A-FRAME THROUGH THE DARTFORD TUNNEL

[mr freebie]

Hi, just a quick question, will i be able to use my a-frame to tow a car through the dartford tunnel, i just want to make sure before i go, im pretty sure that its just classed as a trailer but i dont want any agro when i get there, im collecting a v8 rrc and the tow vehicle is a tdi rrc, thanks for any help, cheers.

[oldskool-paul]

i bet its not the last time i tow this V8, is it phil  :lol:

[mr freebie]

probably not if you help me fit it. :clap:

[winchman]

Legally no
Illegally yes but you may get caught and can get done.
The Legal bit states "Aframes can be used for revovering a stranded vehicle to a place of safety", then it adds a definition IE on a bend to a near by lay by.
They are allowed so professional recovery people can just shift it then do a propper lift later.
Yes I know people have towed them hundreds of miles in the past me included, but we where just lucky.
I have looked at this in depth in the past and there is no way around it.
Just going to the shed to get my tin hat on for all the replys telling me you can because, please quote the legal chapter and verse when replying  ( as you wont find it) :lol:

[winchman]

i towed an sj on a towing dolly and it was classed as a trailor so a afram should be the same

A towing dolly has wheels so its not an A frame an A frame has no wheels.
For the vehicle to become a trailer it has to comply with the trailer regs which it wont ( braking efficiency is a problem for starters)

[Frankie-Boy]

By using an A frame you are effectively converting the towed vehicle into a trailer, now trailers have to be below 750kg otherwise they need brakes so unless you can figure a way of making the "trailer" brakes work, you are technically towing illegally, sorry.

[Nick4X4]

look here about A frames  ;)

http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm

[JumboBeef]

So all those motorhomes towing small cars behind them are illegal then?   Interesting :-k

[discowoman]

So all those motorhomes towing small cars behind them are illegal then?   Interesting :-k

NO - as they are below the 750kg limit (fiat 126 and cincequento thingies) also a few companies do a brake hook up conversion (read camping and caravanning - they advertise in the back)

[JumboBeef]

Ah, but Smart cars are too heavy though, aren't they?

[Disco Matt]

I think (not 100% sure) that the only cars light enough to tow legally behind a motorhome are really tiny ones (smaller than the Cinquecento).

I have seen a kit advertised that equips a car with remotely controllable brakes, so when the towing vehicle brakes the car brakes will also be activated. However, there still seems to be some debate about legality. Bear in mind that you cannot reverse a vehicle with an A frame as the wheels will tend to slew to one side.

[ChrisV8]

The only car I think you can legally tow behind a car/van/LR/motorhome is an Axiom a tiny 500cc French cycle car so light two can just about pick it up !!!!!

I have an A frame but it is not legal to use as I am not a garge / recovery Company. Loads of people use them but you are absolutely stuffed if stopped by the Plod. Quite a number of motor homes have found that out on the M6 this year !!! [-X [-X

[Gordo]

It's the trailer weight thing that's the problem.

If your trailer is over 750Kg you need the "+E" bit on your licence too.

Technically the car-behind-motorhome towing isn't legal.

You could tow it with a rope though :)

[V8MoneyPit]

So all those motorhomes towing small cars behind them are illegal then?   Interesting :-k

NO - as they are below the 750kg limit (fiat 126 and cincequento thingies) also a few companies do a brake hook up conversion (read camping and caravanning - they advertise in the back)

But that's the gross weight. The curb weight of a Cinquecento is just under 730Kgs. The Gross weight must be way over 750Kgs.

[winchman]

look here about A frames  ;)

http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm

Heres all the facts from the link and it is correct as I see it from when I look at this in depth
I have a motor home and want to tow a Fiat Seicento behind it using an A-frame. This car has a kerb weight under 750 kg so am I legal with this outfit? Sorry no is the answer. The law regards this as an unbraked trailer and you are allowed to tow up to 750 kg Gross Trailer Weight, not a car’s kerb weight. The figure you have to use is the car’s Gross Vehicle Weight or Maximum Permitted Weight. This is usually at least 300 - 400 kg more than the kerb weight. We have no knowledge of any car sold in the UK that has a GVW under 750 kg. The only vehicle we know that is completely legal to tow with an A-frame is the French Aixam small "car". This is a full four seater and details can be obtained from Aixam UK on 01926 886100. An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. Transporting a car is, therefore, illegal. A-frames may be offered with a braking system that applies the car's brakes. These do not conform to the law as the car then becomes a "braked trailer" and has to conform to European Directives contained within the Construction and Use Regulations. It does not conform to the European Directive 71/320/EEC and amendments regarding braking requirements in any way. The use of this A-frame for transportation is illegal. It is still OK for use to recover a vehicle to a place of safety.

So however you dress it up, if its a trailer the brakes wont conform, When calculating the braking forces Plod may well see it as a car, then the brakes wont work to the designed efficiency.
Just buy a trailer . I would alos add plod has been out side the auctions recently stopping people A framing stuff home

[winchman]

So all those motorhomes towing small cars behind them are illegal then?   Interesting :-k

NO - as they are below the 750kg limit (fiat 126 and cincequento thingies) also a few companies do a brake hook up conversion (read camping and caravanning - they advertise in the back)

Sorry the car then becomes a trailer and if it has brakes they must work at the correct designed efficiency regardless of weight

[mr freebie]

thanks very much fo the replys, i've been convinced so i've arranged to borrow a large trailer, cant be doing with the worry or the agro, you know the plod aint got anything better to do than bug the motorist, cheers all.

[hobbit]

You could try A-frame with a driver behind the wheel of the towed car, as that would circumvent the braking problem

[V8MoneyPit]

You could try A-frame with a driver behind the wheel of the towed car, as that would circumvent the braking problem

Hmmm... not sure about that either. If (and I use it as a big 'if') an A frame drawn car is defined as a trailer, I don't think you are meant to have passengers in a trailer!

As the man says...... use a car transporter. It's a lot safer all round anyway. That's why the laws exist limiting the use of A-frames. A trailer is designed to be towed. A car isn't.

[Range Rover Blues]

So all those motorhomes towing small cars behind them are illegal then?   Interesting :-k

Yes they are.  The ONLY way round the law is if the towed car has a MAM below 750kg, not unladen weight.  You cannot use the car's service brakes as they don't meet the C&U regs for trailer brakes, not least because they can't auto reverse.

The law also states that if the car has any wheels on the road it must be taxed, MOT'd and insured, so towing dollys are also illegal unless they have brakes on them like the AA ones and the car being recovered was legal before it broke down.

If in doubt the only safe answer is a trailer.