wierd electrics

[muddyjames]

Lastnight a wierd thing happened. I turned off the tv and came to my pc. I had shut down the radio window about 2 hours before hand but it was stil running. Then I was typng something on Facebook and all the power to all my sockets died. Only the sockets nothing else except the fridge was still working!

I looked at the trip switches and they were all set as normal.

After chatting to Al I turned off all sockets in the house and then tried the test button on the trip and nothing, so I manualy flicked the trip down for the socket circuit. Flicked it back up and all is working again. Tried the test button and it tripped off.

So why didnt the trip flick down and what tripped the 32amp circuit? The only things on were fridge freezer, pc and monitor, dehuimidifier in the caravan and maybe my lodgers pc. So nothing drawing a huge current?  ??? ??? ??? Will my house go up in flames???

The boiler also went off as well.

[discowoman]

so glad someone else had probelms last night.. we were watching 6th sense, when all 4 walls lights turned off and then came on 1 by 1 - now they are all on 1 switch and are in groups of 2's so cant understand how they did that!
Very spooky..

[muddyjames]

well it has just tripped again and I think I have narrowed it down to the caravan.

I turned the caravan off unplugged dehumidifier in it, reset trip, worked ok till I turned caravan back on then it tripped again. So who knows what it could be as I would have thought if it is the caravan it would trip it's own fuse box???

Puzzled now.

[muddyjames]

just took the plug out the outside socket and the plug was full of water. That will be the problem then!  [-X

[SimonHarwood]

just took the plug out the outside socket and the plug was full of water. That will be the problem then!  [-X

Sounds as if it was the RCD "Residual Current Device" (aka RCCB "Residual Current Circuit Breaker") that tripped, not the MCB "Miniature Circuit Breaker". Each MCB protects one circuit. The RCD protects several circuits. The symptoms described in your original post indicate that the RCD started to trip out but failed to because it was stuck.

MCBs trip out if the circuit that they protect is overloaded or if there is a surge on the circuit.

RCDs trip out if there is current leaking to earth from either phase/line ("live" in laymans terms) or neutral to earth greater than the trip current (maximum of 30mA for any socket circuit). If you press the "Test" button on an RCD and it does not trip then it MUST be replaced as faulty. It may just have been stuck from never being tested - but even that means that you cannot rely on it. You should test your RCD(s) at least once every three months. It my have a mechanical fault that means that it seems to work and test OK if it has recently been mechanically operated but you cannot be sure. (The "Test" button produces an imbalance in the phase and neutral currents to simulate an earth fault.)

Simon..
(NICEIC Approved Contractor)

[muddyjames]

the test button didnt trip after the power had gone off. Once it was reset so everything was working then the test button worked fine then.

It was an individual circuit trip that went not the main one for all the electrics.

[SimonHarwood]

the test button didnt trip after the power had gone off. Once it was reset so everything was working then the test button worked fine then.

It was an individual circuit trip that went not the main one for all the electrics.

Is the module an RCBO (combination of MCB and RCD)? MCBs don't have test buttons.
In any case, if the lever was staying in the ON position under fault conditions until you had manually actuated it then you should consider the device to be faulty and have it replaced. You cannot be too careful where electricity is concerned.

Simon..

[muddyjames]

I have no idea mate what it is. It has 1 red main lever and lots of little levers and under the socket lever it had a test button.

The button droped a bit but not to the very bottom which is why I was first confused.

I think I need a proffesional leccy in to do me a new wire outside to me shed and another rcd and anew fuse box. Grr.

[Lyndsey731]

Sounds like you have RCBO's as Simon said. Certain trips of this type need to be fully pushed down before lifted back up.

Gav

[muddyjames]

so mine might not be faulty then ?  :-k

[Lyndsey731]

Ok a few question

What make is the board?
how many of the trips have buttons underneath?
does the button say "Test" on it?

Gav

[muddyjames]

only make I can see is Qwikline

1 has a button underneath (socket circuit)

yes it says test

[Lyndsey731]

Qwickline is made by Square D a very reputable make.

The device you have is an RCBO and appears to be working normally.

It seems strange that it's the only one in the board though, do you have an electric shower or cooker or another socket circuit?

Gav

[muddyjames]

no shower is run off the boiler, I have a gas cooker but there is a socket for wiring a leccy one into it and all the sockets in all the house went off except for the fridge freezer which carried on working so that must be on another circuit. The boiler went out though and seems strange why that would be on a socket circuit.  :-k

[Lyndsey731]

Theres nothing unusual about the boiler on with the sockets it doesn't pull any load, only a small pump and timeclock.

It doesn't sound to me like you have too much if anything to worry about.

If you are having electrics installed to the garage it will need planning permission under Part P of the building regs, honestly! If you are having it done by a reputable NIC electrician he will sort it all out for you retrospectively when he issues the completion certificate (i am assuming he will be connecting directly into the board). He will also be responsible for providing a periodic inspection report on the existing installation which should put your mind at rest as to it's condition.

Gav

[muddyjames]

It is actually going to my shed not a garage. The shed did have leccy going to it when I moved in but I moved the shed and since then moved the shed back to where it was.  :doh: I dont need planning permission for that do I? I only want to run my caravan off it for charging the battery and plugging in my lawn mower instead of having plugged in inside with the door open then the cuttings blowing inside!!

[Lyndsey731]

If you were doing things properly you need to go through building control, have a look at the attached, scroll down to the bottom and look at the Part P requirements, you might be surprised to see what you are actually by law allowed to do.

http://www.niceic.com//en/householder/section.asp?SECTION=12

Whether you choose to adhere to these regs is down to you, problems can arise if something goes wrong or if you try to sale the property, as a proffesional I can only advise you of the requirements and give you an idea of the penalties.

There was a case local to us where Bath and North East Somerset took a plumber to court for installing an electric shower, he was fined approx £1000.00 for being unqualified another £1000.00 for not informing the council he was going to carryout the works and additional costs for court fees.

As I said earlier if you use an NICEIC spark this will all be taken care of by them.

Gav