waffle boards

[muddyweb]

Why you feel the need to personalise this debate and start making childish insults is beyond me. I can only assume it's an attempt to draw peoples attention away from the fact that people are been ripped off.

I haven't made any personal insults towards you.  I have answered the questions you posed and presented information.  The fact that you have chosen not to believe the information I have offered is your lookout and your choice. 

There are different types of "waffles" available on the market.  Some are the by-product of a different application (flooring off-cuts), and even in this application there are a number of different grades of material used (take a look on the website you posted earlier)...   

There are also products specifically produced to be a waffle which are not off-cuts.   I prefer these products...  they have sealed edges, they have a good surface for vehiclular use and I believe that they are stronger...   from a supplier perspective they are also better because we can ensure consistency of supply and specification.

The key thing here....    You need to be careful about making such sweeping statements in writing on a public forum unless you have some actual evidence to support what you say...   as yet, I have seen no evidence other than your own supposition that what you have stated is true (i.e. that all waffle boards from 4x4 suppliers are just flooring off-cuts and hence a rip-off).

You have challenged us to prove that your statement is incorrect, but I'm afraid the world doesn't work like that...   you can't just go making allegations with no proof to support them and challenge people to prove they are not true...   

As I've said before... some people will buy waffles from us, some won't.  The vast majority of people who do are buying them for situations where they want to feel confident that the product will not let them down, and that is what our customers tell us.   

I've used both specifically formed waffles and grating offcuts in a number of situations including challenge competition and overland travel...  it's part of my job to research things like that to see if there is something we are missing in our product line.  Both work and do the job, but I found that the moulded waffles were tougher and more resilient to abuse.    If you are only ever going to use them on the odd occasion (for example on a greenlane or pay & play site), then the off-cut types are probably fine.

You can make of that whatever you will, but please refrain from hurling any more sweeping statements around unless you have something to back them up.

[Dr Evil]

I know which Two people I'm going to listen to........... :lol: :lol:

[glaggs]

Redhand - if you knew some of the margins that suppliers work to you would realise that far from being ripped off, these people do it because they love the 4x4 world and not to become millionares. As for the Waffles - yes wander round and make an informed choice - I'll be helping my contact on the LRS stand and we've no problems showing off the waffles. They will be 'reasonably priced' but if you think they're not up to the job feel free to see what other people have. LRS don't hide the fact that their waffles started life as a large piece of industrial flooring - but we will demonstate there capability, as I'm sure other suppliers will also be willing to do.

[redhand]

Redhand - if you knew some of the margins that suppliers work to you would realise that far from being ripped off, these people do it because they love the 4x4 world and not to become millionares. As for the Waffles - yes wander round and make an informed choice - I'll be helping my contact on the LRS stand and we've no problems showing off the waffles. They will be 'reasonably priced' but if you think they're not up to the job feel free to see what other people have. LRS don't hide the fact that their waffles started life as a large piece of industrial flooring - but we will demonstate there capability, as I'm sure other suppliers will also be willing to do.
[/quote

I don't have a problem with offcuts they get my vote everytime. Ok so certain suppliers get there waffle boards tarted up as bit. but they have the same breaking strains and load bearing capabilties, as floor gratings.

[muddyweb]

Ok so certain suppliers get there waffle boards tarted up as bit. but they have the same breaking strains and load bearing capabilties, as floor gratings.

Please share with the group.....   Please show us the figures for load bearing, deflection and ultimate breaking strength for floor grating and for our waffles.    Your turn to come up with some proof.

[redhand]

Ok so certain suppliers get there waffle boards tarted up as bit. but they have the same breaking strains and load bearing capabilties, as floor gratings.

Please share with the group.....   Please show us the figures for load bearing, deflection and ultimate breaking strength for floor grating and for our waffles.    Your turn to come up with some proof.

I've already asked you for load bearing and stress data for your products and you declined to provide them. Because you know as well as I do that they will be identical to the figures supplied by the flooring grid manufacturers

[muddyweb]

I've already asked you for load bearing and stress data for your products and you declined to provide them. Because you know as well as I do that they will be identical to the figures supplied by the flooring grid manufacturers

They aren't...  I know that.  But I'm not the one making allegations here...   so, come up with something to back your claim, or just admit that your posts are based on your opinion rather than any sort of fact.

[Jake]

Blimey, this is still going on  :roll:
I take it you didn't bother to come over and have a look at our waffles then  :-.
Why not?
 :?

[redhand]

Blimey, this is still going on  :roll:
I take it you didn't bother to come over and have a look at our waffles then  :-.
Why not?
 :?

Mainly because I was in Hull, working.

[clbarclay]

I was a billing and had a looking at some waffles on the devon stand (a pile of waffles at the edge of the tent near the super sized mach 5)

Now just to set this straight, I am not saying that d44 waffles are or are not off cuts. However I was left with some questions having looked at the waffles on you stand, and having more pressing issues to deal with at the show, I didn't bother asking about them there.

Since you are going to be at Billing, just wander over to our stand, (you don't even need to speak to anyone so we won't try and influence you or sell you any), and look with your own eyes at the waffles.   They are different to the floor grating offcuts...   they have sealed edges....

What exactly do you mean by sealed edges? all the waffles I saw on your stand had the distinct raised and ground down markings a long one edge the same as other suppliers waffles I saw at the show, though ground a lot neater than some others.

Were these your propper waffles?
If they were molded to shape in a dedicate mould, why are there what apperared to be "off cut" markings?

[lambert]

Is there an ideal ratio of waffle length to wheelbase? Ie is it advisable to be able to get both axles onto the board or does that make life difficult?

[redhand]

Is there an ideal ratio of waffle length to wheelbase? Ie is it advisable to be able to get both axles onto the board or does that make life difficult?

There usually between 3'6" and 5' mainly because there made in approximately 10' x 5' sheets So unless you drive a mini It's unlikely that you'll find one long enough to get both sets of wheels on. Unless you order an extra long set.

[redhand]

I was a billing and had a looking at some waffles on the devon stand (a pile of waffles at the edge of the tent near the super sized mach 5)

Now just to set this straight, I am not saying that d44 waffles are or are not off cuts. However I was left with some questions having looked at the waffles on you stand, and having more pressing issues to deal with at the show, I didn't bother asking about them there.

Since you are going to be at Billing, just wander over to our stand, (you don't even need to speak to anyone so we won't try and influence you or sell you any), and look with your own eyes at the waffles.   They are different to the floor grating offcuts...   they have sealed edges....

What exactly do you mean by sealed edges? all the waffles I saw on your stand had the distinct raised and ground down markings a long one edge the same as other suppliers waffles I saw at the show, though ground a lot neater than some others.

Were these your propper waffles?
If they were molded to shape in a dedicate mould, why are there what apperared to be "off cut" markings?

Did you ever get an answer to your questions??

[Mr Bump]

Why is it I keep being drawn to this thread? It's like driving by an accident and being unable to not look  :'(

Jake and Mods, hats off to you, you're more than patient 

[Jake]

Jake and Mods, hats off to you, you're more than patient 

:lol:Cheers :D
Its not easy when you have information which you cant use which would kill this thread dead (but i like my job too much to get fired for using it  :roll:)
The whole point of my original post was that not all waffles are the same.
This point has been argued till blue in the face but it still seems that some folk fail to believe that there is more than one company that produce them.
There was talk of one company claiming they use off cuts and supply *most* of the 4x4 retailers in the uk.
I'd like some proof that this company claims to be supplying Devon 4x4 because if they say they do, its untrue
Unfortunetly i cant provide proof to disclaim this as it would reveal where in the world ours come from and would lead the competition to their door.
The only thing i can now say on this is look around competitions, talk to people that win regular and talk to them about waffles and where they get there's
Listen to the people that use them professionally and see if they like to waste money on cheap off cuts
I'm sure this will roll on and on but i cant say any more than i now have.
Over and out.
 :)

[redhand]

This point has been argued till blue in the face but it still seems that some folk fail to believe that there is more than one company that produce them.
There was talk of one company claiming they use off cuts and supply *most* of the 4x4 retailers in the uk.
I'd like some proof that this company claims to be supplying Devon 4x4 because if they say they do, its untrue :)

I don't think anyone anywhere in this thread has said that only one company makes waffle boards. Not sure where you got that idea from.

[redhand]

For reference and to had a few "facts" to this thread. Here is the loadings data for 1 Companies Products  http://www.fibreglassgrating.co.uk/fibreglass_grating_load_def_data.html#standard As can be clearly seen the failure loadings are way higher than anything that even a fully loaded 4x4 is going to impose on them.

[littlepow]

You all seem to be missing one important thing.

Simple cost/value question, would you prefer to spend £30 on unknown quality waffle board to suspend £1,000's motor on or would you pay a bit more for stuff you could trust and have been designed for the task?

At the end of the day, when you are using a waffle board to bridge a gap, the cost of it failing way out ways the cost of a decent set in the first place. There are occasions when spending a little bit more could make the difference between making it across the obsticle and going home in an ambulance.

So what value do you place on yoyur life and that of your passengers? Are they worth an extra few £'s for a safer product?

Oh and I don't work for any 4x4 manufacturer, parts supplier in anyway. So not baised towards any set product.

[redhand]

You all seem to be missing one important thing.

Simple cost/value question, would you prefer to spend £30 on unknown quality waffle board to suspend £1,000's motor on or would you pay a bit more for stuff you could trust and have been designed for the task?

At the end of the day, when you are using a waffle board to bridge a gap, the cost of it failing way out ways the cost of a decent set in the first place. There are occasions when spending a little bit more could make the difference between making it across the obsticle and going home in an ambulance.

So what value do you place on yoyur life and that of your passengers? Are they worth an extra few £'s for a safer product?

Oh and I don't work for any 4x4 manufacturer, parts supplier in anyway. So not baised towards any set product.

I couldn't agree more. But unfortunatly we only have Devon4x4 et:al word that they are better/stronger etc. By their own admission they have never had their waffles tested and have no idea of their load rating or SWL. At least if you buy floor gratings for use as waffle boards. You know you are buying something which has met strict safety testing and which has been load rated. and that these manufacturers are happy for you to see the test data and loadings.

[corrosiverob]

I tend to agree with Redhand here.

I would like to have the proof/certificate if i was to purchase from anywhere.


Do D44 have any information on these?

[beast5680]

*yawns* weathers nice i think i,ll have a bbq

[muddyweb]

I couldn't agree more. But unfortunatly we only have Devon4x4 et:al word that they are better/stronger etc. By their own admission they have never had their waffles tested and have no idea of their load rating or SWL. At least if you buy floor gratings for use as waffle boards. You know you are buying something which has met strict safety testing and which has been load rated. and that these manufacturers are happy for you to see the test data and loadings.

I was leaving this alone, mostly because I hoped that you would eventually get bored of trying to taunt us.   I have specification and data sheets for the waffles we make... these include deflection ratings and ultimate breaking loads...    For what it is worth they are *higher* than the link you posted.   You can take my word for it or not... I really couldn't care less.

The reason this thread dragged out is that you started out by saying that companies such as ours were deliberately "ripping off" customers...   that is what Jake originally objected to and that is why I have been taking issue with the things you are saying.   

Now, due to the sudden loss of someone this week I am not in the best of moods... so I will warn you now as an administrator of this forum...  If you make another unfounded accusation against me or the company I work for then action will be taken.   It is a direct breach of the forum guidelines, and the only reason the moderators haven't already taken action is because I asked them to keep away.

Please take a moment to think before you decide to reply to this..  Don't bother coming back trying to be clever, or screaming censorship.... because I really don't care.    I've put up with all the nonsense I'm going to take from you.

[redhand]

I couldn't agree more. But unfortunatly we only have Devon4x4 et:al word that they are better/stronger etc. By their own admission they have never had their waffles tested and have no idea of their load rating or SWL. At least if you buy floor gratings for use as waffle boards. You know you are buying something which has met strict safety testing and which has been load rated. and that these manufacturers are happy for you to see the test data and loadings.

I was leaving this alone, mostly because I hoped that you would eventually get bored of trying to taunt us.   I have specification and data sheets for the waffles we make... these include deflection ratings and ultimate breaking loads...    For what it is worth they are *higher* than the link you posted.   You can take my word for it or not... I really couldn't care less.

The reason this thread dragged out is that you started out by saying that companies such as ours were deliberately "ripping off" customers...   that is what Jake originally objected to and that is why I have been taking issue with the things you are saying.   

Now, due to the sudden loss of someone this week I am not in the best of moods... so I will warn you now as an administrator of this forum...  If you make another unfounded accusation against me or the company I work for then action will be taken.   It is a direct breach of the forum guidelines, and the only reason the moderators haven't already taken action is because I asked them to keep away.

Please take a moment to think before you decide to reply to this..  Don't bother coming back trying to be clever, or screaming censorship.... because I really don't care.    I've put up with all the nonsense I'm going to take from you.

I'm sorry for you're loss. However I really don't see why the admin should have any reason to step in and interfere with this thread. No one has been insulted or abused. There has been attempts to belittle the arguement. but certainly nothing to cause them to lock the thread or issue warnings. Obviously you have a vested interest as an employee of a 4x4 parts outlet. But you need to decide which hat your wearing in regards to this thread either it's as an impartial Forum Mod/Administrator. In which case you shouldn't have posted in this thread at all. Or as a waffle board supplier defending your business interests. In which case you should withdraw fromn any decisions with respect to the administration of this thread.

At the end of the day my point of view remains the same as it did when this thread started. That you can buy a set of flooring grid cutoffs which will do everything that any 4x4 driver wants of them. Safely and without fear of them breaking. Without having to fork out large amounts of money.

Now you say that you have data and test loadings. Yet when I asked you for those figures earlier in this debate you told me the boards you sell weren't rated :?

Surely the simplest thing to do would have been to post the figures, and that would have killed the argument ages ago.  I'm not winding anyone up. If you've been upset by my posts then I apologise because I certainly never intended to cause anyone any offence. and the ripoff allegation was only made once and that was after the arguement was personalised and an attempt made to make me look like some sort of conspiracy nut.

[ne jones]

Tim sorry to hear of your loss, and well said!

[Eeyore]

And I'm bringing this to a close, until such point that the main protagonist decides to support their stated accusations (which is what they amount too).

Its a shame that despite a reasoned request by an Adminsitrator and all-round sensible Bod, some folk still feel the need to persue what is a flawed and valueless argument with a disagreeable level of vitriol. I'll be blunt - support your claim, or zip it, dude.  :-$

I would like the protagonist to step away from the keyboard for a few hours and think long and hard about persuing such discussions further. Slanderous accusations against any purveyors cannot be tolerated. Berrating the Adminstrators is also purdy unwise.

Thread locked.