Urban knife crime and affect on rurlal life.....

[carbore]

Ok I appreciate there is a an issue with knife crime in the cities (media interest aside)

But I find this new legislation/guidence worrying

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7436141.stm

So if you have a knife in the car when laning, or are a sparky,carpeter,builder, farmer etc you now go to court. IF I put on my coat I was mowing in and there is a knife in the pocket when I pop out for a pasty im in court.

I see that the APCO would use discression but...

He said: "But the point at which they now would consider this individual has no previous conviction, there are no aggravating factors, that he or she might be subject to a caution, we are now saying no, that is now removed.

Lets not forget that we live in a target driven policing sociey (not the polices fault), so next will be on the sopt fines and the feat that if you dispute it its a court appearance, criminal record and no job forever. (Like what happens if you over fill your bin for example)

I look forward to the ban on matches in the fight against arson.

[Boggert]

So if you have a knife in the car when laning, or are a sparky,carpeter,builder, farmer etc you now go to court. IF I put on my coat I was mowing in and there is a knife in the pocket when I pop out for a pasty im in court.

Not totally true... if you need it for work or a hobby, like fishing, laning and shooting then its logic, you should be ok. just don't wave it around in public...

[diggerdog36]

Logic and CPS dont go in the same sentence!!!

[V8MoneyPit]

I've always carried a knife in the car. Just on the basis it's a useful tool to have around. I would hope that common sense would prevail if I were ever stopped and it was sat on the dashboard.

[python]

common sence and the govermnet dont get along either, they will do anything possible to strip us of any freedoms we have left.  :doh: :'(

[Silvery Thing]

I always carried a knife when I was a fireman. I once asked a policeman if this was OK and he said that so long that I could prove it was a tool of my trade then I would be alright :)

I think that so long as a knife is stored somewhere safe, out of sight and carried for lawful reasons then we really should not worry too much [-o<

[TDi90]

isnt it odd how you can keep a shotgun in the car when travelling to and from a shoot but not a knife....  :shock:  :doh:

Rob

[V8MoneyPit]

isnt it odd how you can keep a shotgun in the car when travelling to and from a shoot but not a knife....  :shock:  :doh:

Rob

I guess the difference is that the gun is licenced and they know who you are as a result.

[clbarclay]

Its the same old story though legislation is cheaper than police officers. How often are you ever likely to have to answer for carrying a knife?

I carry a pocket knife on me most of the time if not then there is often one in the car (farmer, engineer, fixing range rovers, opening bottles etc). Having said that it can lead to some complcancy, like forgetting its in my hand luggage before going on holiday. Some how manchester airport didn't see it and I only found out when I unpacked in france. Needless to say I didn't try my luck on the way back.


On the shot gun subject, IIRC you have to be with the car at the same time. If say on the way back from a shoot you stop for food at a cafe and leave the gun in the trunk then you are liable if anything happens to it.

[TDi90]

isnt it odd how you can keep a shotgun in the car when travelling to and from a shoot but not a knife....  :shock:  :doh:

Rob

I guess the difference is that the gun is licenced and they know who you are as a result.

true good point.

[Bob696]

I carry a hand axe in the back of my 90.

Well it aint a knife !!!!! :shock:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Looking at it from a Plod perspective, there are several things that concern me

1) legislation against something doesn't stop it happening. Dunblane and the ban on handguns. It has pee'd off a lot of genuine shooters, cost us our Olympic hopes, and has gun crime dropped? No.

2) ACPO and discretion. As mentioned previously, not words that go well together, seeing as ACPO are now a bunch of crawly arse bumlicks, rolling over to the Goverment.

3) This will be guaranteed to be 'preformance driven' hence a lot of people with genuine reasons for have a bladed instrumnet with them, will be arrested and criminalised, while 'da homies' get away with it.

I carry a Leatherman at all times. Perhaps I should start the ball rolling and arrest myself.

[Boggert]

I carry a Leatherman at all times. Perhaps I should start the ball rolling and arrest myself.

So do I.... Oh mate there are at least 2 detections there..... :roll:

If the press didn't make such a song and dance about it there probably wouldn't as much street cred for the chavs in carrying a knife.

[discomummy]

Hi,

i nearly got arrested in australia for carrying my swiss army knife, which i took out in a playground to cut up fruit for my kids!

fortunately, i got away with a warning - but i still carry a penknife as i still have kids who demand that i cut up their fruit!

regards

ela

[Bishops Finger]

So if you have a knife in the car when laning, or are a sparky,carpeter,builder, farmer etc you now go to court. IF I put on my coat I was mowing in and there is a knife in the pocket when I pop out for a pasty im in court.

Not totally true... if you need it for work or a hobby, like fishing, laning and shooting then its logic, you should be ok. just don't wave it around in public...

or the knife...... :lol: :lol:

[littlepow]

So when I go on det now my assualt rifle is legal, but the gerber and bayonet on my webbing isn't? Looks like a good Police officer could make a years worth of positive stats just by sitting outside Brize!

[redhand]

Bit of a storm in a teacup over nothing really. All it says is that they are lowering the age at which they would normally prosecute, from 18 to 16. Nothing else has changed.

[beast5680]

on the subject of knives i went to a couple of local car boot sales at the weekend and the amount of knives on sale there was astounding everything from kitchen knives to a samurai sword :shock: and the people there would sell to anyone with the right change regardless of age

[carbore]

I agree that car bots are a ratherinteresting, for example im fairly sure that samurai swards were outlawed the other week. Sale of someitems seems to depend on the council, one I used to go to wouldnt let you sell anything electrical.

Re age change its not the main issue, its the automatic prosecution without aggravating factors.

[redhand]

Re age change its not the main issue, its the automatic prosecution without aggravating factors.

But that's not what's been said.

"The change follows a meeting between Gordon Brown, police and legal chiefs, to extend the "presumption of prosecution" in knife cases.
Previous police guidance was to prosecute adults caught with a knife, but to caution those under 18. "
"Previously, the "presumption of prosecution" had applied only to those aged over 18 who carry a knife without good reason. "

[carbore]

Hmm having re read the atricle I agree it is more about 16-18 however I am still concerned about target lead policing, even if i may have over egged this issue.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I've always tried to look at things in a practicle way. If it is some chav with a blade at 2.ooam in the morning and the reason is "I forgot to take it out o9f my pocket after work", then they come in. Its up to them to prove that it isn't there for a criminal purpose.
Most murders in this country are domestic related, and 'ordinary' knives are used. However the current trend is worrying. If the Police were allowed to do what all officers know should be done, the problem could be solved. But, that wouldn't be politically acceptable. The public may like it, but the 'Members' would get upset. :roll:

[bravo669]

ACPO does state that discretion should be used, but nowadays alot of policemen (especially younger ones) dont use it and just confiscate the knife, and often you never see it again. its happened to a friend of mine who worked for a gamekeeper. its a problem for me because im a bit of a yokel and carry a knife to work, keep one in the truck etc... but the main target for the police is the chavvy sods that take them out to the pub!
as long as you have a good reason for havng a knife you can get away with it, although even if its in the bootof your car and you drive through town, its still classed as possessing an offensive weapon in a public place! unbelievable!

[Mr Bump]

I was googling for something completely different (as you do) and found this

http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm?questionofthedayid=339

Possession of a multi-tool incorporating a prohibited blade/pointed article is capable of being an offence under this section even if there are other tools on the instrument which may be of use to a person in a public place (screwdriver, can opener). It is for the person to prove on the balance of probabilities that he/she had good reason for possession.


How about "I drive a Land Rover and it breaks down a lot so I never leave the house without being tooled up. Ossifer."  8-[ 8-[ 8-[

[redhand]

I've just bought a machete, with a 16" blade  :twisted: Where does that put me  :lol:

[bravo669]

I've just bought a machete, with a 16" blade  :twisted: Where does that put me  :lol:

if you get challenged, you're going off roading and there may be overgrown bushes on the way! keep it hidden though, thats always the best advice.
you'll have to find a huge bush to test fire it!

[Saffy]

just counted the cutlery tooling in my truck and I scared myself:

1 UK army issue machete (lost somewhere in the truck - now found)
1 UK patterned machete (bought while other was lost)
1 leatherman multitool classic - usually on my belt
1 frost/mora clipper general use/bushcrafting blade
1 folding saw
1 bow saw
1 hand manual chain saw
2 x mini SSK on car keyring
1 cheapy multi tool floating around in tool box
1 half decent "camping" axe

I might have to trim this down a bit by buying a bigger better machete and discarding a saw or two,  the axe and the other machete', though the folding garden saw is great off road - easily rip thru 3 inch green or dead.

[gtomo2]

On the subject of knife crime and the goverments new ad campain why does it show a guy who's been stabed with a screwdriver. guess whats going to be banned next. Soon we wont be able to carry any tools in our landys

[carbore]

Phew relief,

Im not going to get pulled over because I just saw my local copper on spring watch and he is too busy looking at the local wildlife (seriously!)

[littlepow]

I've just bought a machete, with a 16" blade  :twisted: Where does that put me  :lol:

Probably here  :doh:

Depends on why you are carrying it and on what grounds your vehicle has been stopped and searched.