Cardan Propshaft (Scorpion?) UJ replacement

[JDB]

Evening - a little bit of help please.
I have a (I think) Scorpion Cardan Propshaft, the UJs were a little worn, I have replaced the front one (part no STC 3466 I recall).
I need to replace the rear one (STC 3466 again I think) and the one with the whole through for the ball joint - does anyone know the part number and the method of extraction/replacement?

Prop is on a Disco 300tdi if it makes any difference.

Pics as below

[Disco_Stu]

I'm not getting you mate, probably me being dense but...

3 ujs, 2 at the front one at the back, lets call them back middle and front starting from the Tbox.

I haven't got one but from those pics they just look likle standard UJ's, circlips off, few whacks with the appropriate socket in both directions, pop them out, fit new ones. You've done two already, is the 3rd different?

It looks almost as if its just 2 uj's butted up to a spacer/mating plate. Is that where the ball joint you mention is, through the middle of there?

If it is I can't see any bolts or owt so I'd strip both middle and front UJ's, remove the yokes and see whats what when you've just got the centre part of the double joint in your hand.

Stu.

[JDB]

..... the middle UJ has a hole through it for a shaft - at the end of which is a ball and socket joint which is part of the join to the third UJ mount - see the 2nd photo - you can just see the side of the ball.  Normal "whacking"does not work!  Its not as simple as 2 UJs welded together!

[Range Rover Blues]

I can't seeform the photo if they are held in by circlips but you are right, a normal UJ overhaul kit is useless for the Cardan joint.

Have you tried contacting Scorpion direct?

If they are no help trawl the yellow pages for a propshaft specialist, I'd recomend Propshaft Technology in Rotherham but you aren't local.

[wizard]

Hi
 It looks a bit like the early series v8 shafts.
They had nylon injected around the "circlip "groove, which is machined into the UJ and not out side as you would expect.
If you have no joy with scrapiron try these guys www.propshaft.co.uk/
They rebuilt one of my carden shafts.


regards
wizard :twisted:

[JDB]

wizard - thanks - have sent them an email.
The UJs are normal fixing with a circlip, its the joint which rally stops you smacking out as you would normally.  My local garage are going to have a look tomorrow to see if they have any bright ideas, if not then posting it off to a specialist.
Scorpion have not replied to an email (and pics)
Can I ask what they charged you to rebuild yours?
Thanks

[hobbit]

Another one worth a look out, near me is Wilson Driveshafts

http://www.wilsondriveshafts.co.uk/

[G30RGE]

Not sure how/where they get there shafts done but I have a feeling that if it is a standard LR end - then they are quoted as 'not rebuildable'

[Eeyore]

From the looks of the shaft in the piccy, the centre coupling arrangement doesn't look in the best of conditions, in which case that usually means a new DC unit (a GKN jobby, ala DII is about 120 fitted).

However, a quick master class in propshafts:
A cardan unit is a single universal joint (two yokes, one cruciform).
A shaft, with UJs (or 'cardan' joints) at both ends is a 'cardan shaft'
A Double-Cardan unit, is where you have two close-coupled UJs, as is seen on the big lump at the end of the pictured shaft.
If you're phoning up a prop place looking for bits, this will make a heck of a difference.

Looking at the shaft up top, I've no idea where SR sourced the DC unit from, it doesn't look like an early LR unit (which were weld-on, wide-yoked jobbies made by Saginaw). It definately isn't a later LR unit because they were weld-on jobs made by GKN. Both these units were rebuildable to a point - if the close-coupling between then the two UJs was shot then it's new DC unit time. I have no idea where SR sourced the DC unit in the picture, which may make replacing that one problematic.

The best advice would be the ditch the propshaft shown and get one of the prop specialists to supply one with a more 'regular' DC unit on it.

Hope this helps!

[wizard]

Hi
I think i paid £120 for a full rebuild.

wizard

[Eeyore]

Hi
I think i paid £120 for a full rebuild.

What was included in that? Always interested in cheaper places. 

[JDB]

Eyeore - thanks - great advice and always good to learn more.

Shaft joint is actually not too bad - its pretty filthy and covered in grease and will probably survive a little longer, the local garage has done a grand job of dismantling it for me and they have a bearing "ninja" coming to have a look to see if he can source the "UJ with a hole through it" to then rebuild.  Its an interesting exercise and should be a good lesson to me (and others) to be more generous with the grease gun  - but then it could just be anno domini anyway.

[Range Rover Blues]

A cardan unit is a single universal joint (two yokes, one cruciform).

That's a HOOKE'S joint.  When I worked in the motor industry, a Cardan joint was the double UJ/CV type joint.

But then I suppose it gets called different things in different places, like a Birmingham screwdriver.

[JDB]

Hmm - done some research for Hookes-
Patent here - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3986238.html
Description here - http://unicopter.com/B274.html
And here - http://www.4wdonline.com/A.hints/Universal.html

Doesn't help get it repaired - but does educate me!

[Range Rover Blues]

The third one doesn't look identical to the one you pictured above, so perhaps it's not a stage 1 V8 prop after all :-k

Propshaft specialist.  I'm told these aren't the srt of joints you want to takle at home anyway.

[JDB]

The third one doesn't look identical to the one you pictured above, so perhaps it's not a stage 1 V8 prop after all :-k

Acknowledged the pic in the article is different and more like the TD5 Cardan.

[Range Rover Blues]

TD5 one is different again, for on thing the PCD is bogger, for another it's designed slightly differently.

[JDB]

TD5 one is different again, for on thing the PCD is bogger, for another it's designed slightly differently.

The TD5 and flange change may be the cheapest option at the moment, the local garage bearing man cannot match it - so now to Plan B - call those recommended here.

[JDB]

Still working on this and sourcing a repair kit, if not its in a box off to one of the repair guys recommended above.
Here's some photos who those who were unsure how these things are made- you can see the ball and socket joint in these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JonB427/IMG_2744Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JonB427/IMG_2745Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JonB427/IMG_2746Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JonB427/IMG_2747Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JonB427/IMG_2748Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/JonB427/IMG_2750Large.jpg
last one shows yoke beside where it would go over everything