Looking for advice on my next vehicle with off-road capability

[joecuba]

First post on here - sorry if it's a bit long winded!

I am looking for a new vehicle with off road capability at the moment, and was wondering if anyone can help with any suggestions?

Have at the moment an old '97 Subaru Legacy. It is good on the motorway, comfortable, and reasonably solid for it's age (although rust is starting to take hold). It is a bit overburdened when full of 4 blokes + bikes + camping gear (esp rear springs, there is just enough room!). However, It doesn't have the clearance to go through reasonably deep fords with fairly steep banks, or over boggy farmland. Poor fuel economy for it's size, but good safety rating!

I started looking at the Legacy Outback, it is great, but I am worried it still isn't enough for deep fording. I discovered the Delica, which looked exciting until I found out the safety rating. I have briefly considered various Land Rovers, but don't think that are good for long trips. Subaru Forester is a possibility, but a bit characterless and not sure it is really that much better than an Outback for what I need to do.

I am not a big fan of the 'Chelsea Tractor' style vehicles, it always strikes me there is way less room in them than in an estate car.

Anyone have any suggestions as to vehicles worth checking out?


USAGE:

General town trips 1-3 times weekly shopping etc

Monthly inter city trip (80 miles)

Mountain Bike trips with up to 4 people with bikes and tents etc (have a 3 bike towball bike rack)

Occasional long distance trips (say three times yearly Scotland to London and back)

Occasional camping holidays in Scottish Highland

Bi-monthly (for 6 months in a year) trips including fording approx 14 inch deep rivers with approx 40 degree exit banks

Occasional trips across farmland, including approx 6" ruts and mud

About 5000 miles a year total


REQUIREMENTS:

Carry two as comfortably as possible
Carry 4 in reasonable comfort for long trips (8 hours)
Carry 5 for short trips - any more is a bonus

As safe as possible

Reasonable security for city parking

Strong, long term proposition (good for project upgrades)

Fun and with character

Reasonable speed (not too slow) but with basic off road capability, good all rounder

Tow ball + electrics

Budget of around £3000 - less if possible


CONSIDERED:

Subaru Legacy Outback - a bit higher ground clearance than the standard Legacy I have, better featured, but otherwise the same car really. Questionable if it would be any better for the fords or with a full car + bikes.

Subaru Forester - Still questionable if it is enough for the fords and rough farmland. Shorter than the Legacy?

Land Rover mk2 - Too rough for anything other than short trips, but fun

Land Rover Defender 90 / 110 - Still hard work on long trips

Mitsubishi Delica L300 / L400 - Good clearance, good carrying capacity. Fuel economy not much worse than the Subaru, for it's size. However, serious worries about the 300s safety, and the 400's safety is still not nearly as good as the Subaru. Looks good fun and comfortable, bags of room. Good off road capability.

Toyota Hilux - Usual two seater not suitable, not sure of other versions?

Steyr Pinzgauer - Totally OTT, one for when I am rich :-)

[pux]

land rover discovery just put a bike rack on.

[boss]

agreed, the discovery will suite you perfectly. just put some knobbly tyres on it.

[ben_haynes]

for comfort on motorway driving you want a discovery or range rover, or a Mitsubishi shogun/Pajero or Toyota Landcruiser

[joecuba]

Thanks for the answers so far!

I have a Thule Ride-On tow hitch 3 bike carrier, so that isn't a problem http://www.roofrackcentre.com.au/assets/acc/bikes/rideon.jpg

I did look breifly at the Disco, but TBH it is the least exciting vehicle I can think of, the styling is really dated to me and they don't have the charm of series / defender land rovers. A Disco isn't a car I would buy to keep and be happy with, it would be purely utilitarian I think, and I am sure it would feel a step down from the Subaru on everything apart from the tricky off road sections :-(

Still, I can understand the logic behind the sugestion.

Oh, and my parents had a Disco a few years back, and I slagged it off rotten for being made out of old Austin Allergo parts :-)

Range Rover has a better look to me, hmmm....

[lightweight-love]

you could get a good condition discovery with lifted springs n few offroad mods whatever takes your fancy to spice it up a bit for not much money really, or a shogun could suit you well except not too good on MPG...

[ben_haynes]

you could get a good condition discovery with lifted springs n few offroad mods whatever takes your fancy to spice it up a bit for not much money really, or a shogun could suit you well except not too good on MPG...

I dis agree on the shogun MPG our Pajero at work gives us the same MPG as my boss's 300TDi disco and the Pajero has a car transport trailer attached to it 24/7

[Bishops Finger]

Citroen 2CV????

[Wireless]

I had an allegro, it was a good car, took me all over Scotland, seemed to use more oil than petrol though, and I only parted with it when the crank shaft pully wheel fell off...

Standard Disco 300 TDI or V8 LPG on BFG AT's would suit his requirements, and at the end of the day for 5,000 miles per annum you could even consider a Lada Niva, who gives a monkeys what it looks like as long as it does the job.

Me I'm saving up for the Range Rover next, but then I would do more than 5k per annum and only use the one vehicle.

[JumboBeef]

Discos are excellent motors.

Also don't write off the Defender: we have two and I cover about 20,000 Defender miles per year  :dance:

[lambert]

What you need is a 7 seat terrano tdi.

[andyw]

What about a Hilux Surf or a Landcruiser Colorado.

[mudmuncher]

A 2.5 pajero will give you more mpg than the 2.8.

[Tommo]

LUAZ 969M

[joecuba]

Thanks for the sensible ideas.

I don't think the Discovery is for me, I just don't like it.

Likewise I don't like the Pajero, Landcruiser, and Terrano - I think it is something to do with the bodyshape on these things.

Hilux Surf looks like it would be worth considering, much more what I am looking for for some reason.

Range Rover I would consider as well.

Still toying with the idea of a Delica L400.

Either that or I get a 6" push button lift installed in a Subaru Outback  :D

[general baxter]

nissan patrol?

[carbore]

OK,

How about a double cab jap pickup with rear "truckman" or similar. Lots of flexibility and you can take the back off for ultimate load carrying.

Something like an L200, Hilux, Ford range (not jap),

Also shogun sports are basically the same but have a body on.

I think subarus may have the electrics too low due to the boxer engine format.

[McGuire]

 Nissan Navara fits the bill.

[boss]

sod it just go get your self an ibex made! :lol:

[DoubleTop]

ranger double cab - they can be found real cheap as a lot of builders yards use them for three years and then sell them on once off the books. ;)

T.

[laser_jock99]

Hilux Surf might fit the bill- more info here:

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/index.php

Avoid the 2.4 TD engine unless the head's been replaced already.

I'm looking at Delica's as I might need a 4WD 8 seater for accessing a remote property. I've seen Delicas offroading and they go well- but as you state they have had bad publicity recently due to one fatal crash on a motorway.

[boss]

they have had bad publicity recently due to one fatal crash on a motorway.

and because there ugly! hahaha

[ben_haynes]

they have had bad publicity recently due to one fatal crash on a motorway.

and because there ugly! hahaha

and they have crap articulation

[Disco Matt]

I've just been reading the reports on that crash (well, what passes for journalism on The Sun website - they illustrated it with a photo of the wrong Delica methinks...). Look at it this way, the AC Cobra and Porsche 911 are both known to have a habit of spitting unwary drivers into the scenery with often fatal results. I don't see many people demanding they be banned.

You need a Discovery. If you can look beyond the styling it will do everything you need in considerable comfort. Just ask yourself at what point "dated" becomes "classic"? I like the fact that it has clearly defined components rather than the featureless "blob" design of a lot of new cars.

The only Allegro bits are the doorhandles, and they've not given me any trouble at all. LR only took the bits they could use from the corporate parts bin!

[boss]

the sun is a glorified comic!

as for discos looks i think they look good if there ligted with big tyres and a hd bumper.
another alternative is a disco2, we have one and its very nice nice interior trim(es prem) and a rugged off roader on the outside!

[Disco Matt]

the sun is a glorified comic!

Well said!  :clap:

I found it most interesting that the image used was identical to that on Wikipedia. I'm sure they didn't just take the lazy route and steal it... [/sarcasm]

You don't really need to lift them - for the vast majority of laning they'll cope perfectly if you add A/Ts and a detachable towbar.

[Rich_P]

The only Allegro bits are the doorhandles, and they've not given me any trouble at all. LR only took the bits they could use from the corporate parts bin!

Don't forget the Maestro lights.  :lol:

I think joe needs to get used to the idea of a LR being made up of parts from the parts bin, considering pretty much all of the Land Rover model range up to the mid-1990s utilised bits from the Leyland/Rover Group parts bin!  :P

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

One of the below.

Total off road capability, loads of carrying space, a nice colour, open top for summer driving, optional anti theft measures (.50 cal MG).

[mudmuncher]

I have a 4.6hse Range Rover that I tow the caravan with. Bril machine and worth the 20 mpg

[joecuba]

What is better on the Discovery than the Toyota Surf / 4Runner?

I am not a fan in general of the 'usual' 4x4 styling, the Discovery, Pajero, Landcruiser, Terrano, Navara etc all fit into this niche - they look too 'fat' to me  :D

The Range Rover has a better look for some reason. The Landy has a good look as well, and I do like the Surf / 4Runner / Hilux styling very much. The Delica looks 'different', I can see why people don't like it, but I think it is better than the 'jelly mold' cookie cutter 4x4 look a lot of vehicles have.

Not that I cannot appreciate good engineering without getting caught up in styline (I like my Legacy after all  :P ), but it would be good to have a vehicle that I liked the look of!