What's he talking about...

[johnte]

Not a 4wd !! I think you'll find it is - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RESERVE-NOT-MET-SICK-OF-IT-4X4_W0QQitemZ330292505294QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item330292505294&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[Disco Matt]

Some people really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a vehicle!  :lol:

It will be useless in mud if you don't know how to drive it...

[Mark_Solesbury]

[Frankie-Boy]

 :shock: :shock: Blimey, he was a bit upset wasn't he?  :shock: :roll:

[jasonslaphead]

 :shock: i think he is just about to explode

[carbore]

This person is allowed to vote, makes you worry.

Also if he thinks a 4x4 is only a Defender type off road vehicle then is a 2x4 car actually a peice of wood?

[Mark Y]

Mark Solesbury, I like the cut of your gib,

[auf_wiedersehen_pet]

Unless you have an extra gear stick or switch to change from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive you DONT have a 4x4 but an ALL WHEEL DRIVE. which are USELESS in the mud..So if your car is ALL WHEEL DRIVE say so and don't describe it as 4x4 please..NO extra gear stick or switch to change from 2 to 4 wheel drive means no 4x4..only ALL WHEEL DRIVE..thank you

My 300TDi Disco has no "gear stick or switch to change from 2 to 4 wheel drive" so it's "USELESS in the mud"!!!!!

I don't think he knows what he's talking about!!

 :-k :-k :-k :-k

[freelanderpx54]

Yes it rrying that this person is allowed to vote, what is more worrying is that this person may be driving on a road near you :shock:

[lee celtic]

LAND ROVER THE BEST 2 BY 4 BY FAR   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Plank.......

[datalas]

I *think* he's trying to suggest that they don't have a central diff lock, if you read his reply to the question he got asked he is hinting at something along those lines, which of course means he's neither got a clue, nor can he express himself too well.

Never mind,  there's one born every minute

[Sider]

I don't know if I should own up, but.... I was the cheeky git that goaded him :oops: :oops: :oops:

Friend of ours pointed it out to me this morning, and I just couldn't resist the temptation.  [-X

Won't do it again, I promise. (I'll try not to, at least :roll:)

[Disco-Ron]

Whats worrying for me, is that he lives in Bournemouth, ie, not that far from me..... in fact, scarily close!!

[carracarra13]

 :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: and thats all Iv got to say about that ah and Ilike your style sider top marks m8 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Disco Matt]

Centre diff lock and selectable 4wd mean exactly the same thing in real terms, they're just different ways of achieving it. Both can get cross axled without axle diff lockers. I suppose on-road fuel consumption may be marginally lower with selectable 4wd and freewheeling hubs but I can't see any other benefit.

[carbore]

Hang on then what about a car whit traction control???? And by his logic if a car whit a spinning wheel is not a 4x4 then if you jack up a 4x4 so all the wheels are off the ground is it a 4x0 ?

and why is he so cross, does he see a "4x4 freelander and say oh look a 4x4 freelander that's rare, hang on its a bl*!$y all wheel drive and usless in the mud, why did they descibe it as a 4x4"

PS lots of tractors have 2wd and the are good in the mud, so are some ladies I saw on TV.

[discowoman]

can I post the replies I got from him? Mind you i think there would have to be a lot of editing involved ;)
I just hinted he might be better off with a nissan micra and driving gloves  :lol:
O and apparently HIS car has 4 diff locks  :-.

REPLY 1
u must be a [ed: naughty] because I am aware that not all land rover and jeeps are crap, that's why I put up what I did...BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE...And I know the difference thank you..As for my driving skill they have nothing to do with a car that wont go threw the mud..So get a grip MR KNOW ALL IT and learn to read properly.

REPLY 2
Thanks for the abuse ([ed: naughty]!)...The micra and leather gloves dream may be something you fantasize about in private but please don't include me your sordid dreams ..(YUK PERV!!)As for another idiot like you who thinks it must be because I cant drive or I don't know what a locking diff is.one locking diff does not make a 4x4.But something that is more likely to get stuck..Oh am I wrong when I say my other 4x4's have FOUR locking diffs..Or have you got to get a mag or check it on the net befor you find out ....Why to idots like you think I,m putting down every landy jeep isuzi ect...I am not ..just the ones pretending.

[Disco-Ron]

4 lockers......LOL... i wonder where the fourth one is.... (mens privates..LOL)

I love the modern world, so many people can't spell, or use the wrong word in the wrong place, i don't pretend to be brilliant at English, but using the word 'threw' instead of 'through' is a bit of a no-brainer.....LOL.....

[carbore]

What he needs to know

"Dear sir, you really need to try one of these AWD cars in the mud as...not that you may be surprised, but you may get stuck. Hopefully a long way away from any form of internet access and ideally before you can reproduce and pass on your DNA"

[Disco-Ron]

Surprise surprise,..... the item is no longer available..... i suspect he got fed up with all the sensible emails...LOL!!!

Shame, cos you could look back through his recent purchases and see what tat he'd been buying......

[johnte]

Now back on again..   :lol:

[crazymac]

Now back on again..   :lol:

A link please?? Want to ask him a question!!

[MudPlugger]

Ermmmm I may sound like a right thick git here as I seem to be confused...isn't an AWD the same thing as a 4x4? just without the difflock?

I'm confused about it all as my old Series 3 was 2WD and 4WD, had tranny box but no locker...the Disco is permanent 4WD (AWD?) with hi-lo and also lockers...so what on earth is the difference?????

[Onan The Barbarian]

Now back on again..   :lol:

A link please?? Want to ask him a question!!

Here ya go, Mate... fill yer boots... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RESERVE-NOT-MET-SICK-OF-IT-4x4-BOLT-99p-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ330292931995QQihZ014QQcategoryZ29748QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[crazymac]

I reckon that he has been to see a two wheel drive series landy!!

They are quite rare but they did make some.

[muddyjames]

if it is a rare one he has found then maybe it is a bargain to be had and do up and sell to a museum? :lol:

I thought a 4x4 was an AWD???  :-k

[datalas]

if it is a rare one he has found then maybe it is a bargain to be had and do up and sell to a museum? :lol:

I thought a 4x4 was an AWD???  :-k

Depends how many wheels you've got I suppose

[Tommo]

All wheel drive is often a term used for vehicles equipped with limited slip diffs. Subaru calls its 4x4 vehicles with limited slip diffs AWD.

[crazymac]

If you go to google answers thing, it says that AWD vehicles don't have a transfer box!

So basically a Freelander is AWD but all other Landrover products are 4x4!!

I've just had a bit of a dialogue with him.......First I challenged him about my Discovery

Dear smellybint,

I'm confused.
Whats the difference between AWD and 4 wheel drive? You are on about a 4x4 MUST have a lever or switch to change from 2 wheel to 4 wheel drive, does that mean my Discovery which does not have this lever is an AWD? not a 4x4?

Go on, I'm intrigued.


- welshmac
To which he replied

Dear welshmac,

Sorry you have an AWD..


- smellybint
I then said
Dear smellybint,

You recently replied to me about my "AWD" Discovery "Dear welshmac,Sorry you have an AWD..
- smellybint"
An AWD vehicle can send the power to EITHER front or rear. by adding a transfer box you give the capability of power to front AND rear at the same time, By adding the DIFFLOCK you then ensure all the power goes equally to all wheels.

Get your facts right!!
- welshmac
He replied (I'm having fun now by the way!!)

Dear welshmac,

read what a farmer and rally driver sent me. Yes I don't know all the technical stuff but spending a lot of time everyday in a 4x4..I have tried a few and in my world of muddy fields the AWDs are rubbish..So even if I don't know all the technical stuff I still know I want more honest advertising so I don't waist my time being tricked into buying a AWD..
- smellybint

To which I said.......

Dear smellybint,

Me again!!

What AWD Landy did you go to see? The only Landy that could be considered as an AWD is the Freelander but that is VERY capable off road! Believe me I've used one in anger!! My Discovery is most definately a FOUR wheel drive. It has permanent four wheel drive with a transfer case which gives me a choice of LOW or HIGH ratio 4x4. In addition to this it has a centre differential lock which gives me power equally to all 4 wheels. I have NO problems in mud or any other off road situation. If you have problems its probably down to your driving!
- welshmac
So he said...........

Dear welshmac,

So you have a switch or stick to choose from two wheel to four...Which is what I said a in the first place...Another pointless argument..
- smellybint

To which I have sent him 2 replies

1. In my 1st email I said I had a Discovery! YOU said I had an AWD vehicle! I KNOW what I have, you THINK you know all about these things!! You don't!!  The only Landrover product these days that does not have a lever or switch to transfer ratios is the Freelander, therefore they are ALL 4x4 vehicles. There was also a VERY small run of series Landrovers done (I think) for the Dutch army that were only 2 wheel drive (I.E. no transfer box!!) I am beginning to doubt you even went to see a Landrover!!
2. (the afterthoughts!) And another thing!
This "lever" that I have transfers my drive from LOW ratio 4x4 to HIGH ratio 4x4 NOT between 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive!!
You are confusing yourself because you know nothing about these things, go and learn then spout, not before!!
DAMN this is fun!!

[datalas]

Let's perhaps set matters straight ..

The transfer box is to all intents and purposes just another gearbox atop the regular one which allows to go from "high ratio" to "low ratio" or "fast" and "slow".  A vehicle no more needs a transfer box to be four wheel drive than it needs a better radio.

The earlier land rovers, i.e. the series motors weren't permanent 4 wheel drive, although you could select 4wd by means of a nice little button in the cab, coincidently putting the transfer box into low range would also force you to go into 4wd but this is more a quirk of the land rover in particular than it is to do with the concepts.

There were a few 2wd land rovers produced, but these are incredibly rare.  If he's managed to pick one of those up then I would advise he contact Gaydon as they don't have one in their collection IIRC.

The Defender, Discovery and Range Rover were all permanent 4wd and provide a center differential which will send power equally to the front and rear under normal conditions.  It is a torque balancing differential without much bias which means that whilst it will send more "power" to the wheels which move most freely, it will still send ~ 50% to front and rear in most circumstances.   The central diff lock will stop the biassing and send 50% front and 50% back regardless, meaning if you have one wheel off the floor, power is still applied to the other axle. 

This is analagous to the series motors in 4wd, since they naturally spat 50% out of either end not having a center diff.  Hence the reason why they were 2wd most of the time, you end up building up tension in one of the axles usually when driving on roads as the front and rear do tend to travel different distances.

Each axle also has a differential in it, as did the series motors.  These aren't usually lockable as this makes going round corners interesting.   The inside set of wheels doesn't travel as far as the outside set.  These can be locked with a variety of aftermarket products and techniques but in a standard configuration cannot.

To the best of my knowledge this is also true of the D2+, Freelander and later Range Rovers although the issue becomes blurred by the lack of a centre diff lock on some D2s (IIRC it was an optional extra)

From Wikipedia ...

The term four-wheel drive describes truck-like vehicles that require the driver to manually switch between two-wheel drive mode for streets and four-wheel drive mode for low traction conditions such as ice, mud, snow, slippery surfaces, or loose gravel.

All-wheel drive (AWD) is often used to describe a "full time" 4WD that may be used on dry pavement without destroying the drivetrain, although the term may be abused when marketing a vehicle. AWD can be used on dry pavement because it employs a center differential, which allows each tire to rotate at a different speed. ("Full-Time" 4WD can be disengaged and the center differential can be locked, essentially turning it into regular 4WD. On the other hand, AWD cannot be disengaged and the center differential cannot be locked.) This eliminates driveline binding, wheel hop, and other driveline issues associated with the use of 4WD on dry pavement. With vehicles with more than four wheels, AWD means all wheels drive the vehicle, to varying degrees of engagement, while 4WD means only four of the wheels drive the vehicle continuously.

Which would mean that he is correct and that a Discovery is not, inherently a 4wd, it is possibly an AWD however, with the center diff lock fitted it's more a "full time 4wd" by that definition.  If he's purchased a Freelander or D2 without the difflock then he's possibly got a point in that it's an AWD and you cannot force both the front and the rear to spin.  If he's got either of these though, you also get into the argument of how ETC affects matters as this alters the torque biassing by applying friction at all four of the wheels, so, whilst none of the diffs are locked power is distributed as if they semi were and you get something approaching 3 limited slip diffs.

Although, he does perhaps indicate that he's got perhaps less than a full understanding of the problem than he might by insisting that things can and should have four differentials in them.  Since, unless you were planning on driving the spare I'm not sure what it would gain you.  Then again, other than a highspeed pottery wheel, I'm not sure what driving the spare would gain you.

Then again, what do I know ?