arrested for a fishingknife

[stretchy]

alrite guys I was just arreseted for carying a camping/fishing knife in my disco amongst all the other gear I have. Im on bail till next friday I will let you know what hapends. I have a feeling it will go to court as I had no real reasen to have it with me other than I ocasinaly go offrosding/camping and was just left in there. they also said they was going to check on here to see if I realy did do this type of stuf. just be carefull what you cary and when!

[Range Rover Blues]

That's taking the pee a bit though, what reason did they have for searching your car anyway?

[V8MoneyPit]

That's taking the pee a bit though, what reason did they have for searching your car anyway?

That was my first though too. Sure they have to have 'good reason' to search the vehicle? Or was it fully visible?

If we are carrying the air rifle to the fields we always cover it up even if we don't intend stopping on the way. It's just not worth the agro even though we are carrying it perfectly within the law.

[topless matt]

Ive been stopped for carrying knives before.............. i told the officer to follow me to work and he will see why i have them with me. I went to work and the first thing i had to do was cut the netwrap on a bale of silage for some of the cattle, he left at that point saying he was very sorry for causing me inconvienience  :dance:

[V8MoneyPit]

I believe the law is quite clear in this matter in that you can carry a knife if it is in connection with your job and you are on your way to that job. However, like Stretchy say's, it is all too easy to forget it's there and you can get caught out by it. I would like to think that if you can demonstrate it is for use in connection with your job and that you simply forgot to take it out of the car, that they would be lenient.

[Terranosaurus]

Ive been stopped for carrying knives before.............. i told the officer to follow me to work and he will see why i have them with me. I went to work and the first thing i had to do was cut the netwrap on a bale of silage for some of the cattle, he left at that point saying he was very sorry for causing me inconvienience  :dance:

Never been stopped but I carry a small folding knive (one of those relatively new folding stanley type ones), just about all the time, like you I use it for work, but has more 1000 uses too - not sure on legal stand point but feel happy enough to justify my need to carry it, and I'm self employed so not set work times...

[topless matt]

Im lucky he only saw the on sitting on my passenger seat, i think last time i looked there were 4 or 5 in and around my truck, including a sheath knife that i use to cut steel wire bound bales!
Like you, you never know when you need one.
That and i always seem to break them in general use :lol:

[carbore]

A Yo are a victim of London lead media hysteria and policing by statistics.

I work in London and see a lot of london news and papers etc, to the London media Knife=Weapon and thats it.  Now thats pretty bad if you live in London but as London news dominates "national" news those attitudes spread out across the country.

If, like me you live in a rural area knife=tool, but nowadays if you put on the wrong coat that has a knife in your pocket you are a criminal.

Hope you get off as you deserve.

Oh yes and the contents of my shed would qualify me as a bomb making factory, (Wire, nails Battery's etc, mind you no explosives but im not sure about my paint thinners or B&Q weed killer)

[topless matt]

If youd get done for bomb making, you should see where i work........ hundereds of nails, 5000L diesel and over 20t ammonimum nitrate  8-[

[T30CDB]

alrite guys I was just arreseted for carying a camping/fishing knife in my disco amongst all the other gear I have. Im on bail till next friday I will let you know what hapends. I have a feeling it will go to court as I had no real reasen to have it with me other than I ocasinaly go offrosding/camping and was just left in there. they also said they was going to check on here to see if I realy did do this type of stuf. just be carefull what you cary and when!

The law says in general, it is an offence to carry a knife in a public place without a good reason or lawful authority(for example , a good reason is a chef on their way to work and carrying their own knives). However it is not illegal for anyone to carry a foldable, non locking knife, such as a swiss army knife, in a public place, as long as the blade is shorter than three inches(7.62 cms).

[zebidee]

However it is not illegal for anyone to carry a foldable, non locking knife, such as a swiss army knife, in a public place, as long as the blade is shorter than three inches(7.62 cms).

Cause there's no way in which a 2.95" knife could do the damage a 3" knife could.

Almost as stupid as the arbitary rules on liquids on planes. What can you do with 110ml of liquid that you can't do with 100ml?

Don't get me wrong - I know there're some nasty types out there who'll do bad stuff with knives but why criminalise everyone just for possession? Surely it's intent that matters - or is it just that intent is difficult to prove while possession is obvious.

A good couple of years ago I was walking with my mates back to their flat in Edinburgh after they'd been doing some sword re-enactment once. I was carrying a Hungarian hunting bow, they had a double-handed claymore and a broadsword each. Walked past two cops who didn't even blink.

Sounds like your cop was low on bookings and needed to make up his quota.

[Disco Matt]

See, I can't help but think how convenient the ban on taking liquids aboard planes was for the airlines. Or more specifically their ability to sell overpriced drinks to a captive audience who now have no alternative...

Did anyone else emit a derisive snort at the recent statement that there would be no minimum price on alcoholic drinks because "it would penalise the responsible drinkers". Isn't that exactly what they've done with guns, knives, etc? 

I suspect the Police out here would only take any notice if you actually had the knife out and were waving it in a threatening manner, or if it was found after they'd arrested you for something else such as starting a bar brawl. Despite increasingly paranoid Home Secretaries they seem to be a sensible bunch in Mid Wales.

[paul_humphreys]

Christ do not look in the back of my Landcruiser!! There is a pick axe, axe, chainsaw and a 24" machette :shock: with other things. But they are all in the rear with no access from the front. Looking in the glove box, there is 2 stanley knives and a Swiss army knife.

How big was the knife they found?

Paul

[Gordo]

Stretchy,

I wish you luck in your court appearance. The starting point for possession of a knife in a non-threatening situation is 12 weeks custody for a first offence.

See the knife-crime sentencing guidelines here.

 

[crazymac]

It really does depend on a few things.

1. Where was the knife? If it was in the door pocket or other easy to reach position then that will raise the attention of the police, they will argue that it was in a position where it could be grabbed in anger.

2. Is it a lock knife? Any blade that locks into position is a no no!

3. What is the reason for carrying the knife? As has been said, with good reason then you will be OK.

Personally, I have Gerber Multi tool on my belt all the time, in my cubby box I have another as well as a fixed "utility" type blade, these are the ones that the police could question. In a box in my boot I carry a 18 inch machette, a small hand axe and a couple of bow saws!

If you carry the knives in the boot (I.E. out of easy reach in anger!!) then you should be OK.

Oh, and when I wear my kilt I have a 4 1/2 inch throwing knife in my sock!!

[Discopoo]

A little off topic but I have thing about swords, now you you can't buy a sword with a curved blade over a certain length if it is a curved blade (samurai) but a straight one is ok. This applies to both live and display blades.

Just shows how crazy the laws can be, you can't get all oriental on some one but you can run round with a 5 foot broadsword ?

[V8MoneyPit]

2. Is it a lock knife? Any blade that locks into position is a no no!

True. But I find the locking type a lot safer to use!! I have a small folding (and locking) knife that I use for all sorts of things. It locks shut so it doesn't open in my pocket  :shock: :lol: and it locks open so it can't shut on my fingers. Seems sensible to me, but it is now illegal to carry it anywhere.

[clbarclay]

They have to draw the lines somewhere on what is or isn't allowed, though in the case of the samuri v. broadsword that one does sound like they didn't quite get it right :lol:

2. Is it a lock knife? Any blade that locks into position is a no no!

Thats a pain, My prefered general purpose knife is an Opinel #7 pen knife which is 5mm too long and has a twist lock (closed and open) on the blade. For what I do the twist lock is safer than the detented blade on my swiss army knife which has at times tried to close up on my fingers, but then the law wasn't writen by/for farmers.


Matt I know what you mean about the bombs, we even have some old lengths of drain pipe as well. Most kitchens have the contents to make crude plastic explosive as well. Fortunately the vast majority of the people in this world value each others lives.

[stretchy]

The knife was under some other rubish in the side pocket. the nife is a fixed 7 inch blade with kit and compas in the handle and was in a sheath. Im realy not chufed I did nothing wrong and will proberley represent myself if the <edit> hits and goes to court. Its funy how ther is no difrence in situation from the day I purchased it than to when i was cught with it lastnight in fact when i purchased it sevral year ago I think I got the buss home (perfectly legal) It was in a sheath under some stuf in my car  I never leve my car unlocked and I forgot it was ther so if thay want to prosicute me I will just laugh it out and see what happens.  In my disco at the time  was also other tools equaly as dangerus. stanley knifes chain saw air rifle axe and they said nothing. they dident even want to look at my rifle. It could have been an unlicenced shoty in the bag  :shock: ther was 6 bobies looking over my disco and I cant belive thay had the ordasity
to ask me for my username on mud club as they dident beleve I go offroading/camping. Is the 1 inch of mud on my bonet bonnet not clear enough  to 6 copers?  :x I refused but they said thay would be checking. I do on the other hand relise what the police are trying to do with cutting crime and all but as yall say a knife has 1000 uses so It will still be the first thing I pack when I go next.

[Disco Matt]

I'm not sure representing yourself is the best idea unless you're very well-versed in the law and can argue convincingly. With 12 weeks behind bars as a possible outcome the stakes are a bit high to risk it.

[crazymac]

I'm not sure representing yourself is the best idea unless you're very well-versed in the law and can argue convincingly. With 12 weeks behind bars as a possible outcome the stakes are a bit high to risk it.

I got to agree with this. By the sounds of it, you haven't been interviewed on this yet? If so, when you answer bail they may want to question you then. Remember though that the decision on wether this goes to court is nothing to do with the Police, they put a file together which is then put to the CPS (Crown Proscecution Service) to decide wether it is in the public interest to go ahead and they also assign a percieved percentage chance of successto help them make this decision.

If you have a clean record prior to this, then the chances of anything nasty like custody is very unlikely, but having a duty soliciter in with you can help dramatically. Remember there is legal aid! But when it comes to interview the duty soliciter will not cost.

Be prepared to apologise, say that you forgot it was there and that you won't keep it there in future, you will ensure it is either in the boot or left at home. Remember the reasonable person is the person the police will listn to, if you are beligerant or aggressive then you will get nowhere.

[muddy4x4]

Six coppers ? Could I ask why six coppers went through your disco ?
Seems a little OTT  to me !!! Mind you where I live if you need a copper you can`t find one. Call 999 and you`ll still be waiting after 3 hours. Then on the other hand when you don`t need one they are in your face. Trying to get you for something. Just my views tho

[Mud_Medic]

Hi ya

CrazyMac is right. As soon as they say the words ,"You do not have to say anything....>" You demand a legal representative.

If you do this in a police station, and you are facing a potential custodial sentence, then this is provided free. If they say this at your home, (can we come to your place to ask you a few questions), then it has to be provided at your expense. I learnt that one from experience.

Please keep us all informed how you get on...

[Range Rover Blues]

You can probably get an hour with a good solicitor for free, it's got to be worth having a chat with one.

As for keeping the knife in a side pocket, surely from ther point of view of vehicle safety it's preferable to having it rolling around in a holdall, at least in the door pocket it's secured.

At what point will carrying a hi-lift become a criminal offence then?, or a pry-bar.

And on what grounds can the police search your car anyway, it's not "public".

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

I might be throwing myself open to some comments here but such is life.

I would speak to a solicitor asap on this.

I would be interested to see what it says on the stop/search form that they should have completed. What act / power did they use? 

Comments about the need for 6 cops. There may well have been a high knife crime  or disorder problem in the area, which would explain what sounds like a van crew.

I'm a bit interested about why they wanted your user name for MC  :?

I just find it odd, especially as I always carry a Leatherman on my belt when on and off duty.

[crazymac]

Just some more info regarding the powers of search that the police have and your rights.

Many people are unaware of their stop, search and arrest rights. The police do have legal powers to stop, search, and arrest but only under certain conditions. However, new legislation means that these conditions have been extended and the police can stop and search without the need to give a reason under special circumstances.



Stop and Search
The police do have powers when it comes to stopping and searching the public. However, the police must have reasonable grounds for suspicion to exercise these powers. The police cannot just stop a person on an instinct or a hunch; there must be grounds to actually stop the person. For instance, if the police observed a person was found to be behaving suspiciously then this could be deemed as reasonable suspicion to stop and search.



Searches and Reasonable Suspicion
If reasonable suspicion is found then the police can stop, question, and search a suspect’s person and vehicle. If the police do stop a member of the public with the intention of searching them the suspect should always ask why they are being searched. If the police cannot give a justifiable reason for the search then the search should not be carried out. If the search continues without justification then a complaint can be made against the police.



The Search Process
There is a set procedure that must be followed by the police when it comes to stopping and searching a member of the public. The police officer must use a warrant card to prove their identity if they are not in uniform. They must also give information on their power to stop and search, provide their name and police station, and why the search is taking place. The police cannot order the removal of clothes in public, although they can search pockets and feel the lining of clothes. Any search that involves the intimate areas of a suspect must be undertaken by a member of the same sex.



Areas of Search
There are a number of different public and private areas where the police can stop and search. These areas are set out in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE). The police can stop and search anywhere that the public has access to or has been given permission of access. The police cannot search a suspect’s home or vehicle if it is on land that is part of the suspect’s home.



Searching For Items
There are a number of different items that the police will usually search for. This can include offensive weapons and articles that are deemed to be in some way connected to criminal activity. They may also stop and search vehicles if they suspect that they have been taken without permission. A more common stop and search reason is if the police suspect that a member of the public is carrying controlled drugs.



New Stop and Search Laws
New legislation has been brought in that gives the police extended powers when it comes to the stop and search procedure. Under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 a Chief Constable can designate certain areas as stop and search areas. This means that the police can use stop and search powers without the need for any reasonable suspicion. In the past section 44 has been used within peaceful public protests. At the moment the whole of London is a designated area for stop and search under section 44.


Arrest Rights
In 2006 the rights of who the police could and couldn’t arrest underwent a change. Before 2006 the police in England and Wales only had the power to arrest people they suspected of committing very serious offences that would result in at least a five year sentence. Now the police can arrest anyone they suspect of committing an indictable offence. This is an offence that can be taken before a crown court with a jury present.


Indictable offences will include theft, assault or criminal damage. However, the police must still have reasonable suspicion that a member of the public is committing or is about to commit an indictable offence before an arrest can take place.


The police have recently been granted greater powers when it comes to stop, search, and arrest. But this does not eliminate the public rights when it comes to this procedure. Any abuse of the public’s rights can be seen as unlawful and the police can face prosecution and disciplinary procedures if they have abused a suspect’s rights.

[Oli-L]

Usually when i go out greenlaning i have my Leather-man on my belt, if i got pulled over for some reason or another could i get arrested for carring that around with me..?? 

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Usually when i go out greenlaning i have my Leather-man on my belt, if i got pulled over for some reason or another could i get arrested for carring that around with me..?? 

In theory, yes. But it all depends on circumstances and on who stops you.
I've lifted very few people for knife offences, but those that have been have usually been with aggravating factors such as knife crime in the area, knives used to commit offences etc etc.
If someone comes up with a decent reason then all well and good. There has to be an element of trust. I've seen more people injured as a result of other weapons, such as baseball bats, bottles, broken beer glasses, lumps of wood, stone, even keys, than I have with knives.

[Chris Putt]

I have been asked questions by an officer regarding a knife that I carry in my Bouyancy aid before for rafting and kayaking- Having explained what it was for was told to 'just make sure its out of sight'. That has a locking blade- not really sure how the differentiation is made between tool and weapon?

Chris

[Oli-L]

Usually when i go out greenlaning i have my Leather-man on my belt, if i got pulled over for some reason or another could i get arrested for carring that around with me..?? 

In theory, yes. But it all depends on circumstances and on who stops you.
I've lifted very few people for knife offences, but those that have been have usually been with aggravating factors such as knife crime in the area, knives used to commit offences etc etc.
If someone comes up with a decent reason then all well and good. There has to be an element of trust. I've seen more people injured as a result of other weapons, such as baseball bats, bottles, broken beer glasses, lumps of wood, stone, even keys, than I have with knives.

Ah i see, Ok cool, Thanks for clearing that up for me...