Tom's Farm, near Rhayader.

[Llanigraham]

Quote from today's Cambrian News:

" A Pantydwr couple accused of breaching prohibition notices which prevented them from hiring their land for use with off-road vehicles are to appear in Court this month.
Thomas Steven John Breeze and his wife Elizabeth of Cwmderw, Pantydwr near Rhayader are facing charges of of contravening a prohibition imposed by Powys County Council under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974. The case at Llandrindod Magistrates Court was adjourned until 28th April for pre-trial review and mode of trial"

[stuntman]

Oh, that's knocked that one on the head!

[Gordo]

H&S? Not planning? Strange...  :-k

[fatphunker]

good

[big andy w]

I hoped this was an April fools joke, were ment to be going at easter weekend!  :'(

is it likely if they have broken the notice they will continue to break the notice untill the court appearence! :clap:

Any info appreciated! :)

[Llanigraham]

Gates are locked and access is denied.
You could possibly leave yourself open to prosecution and possible loss of your vehicles if you did try to go there. Depends on how "stroppy" the County Council and/or Police want to get.

It is not far from me, so I am keeping my ears open for local news and updates.

Gordon, I suspect that there is more "clout" with H & S Regulations than with Planning laws.

[big andy w]

Is this rule they have broken down to the use of un road licensed vehicles on there land?

Noticed most off road places now state vehicles must be taxed, where as a few years ago you could use a go cart with v8 if you wanted!  :dance:

Am i right in thinking, taking money off people in un road taxed vehicles becomes the land owners responsibility for there health and safety, where as road taxed vehicles the responsibility is with the vehicles driver?  :?

[paul_humphreys]

Not an Aprils fools trick. I knew it was locked up 2 weeks ago.

Paul

[TDi90]

finally. long overdue IMO .

[Disco Matt]

I suspect H&S may be interested in some of the horror stories. From what I've heard about the place it doesn't sound as if much is done to deal with unsafe driving or riding.

[Llanigraham]

From what I have heard locally the County Council have been concerned with various things, from the lack of safety to the incorrect Planning permisions. Concern has been raised by the Ambulance Service, because the number of times they have had to deploy the Air Ambulance, to complaints by other neighbouring land owners of trespass and damage.

As has happened before, apparently the owner has been warned and chosen to ignore the legislators.

[TDi90]

I suspect H&S may be interested in some of the horror stories. From what I've heard about the place it doesn't sound as if much is done to deal with unsafe driving or riding.

or the dead sheep littered around the place and the fact bikes and 4x4's come together, accidents happen, always people airlifted from there...
people steal from him and and and....

[clover]

word has is that a gang of lads robbed him and his wife of their takings including their life savings as well. Had it away with about £100,000. So the story goes!

[Llanigraham]

Not heard that one. There has been nothing in the local press or local "talk".

[Disco Matt]

I suspect H&S may be interested in some of the horror stories. From what I've heard about the place it doesn't sound as if much is done to deal with unsafe driving or riding.

or the dead sheep littered around the place and the fact bikes and 4x4's come together, accidents happen, always people airlifted from there...
people steal from him and and and....

Yep, that's much the same as I've heard!

The sad part is that from the photos I've seen the site could be excellent if better run and with the proper permissions. I'm a big believer in pay and play sites as they offer the extreme crowd somewhere to mess around, hopefully meaning that they won't do it on rights of way. However, with the publicity this case will generate locally the chances of anyone else getting a legitimate well-run site off the ground must be far slimmer.

I remember someone attempting to get one started a while ago, the greenies of course mobilised their national network in an attempt to block it, most of whom have no connection with the area and therefore no right to comment on something that will never have any impact on them.

[stretchy]

Im a regular at toms farm love it !!! It is dangerous I know but you cant pay to go onto a site like this and then start moaning about h&s when you come a croper. 4x4 and motox can be a dangerous game where ever you choose to do it if you cant accept that DONT DO IT! I would love to see your faces when all the kids that do motox start riding in your local parks where you walk the dog or kids play becase ther is nowhere for them to go!

toms farm is legend. It is his land let him do what he wants with it.

[Disco Matt]

I don't argue that motorsport is dangerous. I've marshalled an FIA event before (Baja GB 2007). But I would point out that on that event as with all well-run competitions there was a spectacular rulebook, large chunks of which covered safety for the drivers/riders and officials. As a result, a week of 4x4s going through forests at around 80mph passed without injury.

Sensible 4x4ing is no more dangerous than driving on road. I feel far safer trundling over Conquering Hero on a 40 degree side slope than I do driving on some main roads around here, mainly because the idiot noddy types aren't found on lanes!

[clover]

Most of the local lads that I know, but steer well clear of, use Tom's Farm regularly. I guess this means the local lanes will be their target now :-(

BTW I've never been to Tom's farm myself as I am too tight to pay a farmer for the privilege of messing around and breaking stuff!

[drfence]

Most of the local lads that I know, but steer well clear of, use Tom's Farm regularly. I guess this means the local lanes will be their target now :-(

BTW I've never been to Tom's farm myself as I am too tight to pay a farmer for the privilege of messing around and breaking stuff!

what a two faced  :-# most of the local lads yes do use toms farm as any other pay and play site,thats not to say where going to abuse what lanes we have left ,as you have said maybe you are too tight  to cover breakages you might do on these sites so stick to your gravel tracks and let paying customers be

[Drift]

Most of the local lads that I know, but steer well clear of, use Tom's Farm regularly. I guess this means the local lanes will be their target now :-(

BTW I've never been to Tom's farm myself as I am too tight to pay a farmer for the privilege of messing around and breaking stuff!

what a two faced  :-# most of the local lads yes do use toms farm as any other pay and play site,thats not to say where going to abuse what lanes we have left ,as you have said maybe you are too tight  to cover breakages you might do on these sites so stick to your gravel tracks and let paying customers be

Does that include VAT and public liability insurance, and the relevant land usage rights/ planning rights?  only saying  ;)

[clover]

These particular lads do! Point taken thou... don't get me wrong I'm not saying every one who uses Tom's farm and pay and play sites is the same, just this group in particular, that will need some other creative outlet for their aggression.

I'm not criticizing paying customers at all as I will have be become one eventually when the government closes all the lanes. I am all for sticking up for the right to use these sites.

I have never used Tom's farm myself and the fact that I'm too tight to do so was me poking fun at myself. An opportunity missed and all that...

 


 

[clbarclay]

Tom's Farm along with Tom were from a different generation and way of life to the current political correctness. I have been there a few times, though not for a while now. There were many aspects of the site that I did not agree with, but many I can appreciate other people not understanding, such as Tom's apparent attitude towards the aurthorities.


An interesting point about not wanting to pay for off roading, I actually find a days greenlaning as expensive as a days pay and plays due to the amount of fuel used, though that is with a petrol and doesn't include towing.

[mass199]

Some of the my mates go regularly and they went last weekend 26/4/2009. All ok and open but with Dyfed/powys police with ANPR cameras sat outside the gate making sure all was legal. I've been told the police are very friendly and helpfull.

I hope this helps Mark

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I've never been to Tom's farm, but speaking as one whose job it is to catch naughty people, I would rather have a place where younglings can go and learn how to handle cars/bikes, than have them blatting up and down on Public highways (all types) risking accidents, seizure of vehicles and criminalization.
On the other hand, places that are available should abide by all the regs that are there to stop injuries. In this day and age of the 'blame culture', is that not a good thing?
All humans need an element of risk in their lives. It teaches common sense, logical thinking and respect for their machinery and their surroundings.

[TDi90]

  :doh:
should be SHUT.

[Disco Matt]

We could really use a good pay and play out here, but it needs to be a site where everyone feels that their vehicle is safe. See, I know I won't try anything that looks to me as though it has a high risk of doing serious damage. But that doesn't help when someone else's idiot mistake ends up doing damage to your truck.

[TechnoTurkey]

Have been there many times, but not for a couple of years.

The site itself couldnt be better, plenty of variation.  You do get some idiots there and as a previous poster said, Tom is from a different generation/way o flife.

With a few marshalls and the proper permissions etc then the place could be the best in the country, as it is with Tom collecting the money and his wife making the tea there just isn't enough resource there to stop people from being very dangerous at times.

I can't comment on the farming side of things as I am not an animal expert nor have I seen any cases of extreme neglect there.

[clbarclay]

You do get some idiots there and as a previous poster said, Tom is from a different generation/way o flife.

Thanks for that. Would you please like to explain what part of that makes you think I am an idiot, or was it just stating the obvious for you. That comment was intended for people who had not stopped to think about 'why' and instead just jump straight to judging people. I've known a fair few people that are in ways similar to Tom, and when people come along and start telling them how to do things different having been doing it their own way for a long and they don't like it, whether they write or wrong. Just telling someone they are wrong, doesn't necisserily solve anything, particuarly if there 'defence mechanism' is to just ignor the other person.
I don't think insults, locals complaining, court orders or police crack downs etc. allown are going to change Tom to be in keeping with the general society. After all being called an idiot doesn't make me think any better of or inclined to agree with TechnoTurkey.


On a lighter, but serious note

On the other hand, places that are available should abide by all the regs that are there to stop injuries. In this day and age of the 'blame culture', is that not a good thing?

I would have though someone as PC as would know that using words like stop in that circustance was liably dangerious. What if an accident does happen and you just said they couldn't. It sound rediculous (to me at least), but people have gone to court just beasue of the seamingly innocent at the time words that they used.

In engineering we get it a fair bit. For eaxmple where instead of stating a car passed a test, you have to state it did not fail during the testing, just to cover your self in case later on the component you tested failed and resulted in injoury or death.

Its a strange world we live in.

[ChrisW70]

You do get some idiots there and as a previous poster said, Tom is from a different generation/way o flife.

Thanks for that. Would you please like to explain what part of that makes you think I am an idiot, or was it just stating the obvious for you.

Now, now, I believe the point trying to be made was that "some" of the people that have been to Tom's Farm, in the previous posters experience have been a bit silly, pretty much akin to any pay and play site, particularly those with only a few marshals - NOT everyone that has been to Tom's Farm is an idiot.

Let's try not to read things into posts that aren't there please.

Back to topic...

[clbarclay]

Sorry, I must have miss read that without the 'and' between "idiots there" and as a" :doh: