Wiper don't always park ~ MOT fail!

[JumboBeef]

My Defender has just failed it's MOT on a couple of things.  One thing seems, well, odd.

The wipers don't always 'park' when you switch them off: they sometimes stop at odd points on the screen ~ you have to switch them off just at the right point so they stop where they should.  The MOT tester said they have to return to their park position when they are switched off otherwise it is a fail.

This seems odd because we have had this Defender since 2005 and it has been through three MOTs with us, with the wipers like this, and has always passed.

Is the MOT tester right?

Thanks!

(PS: he also failed it on the horn not working, but it clearly is and when I pointed this out to him, he agreed!)

[Range Rover Blues]

I think that's billy TBH but I'll ask.  Was there a fail code on the test sheet? our was advised on "rear bumper corner insecure", it's not a fail and the bumper is as insecure as it can be ie missing.

[V8MoneyPit]

I can't see anything in our MOT manual that says a fautly park switch should fail an MOT. But, to be fair, it is an old copy.

[JumboBeef]

Thanks for the replies.

The MOT failure sheet says:

Nearside Windscreen wiper not operating over a large enough area to give an adequate view (8.2.1c)

Offside Windscreen wiper not operating over a large enough area to give an adequate view (8.2.1c)

Offside Windscreen has a sticker or other obstruction encroaching by more than 10mm within zone 'A' (8.3.1b)

Nearside Windscreen has a sticker or other obstruction encroaching into the swept area by more than 40mm outside zone 'A' (8.3.1e)

Now, points one and two were due to the fact he tested the wipers by pressing the wash button, which gives a quick splash of washer on the windscreen and operates the wipers.  Because the glass was almost dry, the wipers (in typical Defender style) only drag themselves across about 70% of the screen.  I showed him how they work if you get the screen wet (as it would be if it  was raining) by using lots of washer and the wipers moved right across the screen. He agreed it the wipers would pass on that point (even though he had failed it on that point just an hour earlier).

The last two points he told me refered to the 'not parking' issue.  By the way, there are no stickers or anything else on the screen (apart from the road tax, and that is right in the corner out of the swept area) and no cracks or chips.

It just doesn't seem right to me..........

[waveydavey]

I would take it somewhere else; the fail will be on the national system so the next guy can check against that.

When it passes put in an appeal against to first guy and get the costs back.

[JumboBeef]

It did fail on other things which I agree on: corroded brake pipes for example. I have it booked into another garage to have those replaced: all pipes, £80 labour plus £20 parts if nothing else breaks while they do the job.  The MOT garage quoted me a minimum of £380 if nothing else breaks!

[V8MoneyPit]

That's crazy!

Failing it because the wiper *might* be obscuring the view means he would have to fail every single car on the basis the owner *might* fit a sticker in the wrong place  :lol:

I have just spoken to our local MOT station, who we know well, and he said it *cannot* be failed for the wipers not self parking.

In respect of the sweep of the wiper, it is open to interpretation and the tester may be within his rights to fail it even though the screen was nearly dry.... but, the wording is not well defined. 'Our mans' view was 65-70% or above is acceptable.

[Range Rover Blues]

I would take it somewhere else; the fail will be on the national system so the next guy can check against that.

When it passes put in an appeal against to first guy and get the costs back.

I'd report him to the ministry, that's ****.

The reason there is no code on the computer system to fail wipers that don't park is......

......it's not a failable item!

[solihull-mick]

As a Tester i can say there is no reason for rejection in the testers manual for wiper that wont park 

[JumboBeef]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I am going past the MOT garage on Monday, so I will call in to see them.  What should I say to the guy?  Should I ask to see where in his Big Book of MOTs it says fail for non-parking of wipers?

If it only failed on this one point, then I would appeal but as this was one of a number of points (and I agree with some of the other points), I'm not not too sure how to handle this.

Another thing he failed it one was one type has a cut on the side wall.  Yes, it has a small surface cut...but again that has been there since we bought this Landy and has been through three MOTs before with it, and passed.  Could I put my spare on (although it has a different tread pattern to the others) and take it to be re-MOTed without a spare.........?

Thanks again.

[muddydisco]

As a Tester i can say there is no reason for rejection in the testers manual for wiper that wont park 

If it parks across the screen there is reason for rejection :lol: As i found out when i did my refresher 2 weeks ago

[muddydisco]

I would take it somewhere else; the fail will be on the national system so the next guy can check against that.

When it passes put in an appeal against to first guy and get the costs back.

If you take it some where else it will just be tested as a new mot. Other garage's don't get to see the fail sheets on the system from previous tests

[JumboBeef]

It's a 1991 Defender.

As a Tester i can say there is no reason for rejection in the testers manual for wiper that wont park 

If it parks across the screen there is reason for rejection :lol: As i found out when i did my refresher 2 weeks ago

Are you saying the MOT tester was right then to fail it if the wipers don't always automatically park at the bottom of the screen? (You can, of course, switch the wipers off at the right time so they stop at their park position).

[muddydisco]

Are you saying the MOT tester was right then to fail it if the wipers don't always automatically park at the bottom of the screen? (You can, of course, switch the wipers off at the right time so they stop at their park position).
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Yes if the wipers park across the screen at time of test then it should fail because it is blocking the driver veiw. In all fairness we test the vehicle how it is.  We arn't going to be there messing about to get the wipers to park at a certain point. Because that is not how they should work


One question if you just brought the vehicle from  new is that how the wipers would operate

[ChrisV8]

 :lol:wonder what he would do with a Series One, cos you can get them with one wiper only, plus they don't park until you twiddle the knob to move the wiper out of the way.

Mind you my Grandson had an argument with his College lecturere about seat belts and the MOT, the lecturer was adamant every vehicle has to have seatbelts or no MOT, he argued pre64 don't need them as not built or designed for them !!

Grandson is going in with a mate in his 1950 Series One with no seatbelts and his current legal MOT !!!!!

[hobbit]

:lol:wonder what he would do with a Series One, cos you can get them with one wiper only, plus they don't park until you twiddle the knob to move the wiper out of the way.

Mind you my Grandson had an argument with his College lecturere about seat belts and the MOT, the lecturer was adamant every vehicle has to have seatbelts or no MOT, he argued pre64 don't need them as not built or designed for them !!

Grandson is going in with a mate in his 1950 Series One with no seatbelts and his current legal MOT !!!!!

He'll love the emissions test then, its on visible smoke only, no gas done at all :)

[MrTFWitt]

:lol:wonder what he would do with a Series One, cos you can get them with one wiper only, plus they don't park until you twiddle the knob to move the wiper out of the way.

Mind you my Grandson had an argument with his College lecturere about seat belts and the MOT, the lecturer was adamant every vehicle has to have seatbelts or no MOT, he argued pre64 don't need them as not built or designed for them !!

Grandson is going in with a mate in his 1950 Series One with no seatbelts and his current legal MOT !!!!!

An addendum to that is the requirement for rear seatbelts, these were only needed from 1986 onwards.
My 1986 SD1 has no rear belts, never has had and I bought it nearly new from a dealer.

[Range Rover Blues]

Which poses another question, how many MOT fail items actually apply to older cars like ours :-k

[dreadnought110]

This could open out to be one mother of a can of worms for a start wipers can't be failed as long as they park where they should ,if it means you have to turn them of yourself to get them there then who cares (pass and advise!) your cut in your tyre as long as it is not showing any cords then (pass and advise)and as for brake pipe's well unless you think that the pipes is corroded to 50 percent of the outer wall you can't fail it (oh and if they did a brake test then they had no reason to faiil your pipe's) sort of contradict's what they failed it on? after all it's down to individule tester's........ring the vosa helpline on the back of your certificate and ask advice??

[lambert]

i may be missing the point but if your wipers are designed to self park and don't why are you moaning when you are told to fix them?

[JumboBeef]

Thanks for the replies.

i may be missing the point but if your wipers are designed to self park and don't why are you moaning when you are told to fix them?

I have tried to fix them.....but really, after living with them for three years, they just don't bother me, and I just don't want to have to do some repairs unless I really have to.

[solihull-mick]

As a Tester i can say there is no reason for rejection in the testers manual for wiper that wont park 

If it parks across the screen there is reason for rejection :lol: As i found out when i did my refresher 2 weeks ago

As you say arron if the wiper can be switched off in the correct place then no fail, but if they only stop accross the screen and cannot be parked anywear else then yes fail will be issued,

[JumboBeef]

So.......was he WRONG for failing it on this 'non-park'?  I'm confused now.

He says the wipers MUST park when you switch them off otherwise it is a fail: is he right?

[Thrasher]

Sureley this depends on the definition of "switch off". If I switch off my wipers with the switch ... they switch off. If I simply remove the key and they are mid sweep - that's where they will stop  :shock: :?

[JumboBeef]

Is there anyone I can ring to ask about this?

[muddydisco]

End of the day we can't see how the wipers are parking   :roll:
    Just fix the problem job done  :lol:  Think the relay is inside the wiper motor  :?

[JumboBeef]

Just fix the problem job done  :lol:  Think the relay is inside the wiper motor  :?

Yes, I could fix it (by replacing the motor I think)..but why should I if it is not a fail point?  It doesn't cause me any problems and it has been like this for years.

I spoke to VOSA yesterday and they told me that non-parking is NOT a fail: it is not something which is tested.  They also told me that:

Offside Windscreen has a sticker or other obstruction encroaching by more than 10mm within zone 'A' (8.3.1b)

Nearside Windscreen has a sticker or other obstruction encroaching into the swept area by more than 40mm outside zone 'A' (8.3.1e)

....this is also wrong as you cannot fail on something which isn't wrong!

I currently have another garage looking at the other fail points (brake pipes mainly) to see just how bad they are.  I will be calling my local VOSA office this morning to talk to them about an appeal.

[V8MoneyPit]

Bottom line......

If they only park in a place where they obscure the view, they should fail.

If they can be manually parked in the correct place, it is not a fail.

Simple as that.

[muddydisco]

Well to appeal you have to pay the full test fee again £50  The vehicle is to be un-touched by another garage

[JumboBeef]

Well to appeal you have to pay the full test fee again £50  The vehicle is to be un-touched by another garage

I spoke with the Chief Engineer at my local VOSA office yesterday.  Yes, you have to pay the fee again (£52) but if they agree with the appeal when they retest it you get your fee back. However...............

As you say, the vehicle is to be untouched by anyone else before they see it..........but he couldn't give me a straight answer in a case like this where you agree with some of the fail points and disagree with others.  Take the tyre (it failed on cuts to the side wall, which are borderline).  I plan to change the tyre because it is getting low on tread anyway and so will need changing in the coming months, plus the cuts might be a failure anyway.

The VOSA man said I shouldn't change it before they see it because it was one of the fail points.......but also agreed it might fail on it (so I would lose my second £52)..........so I should change it if I wanted to..........but also said I shouldn't undertaken any work before they see it.........

 

I have already had the brake pipes replaced, because they were borderline..........and the VOSA man agreed that was the right thing to do (whilst also saying I shouldn't have any work carried out) 

They don't seem to have a system where you can appeal against certain failure points on your MOT but agree with other points.

By the way, the auto parking of wipers in not a testable item and so you cannot be failed on it: from the Chief Engineer at my local VOSA office.