the struggling youth hostel in Cynwyd (nr corwen) about 18months ago, and have refurbished it as a mountain and activity centre.  We're up there quite a lot running activity weekends and expeditions.  Very envious of your terrain!

[Niel]

So I'm not out of order expressing an opinion on Child Protection, since we are all entitled to an opinion, just as I point out to you that I did not mention POR (Policy, Organisation, and Rules).

Child Protection, in terms of that operated by the CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) actually uses the terminology 'Children & Vulnerable Adults', not Young Person/People.  Perhaps I should point out that it's not called Young Person / People Protection.

Yours in Scouting

Yep, but after spending most of last night in A&E with my eldest (Q.A. mostly bored to tears watching the drunks, stoned and arrested under escort) who was assaulted at Explorer Scouts, having just been invested, by some of the older ones (initiation still seems to feature in some units) the Scout Ass. still seems to be failing to recognise, 'children' are often bullied, physically and/or sexually assaulted by other Youth Members far more often than by 'Adult' members...

Niel, who's had to take the day off sick as I hadn't had any sleep.

[LittlePaul]

So I'm not out of order expressing an opinion on Child Protection, since we are all entitled to an opinion, just as I point out to you that I did not mention POR (Policy, Organisation, and Rules).

Child Protection, in terms of that operated by the CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) actually uses the terminology 'Children & Vulnerable Adults', not Young Person/People.  Perhaps I should point out that it's not called Young Person / People Protection.

Yours in Scouting

Yep, but after spending most of last night in A&E with my eldest (Q.A. mostly bored to tears watching the drunks, stoned and arrested under escort) who was assaulted at Explorer Scouts, having just been invested, by some of the older ones (initiation still seems to feature in some units) the Scout Ass. still seems to be failing to recognise, 'children' are often bullied, physically and/or sexually assaulted by other Youth Members far more often than by 'Adult' members...

Niel, who's had to take the day off sick as I hadn't had any sleep.

That's terrible, Ive never seen that in any of ours thankfully.  Make sure they have an accident form filled in, that might focus their minds.  Someone neutral and not in attendance fills it in, your son writes a report, as do the leaders in attendance.  The neutral person filling it in does a summary box too of their opinion of what happened, all of them get looked at by HQ.  Dunno if it'll help, but might make a start.  Paul

[Wireless]

Yep, but after spending most of last night in A&E with my eldest (Q.A. mostly bored to tears watching the drunks, stoned and arrested under escort) who was assaulted at Explorer Scouts, having just been invested, by some of the older ones (initiation still seems to feature in some units) the Scout Ass. still seems to be failing to recognise, 'children' are often bullied, physically and/or sexually assaulted by other Youth Members far more often than by 'Adult' members...

Niel, who's had to take the day off sick as I hadn't had any sleep.

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope your eldest recovers quickly from whatever happened, thats the main thing, and I hope it hasn't put him off Scouting either.

Bullying is something that has to recognised quickly and dealt with early, as the Scouts get older they are supposed to take on more personal responsibility, and given more opportunities to plan and organise time and activities for themselves.

The Leaders having less and less controlling input, moving from a 99% instructional role (Beavers) to a 90% facilitating role (Explorers) as a young person moves through the sections, as they grow and develop.

The minute your back is turned to deal with something else, a problem can occur, and there's often nothing you can do about it as there could have been no indication it's about to happen.  All you can do is recover the situation and that really depends on what has happened.  The Explorer Leaders are probably mortified that something took place behind their backs, and probably want to discuss the matter with you.

I don't think it's appropriate to think that the Scout Association doesn't recognise bullying by peers as being a problem, there's enough material available from HQ to highlight awareness amongst Leaders, including posters/information, yellow cards that every adult should carry, and..., dare I say it, training Modules, such as the one for Challenging Behaviour.

What has to be recognised is that Leaders aren't Child Care professionals, they are volunteers, and they don't have all the answers although they are probably very experienced with dealing with young people within the age range of their section/unit, what should be in place is an inclusive partnership with parents to minimise or deal with such events.

Difficult I know, if your eldest has only just been invested that night, but do talk to the Explorer Leaders, they are probably very eager to talk to you.

[defuzz]

I'll reiterate whats already been said, very sad to hear about yor son's experience and I genuinely hope it doesn't put him off Scouting.  I've been following the discussion over on the google group pages and there is certainly some good advice over there.

I think "Initiation" has a very wide meaning.  To me, violence or humiliation of a new member is plain old bullying, I know my old scout leader wouldn't have stood for it when I was 13 nor will I if I get any indication of it happening, as a young scout, the first wet camp was a pretty good bonding expereince without the need for singling out of "newbies".  But initiation doesn't have to be a bad thing, the whole investiture/going up ceremony is an initiation and is an important part of life as a scout as is the bonding of a troop when they "suffer" in the wet and cold together.