parent spots in carparks

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

In a society where we are now all equal due to diversity and 'Human Rights', why is there the need for any segregation?
Withdraw all 'rights' to seperate parking areas. This would mean everyone is equal, but would create chaos and disorder, which means I would be in work for longer! Yay!

In all seriousnessnessness, I can say that I once witnessed a miracle .
I was on foot patrol and watched as a chap aged in his mid 30's parked in a disabled bay across the road from a newsagents, RAN across the road, came out clutching a packet of fags and started to run across to his car.
He then saw me and suddenly started to limp. I got to the car before him, watching his limp get progressivley worse to the point where he was dragging his leg like Igor from a Frankenstein movie.
He then began to plead with me not to give a ticket as he was genuinely disabled and that it was intermittent seizure of the leg muscles, and it wasn't pleasant and how would I like it, living on disability benefits, not being able to feed his family properly blah blah blah.

I looked at his blue badge and saw that it showed a gret haired old lady in her 80's.

Did he get a ticket?

No.

He got nicked for theft.
He was able to walk properley to the Nick though. Does that make me a wonder healer? :-k

[mike142sl]

And yes, at the age of 22 I do have the right to comment on parenting skills.

At 22 I had two very definite theories about bringing up children, but I had no children.
Now I have two children, and NO theories!

Your time will come Chris!

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

my kids always did as they were told when they were younger. When I told them to go and stand at the front of the line in a shop and wail, thus making people move away, they would. It worked a treat in resturants as well. Only joking!

Kids should never be looked upon as burden. My eldest son had his first scalectrix set at 1 month, and his first radio controlled car at 1 year.
My daughter had a 1/24 scale Airfix Mustang hanging above her bed when she was young, instead of a whirly pink fluffy mobile thing.
All three now know how to use spanners, screwdrivers etc.
They all grew up into well balanced teenagers with a healthy respect for their elders,and were taught about good manners and etiquette as we used to take them with us to the pub and other places. 
They all grew up with a good understanding about humanity, as we took them to places like Dachau and Oradour Sur Glane, so they could see history as opposed to read about it in a sterile way.

It all comes down to the parents, as kids will learn by example.
I see it time and time again. I pick up some drunk yoblet, take them home to the parents and most of the time am met with indifference. And that isn't just from supposed crap families from 'sink' estates either. Some of the worst offenders come from well healed backgrounds.

Here is a suggestion. If you don't want all the aggro of supermarkets and all the parking issues, screaming brats, homicidal old folk armed with trollies, indifferent attitudes from staff and other shoppers, use your local small butchers, greengrocers, farm shops etc etc.
The quality of product will be better, and you will helping to support local businesses, local communities and not putting your money in the hands of some big company!

[crazymac]

And yes, at the age of 22 I do have the right to comment on parenting skills.

No you don't! Until you have experience of a subject then I beg to differ, this goes for any subject, not just kids.

Are you honestly going to tell me if you saw a group of kids running riot and causing damage you wouldn't try and resolve the situation? - I beg to differ if thats the case.

Of course some people would not step in, but that is not to do with parenting skills and more to do with self preservation! With the propensity for violence from some groups of kids then reality must kick in sometimes! If there are parents in among them then it is the parents job, by all means try to have a quiet word with the parents but not to tell them how to do it, simply point out how the behaviour is effecting you should suffice. Very rarely will you get groups of kids running riot with parents in tow!!  

Commenting that Im 'barely a kid' [Edited] I have been working since I was 16 and to be fair probably have alot more life experience than the vast majority of people my age.

Just because you have worked from 16 does not make you a mature and sensible adult, and your attitude on this subject suggests otherwise!! Im assuming that you are in outdoor education from your comments? So yes, in some people that does give them a bit of insight into how kids tick, but from my many years in that industry I know that the environments are not interchangeable! In an outdoor environment you are Uniquely placed to influence a childs behaviour! there are several reasons for this including the "Instructor client" relationship, the kids generally WANT to be there, you are doing something "cool". Personally in my experience the outdoor instructor that "puffs his chest and claims to be the expert" is the one that the kids think is a [ed: naughty]!

My issue with the spaces is exactly that. You say its the practicality- if they didn't have kids there would be no issue- hence it is self inflicted, so why should they get special privileges?- .

I've covered that one, its to help prevent damage to YOUR car!!

Don't take them shopping? Parking problem solved and it means others don't have to put up with them.

And therefore the emerging society of potential young adults don't learn important socialising lessons or how to budget a weekly shop so leaving society down the toilet in years to come!!

And no, there is no way I would ever have kids, ecologically there is no worse thing for the planet and I would never inflict that on others

So we may as well just turn the lights out now!! You say that you are going to live of the state in your retirement? Where is that money going to come from without people continueing with the human race?? How can having children be ecologically bad for the planet? What planet are you living on??  

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

On the rare occasions that I have to use the local supermarkets, I dread it. Not because of the kids, as I tend to avoid going there after school times. It is the 'Old Uns'! Perhaps that is too much of a generalisation.
The ones who were the generation who fought in WW2 are polite, but it is the ones after that who I have found to be rude and obnoxious.
Maybe I need to go and live in a remote place where I don't meet people.

[Skibum346]

Why do people today "need" parent & child spaces?

I don't remember my old man being able to slot into a nice wide parking space at Fine Fare (Who remembers them?!), or anywhere else for that matter. People have been programmed by the marketing teams at supermarkets who know that a family buys more product due to the mouths to feed etc and the double whammy of impulse buys to shut the kid up.

On a different subject, mentioned by Carracarra... Disabled parking bays, I abhor the lazy, arrogant selfish individuals who use these without a legal blue badge. I used to carry some business cards I made up with a disabled symbol on it and the following wording:

You have parked in a disabled parking bay without displaying a blue badge. Is this the only time you put yourself in their place?

The trouble is, in this country we have all stopped giving a damn. We need to stand up to these selfish people (whatever they are doing) and when we see someone else stand up to them, we should back them up.

I do... do you?

[Chris Putt]

'How can having children be bad for the planet'. Thats an easy one. I live on planet earth, like the rest of us, but I have my eyes open to the global resource crisis that is/will soon be upon us- something I feel a large proportion of the population is largely blind to due to the education, schooling and positivist society we live in.

The planet has already exceeded its sustainable carrying capacity for life- Britain in particular is WELL beyond its sensible carrying capacity to sustain itself, hence we import food and other goods from elsewhere. each time somebody has a child it is an increased burden on the society as a whole (Infrastructure/food/socially).

As a consumerist and largely positivist society the dominant worldview is that the earth was provided for us to exploit, hence the issues we now have with food/oil/water/energy resources. Each extra mouth we need to feed further increases demand- further outstripping supply. As a more economically developed country our energy demand (both fuel resources and food if you look at the planet holistically- bordering on a deep ecologists perspective)  is vastly higher than that of a less economically developed country and we exist in an unsustainable society as a result.

As the demand for energy increases we will continue to exploit less and less viable resources, gradually pricing ourselves out of the market and fighting for less available supplies. This is reflected by oil prices, decreasing productivity of farmland (again global- look at desertification) and the now seemingly unsurmountable energy gap that we are faced with in coming years.

Our current population level is not sustainable- therefore any additional growth is even less so. Unless there is a change in the dominant worldview (paradigm) in which we live this will not change.

LSP, with your comment on using local shops etc, you have the definite right attitude, this is exactly the kind of thinking society needs and where possible this is what I do- saves aggro and supports local trade.

The amount of NI and taxes I have/will have to pay during my lifetime Im sure will be the equivalent (or likely more) than a state pension- Frankly I intend to, and will have earned it.

Question answered?

the other major question is, linked in with the above- What kind of society are we going to live in in one or two generations time? Will the planet even be able to sustain a good quality of life given all the issues we currently have?

Yes, in my industry I am uniquely placed to effect the development of a child, and yes the instructors who play the 'look at me, Im great game' tend to get nowhere, it is usually picked up by those around them, and the kids have little or no respect for them. If and when I have to work with kids I lay out simple parameters and if they choose to operate outside of them then they are off the session,  they are in privileged position to be able to do what they are doing, and if they choose to cause hassle then they are a waste of my time, and prevent other participants from gaining the maximum they can. I have this zero tolerance policy and as yet, have only ever had to remove one child from a session though misbehavior as they understood.

At the end of the day, I an a professional and I am there to offer the best service I can, its not in my interests to turn clients away put them off coming back- that would be counter productive surely?

In addition. I am not here to 'burn' people, just provide a balanced argument (something rarely seen these days) and AM willing to play devils advocate with my statements- although most do reflect my PERSONAL views which I entitled to. I hope that I have given you some food for thought?

[Chris Putt]

Currently a  18 year old BMW 3 series. And TBH Old landrovers are fairly sound propositions if you look at the bigger picture of car ownership- many recycled parts available, can be run on LPG or used veg oil etc (although these fuel sources have their own issues) . In actual fact any second hand car is better than new until so far a truly recycled vehicle comes along (embedded energy- the bigger picture) if you can justify the ownership of a 4x4 then I see no issue with it, its not ideal but hey do we live in an ideal world? My reasons for selling my disco which I had as a day to day vehicle and an offroad toy were based around the fact that I couldn't justify to myself having such an inefficient vehicle given the relative proportions of time and milage it did on and off road in addition to being injured- not allowing me to use it offroad?

I think that people tend to see a very, very narrow picture (media induced I feel- car ownership and 4x4s in particular being the prize whipping boys). Think BIG. In a lifetime how much packaging do you throw away, how much human waste do you produce that needs to be treated, how much power do you use in your household (and where does this come from?- anyone spotted the planss for more nuclear energy over the next few years?). How many products in your house are manufactured from petro-chemicals? Do you think about what you eat- the inefficiencies of eating further up the food chain?
Car/road whilst being a major issue is only part of the picture- air travel is far more significant.

Those are the facts of the matter. There is an Environmental Crisis, theres enough research and literature out there (Gaia/ The revenge of Gaia- James Lovelock anyone?)

You'll note my comment about BALANCED argument- hence my comments and if you feel the need to shout me down, then go ahead.

Do you seriously think I expect everyone to stop having kids- Come on, be realistic here, that will never happen but maybe if every couple only had ONE child and the population dropped off we may have some chance of salvaging the situation.

Comments of 'you need to get back on this planet' are completely unfounded, is it that I am looking on things from a different angle that troubles you?

I am a realist and look on things purely analytically, go out and find some reading on the subject, as a former skeptic prior to university studies I can see why- I think you will be shocked.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I shall try to play Devil's Advocate.

I understand and agree with the angle at which a lot of the responses are coming from in relation to Chris's points of view.

I also think that Chris's responses are well balanced and put across.

I love my kids to bits, and I dare say that I will fall into the 'Grandfather' category at some point, but I have to say that I do have genuine concerns about what the future holds.

Not necessarily in relation to the ecological aspect, but more about what I see as a breakdown in society as a whole. The ability to have compassion for those who need it, the willingness to help others, while still there is slowly being eroded and taken over by a 'Sod you Jack, I'm alright' attitude, which, if I'm not mistaken, is what the topic of this post is sort of about.

Being someone who is in an organisation that is there to supposedly help and support the downtrodden of society and to protect the decent folk from the bad guys, I find my faith, trust and belief in the ability of Humankind to 'do the right thing' disapearing. My occupation has ceased to be a vocation and is now just a job.
Have I a solution? I wish.

Let's not let this post go the way of others. Peace!

[carracarra13]

Currently a  18 year old BMW 3 series. And TBH Old landrovers are fairly sound propositions if you look at the bigger picture of car ownership- many recycled parts available, can be run on LPG or used veg oil etc (although these fuel sources have their own issues) . In actual fact any second hand car is better than new until so far a truly recycled vehicle comes along (embedded energy- the bigger picture) if you can justify the ownership of a 4x4 then I see no issue with it, its not ideal but hey do we live in an ideal world? My reasons for selling my disco which I had as a day to day vehicle and an offroad toy were based around the fact that I couldn't justify to myself having such an inefficient vehicle given the relative proportions of time and milage it did on and off road in addition to being injured- not allowing me to use it offroad?

I think that people tend to see a very, very narrow picture (media induced I feel- car ownership and 4x4s in particular being the prize whipping boys). Think BIG. In a lifetime how much packaging do you throw away, how much human waste do you produce that needs to be treated, how much power do you use in your household (and where does this come from?- anyone spotted the planss for more nuclear energy over the next few years?). How many products in your house are manufactured from petro-chemicals? Do you think about what you eat- the inefficiencies of eating further up the food chain?
Car/road whilst being a major issue is only part of the picture- air travel is far more significant.

Those are the facts of the matter. There is an Environmental Crisis, theres enough research and literature out there (Gaia/ The revenge of Gaia- James Lovelock anyone?)

You'll note my comment about BALANCED argument- hence my comments and if you feel the need to shout me down, then go ahead.

Do you seriously think I expect everyone to stop having kids- Come on, be realistic here, that will never happen but maybe if every couple only had ONE child and the population dropped off we may have some chance of salvaging the situation.

Comments of 'you need to get back on this planet' are completely unfounded, is it that I am looking on things from a different angle that troubles you?

I am a realist and look on things purely analytically, go out and find some reading on the subject, as a former skeptic prior to university studies I can see why- I think you will be shocked.

      Chriss  I hear what you are saying and yes every one is entitled to there qpponion this keeps the forum healthy lol and when I was 22 I had the same thoughts as you im now 43 and our kids are the excuse to get another 4x4 and edicate them if you catch my drift and I must be onest I dont use parent parking if I saw  and elderly person parked in it I would think maybe Ill be fortunate enough to live as many years as them and if it wasnt for there gereration we would not have the privlages we have now we think we are hard done by but were are very welthy compared to in there youth