The Mysterious Forecourt Penny

[mike142sl]

Some time ago we were discussing the mysterious penny that can be added to your bill after you have filled up at the pump, especially when you have been really carefull to put a specific amount in like £20. Well I have been speaking to someone who used to work on the pumps that petrol stations use and he told me

There is a sensor about half way up the nozzle that guages how much fuel passes over it and into your car, and thus how much you have used. when you have hit your nice round £20, YOU NEED TO SHAKE THE NOZZLE OUT into your car - because there are always a few drops left in the nozzle tip. so if you dont shake it out and just lift the nozzle straight back to the pump, then these drips go back down the nozzle, over the sensor and it reads it and adds a couple of pence on.

and before you ask, no they cannot have sensors that only read one way as there is not supposed to be anything travelling up the other way, anyhow.

Seems to make sense as I always tip the pump handle before replacing it and have never had the mysterious penny added.

Just though you might be interested.

[Disco-Ron]

So thet're charging for the same fuel twice....... nice idea, i wonder how much revenue they get simply from a few drops of fuel charged double, and even then not taken by the customer, so i guess they get another charge when the next customer takes it.... [-X

[Disco Matt]

That would explain it - I've never had it happen and I always give the nozzle a good rattle around before putting it back. Mainly to avoid ending up with diesel dripping down the side of the truck!

[V8MoneyPit]

So thet're charging for the same fuel twice....... nice idea, i wonder how much revenue they get simply from a few drops of fuel charged double, and even then not taken by the customer, so i guess they get another charge when the next customer takes it.... [-X

I find it hard to believe it's designed with the sole intention of defrauding the public! It's just a quirk of the design that would cost a fortune to correct. And that cost would have to be passed on the the customer anyway.

[Disco-Ron]

True... however, all these modern cars with computers that tell you what your instant mpg is, i believe work on the flow rates through the supply and return pipes to the engine/tank....... so they must flow one way only.... how come they can't use something similar.....

[thermidorthelobster]

My local garage has about 8 pumps on the go at any given time.  Assuming one in five users are paying a penny over, and the pumps are used about 8 times an hour on average, that's:  13p per hour!  Thieving swine!

On a car it's a different pipe for supply and return.  So one sensor only detects fuel going one way.  The point about the pump is that it's fuel dripping back in.  Not sure there's much they can do about that.

[Range Rover Blues]

You think that's bad? in the USA they have vapour recovery nozzles that suck up the smeely fumes coming out of you tankt o make way for all that lovely tax you've just bought.  They then condense it and put it back intot heir underground tanks, and sell it back to you.

So not only arre they charging you for it twice but actually sucking it back out of your car :P

[boogieman]

No, no .............. it was all explained about the mysterious penny on Not the Nine O'clock News some years ago !

 The clip showed a motorist filling up with petrol & edging the dial painstakingly slowly towards the rounded £ mark he wished to stop at. Then with a very self-satisfied smile on his face, he very careful placed the nozzle back on the pump.

 The camera then switched into the cashier, who tapped a button on the console, and the extra 1p popped up on the pump display - much to the annoyance of the customer  :lol:

 (tried to find the clip but unfortunately I couldn't)

 So there you have it !!!  :lol: :shock:

[POTASH]

i always notice the price starts going round before the fuel starts coming out the nozzle

[mike142sl]

 Thieving swine!

I think the point is it's the motorist that is actually leaving it there rather than the garage taking it. Many more people are so slack they leave quite a bit more than a pennies worth on the floor as well.

[Suvvey]

Some time ago we were discussing the mysterious penny that can be added to your bill after you have filled up at the pump, especially when you have been really carefull to put a specific amount in like £20. Well I have been speaking to someone who used to work on the pumps that petrol stations use and he told me

There is a sensor about half way up the nozzle that guages how much fuel passes over it and into your car, and thus how much you have used. when you have hit your nice round £20, YOU NEED TO SHAKE THE NOZZLE OUT into your car - because there are always a few drops left in the nozzle tip. so if you dont shake it out and just lift the nozzle straight back to the pump, then these drips go back down the nozzle, over the sensor and it reads it and adds a couple of pence on.

and before you ask, no they cannot have sensors that only read one way as there is not supposed to be anything travelling up the other way, anyhow.

Seems to make sense as I always tip the pump handle before replacing it and have never had the mysterious penny added.

Just though you might be interested.

I'm sorry but your friend was either taking the preverbial or is full of bull excrement  [-X

I used to manage a few service stations and between the 6 of them we managed to cover most of the popular makes of pump. No nozzle I ever saw or have heard of since has any metering sensor in it. They all just screw into the pipe with a 'break-away' union and no wires are present. The only sensor in the nozzle is the overfill cut off and is usually in the smaller tube at the top of the larger dispensing tube. This is a mechanical device that cuts the fuel off at the nozzle.

All the metering is done at the pump end. The 'Mysterious Forecourt Penny' is actually just the pump rounding up what you have actually had. For instance if you actually had used £20.006 (point six of a pence over £20) it will round it up to £20.01 when you replace the nozzle in it's cradle telling it that you have finished. The meters on these pumps are extremely accurate (far more accurate than the display) as they have to account for many thousands of litres of fuel a day all dispensed in relatively small amounts. If you were not charged that penny everyone would try to get that extra .9p :roll:

Also with the cost of fuel nowadays (yes I know it has gone down a bit) that .6 of a pence comes around far quicker than it used to

There does seem to be some kind of myth that you can get the fuel out of the pipe after you release the trigger as I have watched hundreds of eejits carefully lifting the hose at one end and working it up to the nozzle :doh:

However there is some truth in your friends theory. There does tend to be some remnants left in the nozzle spout itself so a good shake before removing will save you a penny or 2 and splashing fuel all over your shoes. There have been cases of guys going around closed stations at night by bike and emptying the dregs into a can. If you cover enough stations you could well fill a 5lt can in a night or 2 ;)

[diggerdog36]

No nozzle I ever saw or have heard of since has any metering sensor in it. They all just screw into the pipe with a 'break-away' union and no wires are present. The only sensor in the nozzle is the overfill cut off and is usually in the smaller tube at the top of the larger dispensing tube. This is a mechanical device that cuts the fuel off at the nozzle.

All the metering is done at the pump end. The 'Mysterious Forecourt Penny' is actually just the pump rounding up what you have actually had. For instance if you actually had used £20.006 (point six of a pence over £20) it will round it up to £20.01 when you replace the nozzle in it's cradle telling it that you have finished. The meters on these pumps are extremely accurate (far more accurate than the display) as they have to account for many thousands of litres of fuel a day all dispensed in relatively small amounts. If you were not charged that penny everyone would try to get that extra .9p :roll:

Sounds a hell of a lot more realistic.  How often are pumps tested for their correct measuring. ie, could it be possible for pumps to give less fuel than they say.

[Llanigraham]

The Morrisons in Newtown, Powys seems to be done every week!!

[Suvvey]

They should be calibrated regularly. How often this happens can vary depending on the type of station. For instance the large chain owned sites (including their franchised ones) are usually quite good at this, a small local dealer that buys his fuel in from the large companies probably only gets them checked when the trading standards come around and do it for him (usually at least once a year, often more).

We used to test our own pumps with equipment calibrated by trading standards every month as well as being checked by the area manager once a quarter and of course the visits from trading standards. Any adjustment to the pumps calibration had to be done by credited engineers (such as Gilbarco) in the presence of Trading Standards who would then fit a wire and soldered seal (like you used to get on your 'leccy meter) to ensure you didn't wind it back up a few notches when the left :lol: Although any long term discrepency would also probably show up on the 'Tank report' that is regularly scrutinised by Trading standards and the Fire/Petroleum Officer.

[Suvvey]

Also there is a mechanical meter in litres on each pump. This read had to be collected at the close of each day (or before you started a new one) and this was then compared against what the electronic meter has passed on to the till. Any descrepency here (to within a fraction of a percent but can't remember exactly what now) would prevent the 'Daily Sales Report' being accepted by the Head Office. To be able to 'commit' this would require a phone call to explain the problem and the margin of error lifted at their end. The offending pump would then have to be shut untill the engineer could come to check/callibrate it.

Infact, thinking about it, a large chunk of my day used to be taken up just checking by one means or another that we weren't ripping people off or giving the stuff away (I think it was the latter that compelled the company to be so thorough though :roll:)