Starting problems from cold.

[jkseries]

OK so the ice on the windscreen brought with it starting problems this morning.

I've always had trouble starting the disco but today it was even worse.

I've always had to leave it idling on the drive to warm up otherwise I suffer from a loss of power within the 1st 5 mins of driving.

I've replaced the glow plugs and seem to have power going to them.

My next thought was an air leak somewhere so I've checked all the hoses from the tank forwards and there doesn't seem to be any leaks of any kind.

I'm thinking lift pump but none of the symptoms I've got seem to tie up perfectly with anything else anyone has described.

I'm running on a 50/50 mix of diesel and WVO at the moment but still get the same symptoms when on straight diesel.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of where to look next?  Is it worth putting a new lift pump on? Because fueling seems to be fine when I get going I don't think it would be the fuel pump (but i may well be wrong).

Help please.  As the mornings are getting colder and I still need to get to work.

Any advice would be great.

J

EDIT: Sorry forgot to say it's a 300tdi auto. Thanks

[Disco Matt]

I'd try the fuel filter, then the lift pump. When my lift pump went the only time it was really noticeable was starting from cold and at tickover, more revs and it was just down on power. I didn't notice the loss of power until I put the new pump on, at which point it was noticeably quicker!

[BigA]

I would try the fuel filter too, when i ran on mixture of oil had many problems with the filter. Its a cheap and easy one to try first too.

Saying that, i have not run on oil for a year now, changed fuel filter at least twice since then, and the cold weather is already causing havoc starting in the morning  [-o<

[jkseries]

Forgot to say it's had a new fuel filter.

I ran though about 80l of 'fuel' and then changed it.

When I changed it the disco had been sat for about 12hrs and there was only a dribble of fuel in the bottom of the old filter.

Could this be pointing more at the lift pump?

J

[Disco Matt]

You could check the fuel sedimenter too - on the inside of the right hand chassis rail near the fuel tank IIRC. But this is sounding like air is getting in somewhere when the engine is off, most likely the lift pump.

[jkseries]

I wish I'd been more thorough in my original post.

Managed to find info about the sedimenter at the beginning of my troubles.  So i cleaned that out.

I remember seeing something about lift pumps to avoid.  I 'think' I need to be looking for a Delphi one. Is that right?. Lots of on line retailers don't list the make.  Is there a price difference?

Thanks for the help so far.  I don't think I've missed anything else out.

J

[Disco Matt]

I got mine from Paddock and I think it was Delphi. Has been on there for the best part of a year now with no problems, Paddock don't quote a brand on their site so it may be worth phoning the order in.

[dead camel]

i can supply a decent delphi or equiv in genuine from my plae of work pm me for details decent price too!!!

[jkseries]

Andy.  PM sent

[jkseries]

So I finally got round to fitting the new lift pump and...

It still wont start properly.

After running the engine for a few mins and then checking to see fuel was going through all right there was a large amount of pressure from the bleed screw on top of the filter?  Is this normal?

I thought the battery could just be low so while it was charging off came the air con pump so I could check the hoses right to the injector pump.  The pipes and the unions are all clear so i don't know where this build up of pressure is coming from.

There does seem to be a ticking noise coming from the top of the pump.  could it be ion the way out?  Is there any explanation for the high pressure?

An advice is gratefully received.  I'd quite like to sort this out before the mornings get too cold...

Thanks

J

[thermidorthelobster]

Is there an air mass flow meter on 300tdis?

[Paul]

EDIT: Sorry forgot to say it's a 300tdi auto. Thanks

I had this on a 300tdi auto and it turned out to be the pump timing, it was fine until it had a new cambelt fitted then I suffered poor starting when cold..

Worth a try and very simple to adjust, have a look HERE

[Budgie]

What are pipes on the fuel pickup & return like on top of the tank?
I noticed problems starting on my 300 TDi, the pipes looked OK but one had a small hole in it that was sucking air into the fuel line when the vehicle was left overnight.
Once you got it started and drove it then there were no starting problems, until you left it overnight or for a few hours.
Eventually, in my case, the hole in the fuel feed pipe got a bit larger and I could see fuel on the underside of the tank. Replaced the pick-up & sender unit in the tank and all was well again, started first turn of the key without the need for the heater plugs.  :D

[jkseries]

Brilliant guys thanks,

Not looking forward to having to buy a new injector pump.

I'm 'fairly' sure the pipes on the top of the tank are ok.  I did take the inspection plate off and have a look a while ago.

I was thinking it could be timing but obviously didn't do anything about it.

I'll keep on trying.

J

[wrecker]

one thing to check on these 300tdi,

stand at the drivers side,look near fuel filter,you will see some pipes going to and from it,plus others,some pipes run across each other,get a helper to hold the pipes apart and watch for fuel spitting out,when cold

had it on my mates 300tdi last week and he changed glow plugs,lift pump and all that then i done above and could see it clear as day only when the pipes where help apart,not when they were rubbing.

hope this helps

[Disco Matt]

Just a question, can the timing thing affect a manual 300 TDI as well? Mine is now a tad reluctant to fire up. Problem is, there are a number of possible causes. I've just had a new cam belt fitted but at the same time the weather has got colder, so I can't decide if it's timing, or a need for new glow plugs (114k on the originals)?

[extreme90]

incorrect timing will effect any engine 200 or 300tdi the gearbox is irrelivant to the starting of the engine

have you removed the fuel spill off banjo and checked the little filter inside it ?
these block and pressurise the return system

[Disco Matt]

It seems ok after idling for about a minute or so which would suggest heater plugs to me? The belt could easily be a co-incidence as it has got a lot colder here between taking the car in and getting it back.

[jkseries]

Yet more gems of information.

Thanks

Out with the spanners...

J

[extreme90]

It seems ok after idling for about a minute or so which would suggest heater plugs to me? The belt could easily be a co-incidence as it has got a lot colder here between taking the car in and getting it back.

was it fine before ?
if it was heater plugs it would try to only fire on like 2 or 3 cylinders and you can hear it as its trying to fire,
200 and 300tdi engines dont really need glow plugs to start, my challenge truck ( 200tdi) doesnt have them connected and i can go to it after a month of it not starting and it'll fire up at the flick of the key
dont be confused ( not insulting here but some people think it ) dont think the glow plugs run constant, there only there for initial start up to assist the engine

[Mr Alford]

think its time for a full overhaul, fuel filter, fuel filter tank just off the fuel tank could be clogged up as water does settle in there, that could be ur power loss early in the morning, might be worth testing your fuel pump too

[Disco Matt]

It seems ok after idling for about a minute or so which would suggest heater plugs to me? The belt could easily be a co-incidence as it has got a lot colder here between taking the car in and getting it back.

was it fine before ?
if it was heater plugs it would try to only fire on like 2 or 3 cylinders and you can hear it as its trying to fire,
200 and 300tdi engines dont really need glow plugs to start, my challenge truck ( 200tdi) doesnt have them connected and i can go to it after a month of it not starting and it'll fire up at the flick of the key
dont be confused ( not insulting here but some people think it ) dont think the glow plugs run constant, there only there for initial start up to assist the engine

Don't worry, I know they switch off after starting (or when the dash light goes out)  :lol:

I think I'm probably being a hypochondriac again. It fired up perfectly a couple of days ago after a brief churn and settled down to the usual rough cold TDI idle within 30 seconds or so, which is pretty much what it always does in cold weather. The cam belt just happened to be changed during the first cold snap of this winter, so it's most likely a co-incidence.

I may order new heater plugs anyway as they're £2.50 each or something equally daft.  :D

[muddyjames]

I know the answer. It's dead easy.

Its a 300tdi!!  :twisted: I am on to my second engine now and both dont like starting in the cold.  :doh: :-k

[jkseries]

I've still yet to get time to sort this out but...

Yesterday I drove it VERY hard.  Always using the kickdown. Foot flat pulling away from junctions.

My fuel economy was rubbish but it's started much better today.

It does make me think that there is (or was) a blockage somewhere.

Tomorrow's my day for the stripdown but if it starts easily when I leave work tonight I might not bother doing anything.

J

[muddyjames]

I am always driving mine hard to just make it go at a normal speed!!! :lol:

[jkseries]

Hi,

I thought it was about time I updated this.  After all the starting probems it turns out that that the problem seems to be with the fuel return.  To be more specific pressure in the fuel return pipe.

Everything is pointing toward the fuel tank breather pipe being blocked.  If I take the fuel cap off before starting first thing in the morning then it starts fine.  Also I've been able to start the car perfectly for the next few days and as soon as the starting gets sluggish again I just take off the fuel cap again before starting.

All's looking good now.

If only I could sort out my 'project' the fleet would be complete :)

J