Topic: arrested for a fishingknife (Read 16147 times)

crazymac · « **Reply #60 on:** April 17, 2009, 16:06:52 »

Quote from: Lord Shagg-Pyle on April 17, 2009, 12:51:46

Source: Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act, 1959. Section 1(1).
Offence: It is an offence for a person to manufacture, sell, hire or offer for sale or hire or expose or have in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire, or lend or give to any person:
A) any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, sometimes know as a ‘flick knife’ or ‘flick gun’; or
B) any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device, sometimes known as a ‘gravity knife’.

Some good info there LSP, thanks.

One thing I notice, is the variation of what I call a lock knife and what the LAW call as lock knife?

The way I read the above, is the LOCK knife bit ties into the "Gravity knife" In that the blade is released by gravity then locks into place. This being different that say and Opinel knife where you have to physically PULL the blade out and lock it into place. ??

Does anyone elso see it this way?

topless matt · « **Reply #61 on:** April 17, 2009, 16:48:17 »

Yeah i agree with that!

Lord Shagg-Pyle · « **Reply #62 on:** April 17, 2009, 18:59:23 »

Which is how I would interpret it.

Going by Stretchy's description, I will 'assume' the knife in question will be something like the one below.

There are several ways of looking at this scenario:

1) If I was to find that on someone, they would be eating gravel very quickly, possibly with a smidgin of CS and a bit of baton thrown in, before away to spend a night in our luxury accomadation. I have faced something like that. Not nice in anyway whatsoever. I still get the jitters about it now. The Black Dog frequently snaps at my heels.

2) If I was to find that in someone's car close to them, I would be getting very tetchy indeed, but I would be asking a lot of questions as to why, how, etc etc, before making decisions on the next move.

3) If it I was to find it tucked away at the bottom of the boot amongst tools away from easy access, I would be less twitchy, but would still ask the pertinent questions

For examples 2 & 3, the folllowing factors would come into play.

The subject's previous convictions, if any.
The results of an intelligence check, and I don't mean their IQ.
The time of day.
The location.
The circumstances given by the subject.
What my 'gut instinct' tells me about the person.

PLEASE NOTE: That is how I would deal with it. These views are not in any way those of the Police in general, but just the meanderings of someone who tries to see things logically.

It lies with the person in possesion of the knife to prove they had it for a legal purpose, not for Plod to prove otherwise.

CaptainColourful · « **Reply #63 on:** April 17, 2009, 22:53:20 »

I am sure that most people don't NEED to carry a knife at all, no matter what size or shape.
The best advise is not to leave yourself open to arrest and only carry one when you have followed the advice in LSP's long list of "what, when and if ".

As far as the cutting of seatbelts in an emergency is concerned, I recall seeing a gadget especially made for that use. It was a plastic body with 2 blades forming a V shape. It was similar to a tool that a lot of people use to cut shrink wrap from palletised goods.
Surely one of those fastened to your ignition keys would suffice ?

Fishing knives ? The only time I ever carried one was when I went seafishing, and it was left in my tacklebox until it was time to gut & fillet the fish on the way back to harbour .... by the time we landed onshore it was back in it's place nice and safe.
When I am course fishing, I can't imagine when a knife would be preferable to a pair of scissors or nail-clippers.

The "survival" type knives on sale seem to be multi-purpose ... blade,saw, matches, fishing line, compass etc etc... ideal if you are halfway up the amazon and in dire straights... but when exactly would you really need that here in the UK ?
Surely a mobile phone and/or a flare would be more use ?

The law as it stands is very clear... anyone with a knife blade over 3" in their possesion deserves to be looked at closely by the plod.
I really can't see a problem with that.

On the subject of tools... any screwdriver could be used as a lethal weapon so will we see those banned too if some lowlife decides that he can carry one instead of a knife ?

The list could go on and on ( a bit like this thread ) but it's all down to common sense from Joe Public and the plod using some initiative and a good old fashioned copper's nose for knowing when trouble is afoot.

Sorry it's been a long reply, I will now keep my gob shut on the subject !

defuzz · « **Reply #64 on:** April 17, 2009, 23:49:41 »

the important thing to remember is CONTEXT

It is illegal to carry anything that a police officer thinks might be an offensive weapon if you don't have a good reason, this includes, knives, screwdrivers, baseball bats etc.

If you are a chef on the way to work carrying a big knife, thats fine.
If you are a kid carrying a screw driver whilst out on the town, thats an offensive weapon.

Its also important to know that just because a blade is under 3 inches and doesn't lock, its not necesarily legal to carry, again , it is down to the context. If its in your glovebox as an emergency tool, you probably won't have any problems, but if you are the same chav going to the night club with it in your pocket, 3 inches or not, its an offensive weapon.

7 inches seems awfully big to just have in the car like that, and frankly, hollow handle survival knifs are the worst knives imaginable, utterly useless if you ask me but then I've seen them snao and imbed 2 inches from someones leg.... but thats not the point of this thread.

My knife of choice has always been an opinel, the locking blade gives some reasurance but for obvious reason I no longer take it off my own property. In the boot I have a retractable stanley knife (which has a locking blade but you'd be pretty unlucky for a copper to arrest you for that if its in a tool box, if its in your pocket down the pub, maybe...

Incidentally, leathermen knives are considered locking blades. the fact that the plier handles fold up to stop the blade closing make it a locking type.

Good luck with the rest of the legal process, I'd hope with a provable history of fishing and such like, you may get off witha wrist slapping but I don't know enough about the system to offer much more.

Onan The Barbarian · « **Reply #65 on:** April 19, 2009, 08:22:56 »

Not having a go, Stretchy, but... you still haven't said why you were stopped and searched in the first place.

It seems that most people are aware (or should be by now) that it's against the law to carry a knife with a blade over 3" for any reason other than previously stated (work, etc.), so to carry a knife with a 7" blade seems to be rather foolish.

Quote from: stretchy on April 17, 2009, 12:21:15

whatever that happends to be I will still pack a replacement on the next trip

And to publicly state that you'll be replacing it seems to indicate you've not learned anything from the experience... especially when the police have already told you they will be looking at your posts here! :shock:

squaddie_fox · « **Reply #66 on:** April 19, 2009, 18:15:35 »

he says he w2ill be replacing it to pack into his camping gear next time he goes. from what he has said before it doesn't look like he intentionally went out with the intent of using it as an offensive weapon, just happened to leave it in the door card.

still, what did you get stopped for?

i carry a big toolbox, axle stands, trolley jack, big bars, a high lift, a cordless drill and an angle grinder amongst other things. and have done in all my land rovers. come in handy alot when i break something, which is inevitable, or someone else break something.
i also carry axes and woodsaws etc. could do a hell of a lot more damage than with a piddly 7" knife.

when im at work i have a foot long machete, a long handle axe, a big bowsaw plus many other 'weapons' but its ok for me to carry them as im working. oh, and i carry a little hunting knife in my pocket for cutting cordage etc.

TDi90 · « **Reply #67 on:** April 19, 2009, 21:05:01 »

Quote from: squaddie_fox on April 19, 2009, 18:15:35

he says he w2ill be replacing it to pack into his camping gear next time he goes. from what he has said before it doesn't look like he intentionally went out with the intent of using it as an offensive weapon, just happened to leave it in the door card.

a piddly 7" knife.

hmm, you have an odd idea of a piddly knife...
7" :shock: thats not piddly!!
still, what was the reason for getting stopped?

stretchy · « **Reply #68 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:30:23 »

Im not sure what time it was now it was around 10 or 11 at night Id been at a pals for a few hours after work and he knew I was going to the tip in the morning so piled some more stuf on the trailer and set home. I think they just wanted to ask what I was up to but as soon as she opend the door she seen the sheath of the knife amongst some gloves and stuf in the poket. as I said like alot of you ther was other 'ofensive wepons' in my car at the time but they chose this becase it looks the most meniceing and will get some stripes when they hand it in down the station. im not against the old politzia in anyway at least we know they are doing there job but as someone said erlier althow this is not the case our vhicles should be private property and aslong as we can legaly buy the itiems keep them in our cars. why is it ok for me to drive home with that blade with a recept but on another acasion be deemed a criminal?

Alot of you are asking why have that with you, althogh I wasent sure it was still ther but I would normaly carry it to have it when needed rather need it and not have it, im sure alot of you can relate to that with your saws, axes, pen knifes, machetie's and other ''ofensive wepons''

UKJeeper · « **Reply #69 on:** April 22, 2009, 18:14:24 »

I've had a Victorinox (Swiss army) Champ and a Leatherman Supertool on my belt for the best part of 17 years. Never caught any grief over them. I've asked several plo... policepersons if they are alright to have, but all have said its OK.

Bishops Finger · « **Reply #70 on:** April 22, 2009, 22:22:36 »

Quote from: UKJeeper on April 22, 2009, 18:14:24

I've had a Victorinox (Swiss army) Champ and a Leatherman Supertool on my belt for the best part of 17 years. Never caught any grief over them. I've asked several plo... policepersons if they are alright to have, but all have said its OK.

You have a Champ on your belt....Are they not a tad heavy.....

andycwb · « **Reply #71 on:** April 24, 2009, 11:36:49 »

Quote from: UKJeeper on April 22, 2009, 18:14:24

I've had a Victorinox (Swiss army) Champ and a Leatherman Supertool on my belt for the best part of 17 years. Never caught any grief over them. I've asked several plo... policepersons if they are alright to have, but all have said its OK.

Likewise. 6cm non locking blade, in a belt holster. Never specifically asked but as far as I can tell is well within the law.

In the last 24 hours has been used to cut a plastic bottle down to waterproof the dizzy on the Dakar, repair my office chair, open a bottle of wine, and probably a few other things. It's utility is largely down to it's being accessible at all times, and I use it almost every single day. Given the current sensitivity I do tend to leave it at home if going to some kind of "event", but otherwise I carry it pretty much everywhere. It does put me in a slightly difficult situation if asked why I have it - the answer is "in case I need it for something", though I can usually find an example of why in the recent past.

stretchy · « **Reply #72 on:** April 30, 2009, 23:22:10 »

alrite felas.

update on the old knife fiasco

went to court this morning with a strong mined to go unrepresented and plead guilty then hopefully have the chance to say my peace and show my evidence during the pre sentence report. The reason for this was that I had recond the chances of being found innocent for this was slim and that the sentence would be far worse and also I really cant fork out for legal fees for a lengthy trial at the moment. The prosecution got hold of my papers and evidence and was shocked I was pleading guilty when I had such a strong case and told me that even if I did plead guilty the magistrates would not accept it. it would be classed as a Dilatory Plea apparently or something like that, so basically I was made to fight the allegation knowing the sentence would be far worse if found guilty. there was a solicitor who over heard what was going on and grabbed me aside and had a little look at the facts and immediately insisted on tacking this case up and was %99.9 he can win this matter and quickly. he even went back to his office to duble check I had a defence and asured me I do. The court room got changed to another room and he just walked in and said im entering a not guilty plea and then challenged the magistrate in 4 weeks time to come outside and sit in my disco and see if the knife location was visible while driving. to my shock he accepted. I then gave my not guilty plea and was given the choice to keep the case at magistrates or move it to crown with a jury and evrythink. I chose to keep it at magistrates. Thows of you with discos know you cant see the door poket while driving so in 4 weeks the disco will be outside the court and along with my other photos, im not getting my hopes up but it is certainly looking allot better than it did.

what a crazy day.

william127 · « **Reply #73 on:** April 30, 2009, 23:50:56 »

what a waste of your time and everyone elses, could have been sorted by the aplication of a little common sense (from the authoritys, not you)

stretchy · « **Reply #74 on:** May 01, 2009, 00:36:29 »

Exactly, but they are not botherd and never will be with there mercs and free city parking. me, im strugling to find the train fair to get up there lol. I was kinda hopeing this would go no further than the cop shop but seen as its not gone that way il just crack on and hopefully get a good outcome. I dont think the police has helped maters one bit. I mean maybe if they told the truth maybe it wouldnt have gone to court. im not saying they lied but they certanly left out some facts that may have put me in the clear. the fact that you cant see the door poket, she had to go rumaging through gloves and god knows what to get to it, that I was pulled over in a offroader kitted out with verios other tools/eqipment I read there side of it today it says none of this. That indicates to me they was angling for a conviction right from the word go.

freeagent · « **Reply #75 on:** May 01, 2009, 13:42:38 »

Quote from: stretchy on May 01, 2009, 00:36:29

That indicates to me they was angling for a conviction right from the word go.

..what a suprise....

Terranosaurus · « **Reply #76 on:** May 01, 2009, 15:39:52 »

Good luck - nice to see a solicitor using the intracacies of the law to good effect for the right reasons, rather than to get some fat cat off a drink driving (or similar) charge that he absolutely deserves.

stretchy · « **Reply #77 on:** June 03, 2009, 16:49:42 »

Was found not guilty today. The exact words was "We have looked at the style of vhecle and genuinely believe you are not guilty and contact the police station to claim your knife back. you are free to go"

How embaricing got a parking ticket as they was about to lookover the disco. hahaaa :dance:

paul_humphreys · « **Reply #78 on:** June 03, 2009, 17:07:07 »

Well at least someone has some common sense.

Paul

crazymac · « **Reply #79 on:** June 03, 2009, 19:15:32 »

Common sense prevailed, but what a waste of court time!!

stretchy · « **Reply #80 on:** June 06, 2009, 21:14:31 »

the police are making it very dificault for me to claim it back, been there 4 times now

Lord Shagg-Pyle · « **Reply #81 on:** June 06, 2009, 21:27:41 »

Property stores usually only open 9-5 monday to friday. Just make sure you have a big bag to put it in, right at the bottom!

Range Rover Blues · « **Reply #82 on:** June 07, 2009, 20:00:23 »

Quote from: stretchy on June 03, 2009, 16:49:42

Was found not guilty today. The exact words was "We have looked at the style of vhecle and genuinely believe you are not guilty and contact the police station to claim your knife back. you are free to go"

How embaricing got a parking ticket as they was about to lookover the disco. hahaaa :dance:

Are you applying for costs? as I believe you are entitled to apply for the cost of your defense, loss of earnings for the appearence and reasonable travel expenses.

carbore · « **Reply #83 on:** June 08, 2009, 16:42:06 »

Oute "That indicates to me they was angling for a conviction right from the word go."

Thats a terrible pun you realise.

Smego · « **Reply #84 on:** June 09, 2009, 17:17:46 »

Quote from: stretchy on June 06, 2009, 21:14:31

the police are making it very difficult for me to claim it back, been there 4 times now

Make sure you do get it back as they like to claim the "right" to destroy knifes, write to the local chief super and push it!

stretchy · « **Reply #85 on:** June 18, 2009, 18:56:29 »

Got my knife back today guys. arrgghh Im agrovated man... she had a right go at me, she said that they can bring this case back up at anytime and that all the details of the vhecle and pictures of the knife etc have been loged on the PNC and I will be pulled over at anytime. Its been fairly rutine up till today and now I do feel it was personal she was telling me If I dont go straight home with it il be rearested and charged for both acounts and alsorts of stuf like that god that woman is on a serious power trip. I was hopeing it would be a pc that I could talk to and have a chat about and ask questions how I could cary it and still be within the law eg is stoping off at a pals house legal while carying a knife, is ther anyway I could permanantly leve it in the boot in a lock box or something but as I c ouldent get a word in i never got the chance. The police at bornvile lane are full on moreons!!!

anyway this is what it was all about

Saffy · « **Reply #86 on:** June 18, 2009, 19:16:41 »

orr err fancy, looks like the sort of thing you might find in julian clary's cutlery draw :D

surely that is a 'fantasy' blade, maybe the WPC you spoke to was actually the taste police in disguise, did it come with a official star trek Klingon dictionary?

bravo669 · « **Reply #87 on:** June 18, 2009, 19:29:55 »

Quote from: Saffy on June 18, 2009, 19:16:41

surely that is a 'fantasy' blade, maybe the WPC you spoke to was actually the taste police in disguise, did it come with a official star trek Klingon dictionary?

PMSL! :clap:

propes · « **Reply #88 on:** June 18, 2009, 19:50:47 »

Seriously stretchy you call THAT a knife, crocodile dundee would p*ss himself seeing that. I would take advantage of any knife amnesty west midlands police have and get shot (under disguise!) Saffy like your style geezer!!! Chris just joking(ish)

Lord Shagg-Pyle · « **Reply #89 on:** June 18, 2009, 20:49:57 »

Playing 'Devil's advocate' here, I would be concerned if I found that.

However, without going over old ground, if it is out of the way, and in a locked tool box of some sort in the back of the wagon, I would say you are doing the best you can to avoid further problems. I keep all my off road kit in an old ammo box that is secured.

Have to agree with Saffy though :D

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AuthorTopic: arrested for a fishingknife (Read 16147 times)