Newbie - Is a Pajero suitable?

[freenote]

Hi all,

I'm a total newbie when it comes to off road, but I've allways wanted to get into it, and I've got some spare cash coming my way next month so I'm planning to buy my first 4x4!

I'm thinking of a Mitsubishi Pajero, lifting it up a couple of inches and putting some chunky tyres on it to start with. Is that a good choice, or does anyone reccomend something else that's around the same price range?

Any help would be much appreciated.

I live in Birmingham, but will be taking it out in mid Wales, where my family live.

[dxmedia]

Jeep, fraction of the money, different league offroad 

IFS will always be the downside of mitsi's / Isuzu's...

[skids]

You are going to get so many opinions about what 4x4 is best, but I think Pajero's/Shogun's are a good choice.
I had a 2.5 LWB 2" bodylift on 32's and never got stuck and used it everyday, now I have a SWB V6 Shogun, with a 2" suspension lift on 33's.

Its all down to choice

[freenote]

Cheers for the advice guys.

Sorry to a complete noob Dxmedia but what is IFS?

And Skids, your Shogun is a beast! I'd love something like that!

[skids]

Cheers for the advice guys.

Sorry to a complete noob Dxmedia but what is IFS?

And Skids, your Shogun is a beast! I'd love something like that!

IFS is independant front suspension, you dont get a lot of articulation on Pajero's/Shogun's, but it dont stop loads of them out about off-roading and enjoying it :dance:, and getting all the places you want to go ;)

With a shogun you dont always need the same articulation as some vehicles, if I have a rear wheel off the ground I'll just switch the rear lockin diff on :P

[Disco Matt]

What I will say (and this goes for all vehicles) is that as a newbie you don't want to wade straight in with a lift and bigger tyres. You will develop far more as a driver if you keep it standard but fit all terrain tyres (and maybe some underbody protection). Keep the lift for when you feel as if you've reached the limits of what a standard truck can do, in my case has taken about three years so far and I don't want a lift, just slightly larger tyres on stock height suspension.

Most of the lanes in Mid Wales are rocky/gravelly stuff, so A/Ts will be ideal. Extreme mud patterns are actually worse on wet rock, as well as being annoyingly noisy on road, increasing your stopping distance in the wet and being overkill for laning.

If you want some locals to show you the routes and maybe give a bit of driving advice then post in the laning section, there are a few of us in that part of the world.

[skids]

What I will say (and this goes for all vehicles) is that as a newbie you don't want to wade straight in with a lift and bigger tyres. You will develop far more as a driver if you keep it standard but fit all terrain tyres (and maybe some underbody protection). Keep the lift for when you feel as if you've reached the limits of what a standard truck can do, in my case has taken about three years so far and I don't want a lift, just slightly larger tyres on stock height suspension.

Most of the lanes in Mid Wales are rocky/gravelly stuff, so A/Ts will be ideal. Extreme mud patterns are actually worse on wet rock, as well as being annoyingly noisy on road, increasing your stopping distance in the wet and being overkill for laning.

If you want some locals to show you the routes and maybe give a bit of driving advice then post in the laning section, there are a few of us in that part of the world.

Second that :)

[freenote]

Righto, cheers for all the advice.

It's about five weeks till I get my money, then I can go and buy my new toy! Can't wait!  :dance:

[dxmedia]

In short IFS is the massive limitation on a lot of modern trucks. You NEED things like lsd's and difflocks to get an IFS truck to places where a live axle up front will 'just work'

For road use, IFS is more stable and a 'better' ride, but for offroad, there's no comparison.

Depends what you want.

If your OK chopping and changing cars every few years, then get what you want and take it from there. If you want to get something to build on, then the basic layout is of upmost importance. IF you want on offroader to take you to the next level and carry on, then start with live axle both front and rear, I recommend Jeeps since for the money you won't beat the reliability or the spec. (landrover can't touch them).  If you go IFS in the near furture you'll be looking at a solid axle swap (swapping the IFS for a live axle)

I'd say that this is in my opinion, but unfortunately it's not, live axles are the way forward (pun intended) up to the point where you talking dakar spec independent suspension with massive wishbones portal hubs and huge money.

[Disco Matt]

It really does depend on what you want to do.

If you want the vehicle to be a daily driver that goes laning at weekends, then IFS won't be a problem. I know people who use Delicas, Freelanders, all sorts with IFS for this. You don't actually want an extreme off road swamp monster for this as it'll be a pig to drive on the road and will quite possibly get you more aggro on lanes.

I would say that a Pajero will be absolutely fine for laning if you fit some all terrain tyres and consider bashplates for vulnerable components. The only thing you will need to learn is how to drive an automatic off road - your left foot braking will improve dramatically!

[freenote]

To be honest, I probably won't be using it on the road that much, just to get back and forth from where it will be stored at my mum's house, to wherever I'll be taking it off road.

I've got my Beemer for daily driving.  :P

[boss]

pajaros/shoguns are annoyingly good.

IFS isnt always a downfall, some instances it can be better than live axles. but i (personally) hate shoguns(cant put it into words how much they irritate me!)! if i was going to get an offroader i would go to a company who makes 4x4s not companys who make cars and dabble in 4x4s

the best routes to go down would either be a landrover or a jeep, jeeps are good, a lighter version of a landrover and as there the no.1 choice of offroader in the states there are loads of bolt on goodies for them, but a landrover is a landrover, there slightly more agricutural they ARE good offroad and they look badass!


ultimatly the choice is yours. once you put a lift on and some nobbily tyres there all as good as each other,it just depends on the application.

[Disco Matt]

If you do want to bolt on a lot of bits then consider the costs. With a Mitsubishi or a Jeep you'll either need deep pockets, the ability to weld, or a friendly local engineering/fabrication workshop who understand how to build 4x4 bits.

I am given to understand that some Pajeros came from the factory with a lift, intended to allow the fitting of winter tyres in Japan?

Land Rovers don't necessarily break down more and don't have to be rougher. Most failures are due to driver error (this includes people who drive through bumper-deep mud and don't service them properly). If you get a good one and look after it then there's no reason for it to pose you more or less hassle than any other vehicle of a similar age and condition.

I would say that if you want to end up with an extreme off roader intended to battle around pay and play sites then start with a top spec Disco 1 or 2. It will cost you a lot less in the long run than kitting up a Pajero to the same level. Defenders to my mind are over-rated, they cost a lot more to buy in the first place and are nothing like as pleasant to drive.

P.S. watch your terminology - laning isn't off roading. Greenlanes are roads that don't have tarmac on. I've seen some spectacular flame wars erupt over that distinction!  :lol:

[marjan]

P.S. watch your terminology - laning isn't off roading. Greenlanes are roads that don't have tarmac on. I've seen some spectacular flame wars erupt over that distinction!  :lol:

Took the words right out of my mouth  :D :D

[landmannnn]

Have a look at this one on fleabay - hyraulic lift kit and change from £1200. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mitsubishi-SWB-2-5TD-PAJERO-Hydraulic-Lift-Kit-Fitted_W0QQitemZ360189744940QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item53dcfb572c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

A few things to think about, whatever brand:

You will wreck the bodywork so resale value will be very low
You will break things so don't get anything too rare
Any off road goodies will only mean that you will get more stuck

[freenote]

Righto.

Lots to think about, thanks for all the advice guys.

What did you all start off with by the way? and how good did you find them to be?

[boss]

i started with a disco tdi. there ok out of the box but only ok and things got a little out of hand with a grinder.

http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/topic,65976.0.html



all in all you should just have the mentality of "its my money" and "i like that one" when ever you ask a question like "whats the best" evereyone is going to jump in and theres is. look at the different vehicle sections on this forum and look at the various build threads. some clever people about making some very capable vehicles that arnt a landrover or a paj some dont even have a badge.

[discowoman]

Right, Pajero = cheap to buy , stupidly easy to drive, parts CAN be expensive though...also quite heavy on fuel - even the diesels
Jeep = strong solid does what it says on the tin, LOTS of petrols out there for stupid money (200-500 for a 4.0 with t&t!!!)
Discovery - cheap and reliable  good even bogg standard RUST like theres no tomorrow - but all can be repaired quite cheaply (even sills if you dont mind getting dirty)
Vitara - has a strong following, had a reputation as a 'hairdressers' car thanks to all the 'fat boy' kited ones - but check youtube for some serious vitaras

in other words - depends on what you want it to do - what your budget is - how 'economical' you need it to be, and how often you want to get the spanners out!!
I have laned in Wales in a V8 discovery - totally standard, 300Tdi discovery - totally standard, and a 1971 series 3!!!

[Disco Matt]

Started with a standard (ish) Disco on all terrain tyres, it's still standard height but on M/Ts now. They're not all rust buckets, if you avoid farm trucks and ones that have been driven off tarmac extensively there are some good ones out there. To keep the rust out, jetwash the underside thoroughly after using it in the mud and consider waxoiling it. The main reason for them rusting is that people don't wash them down properly (well, aside from some daft bits like those plastic sill trims that rub the paint off the metal underneath...)

There are a couple of really simple mods that improve a Disco massively: First off, get rid of the standard towbar and fit a detachable one. This will help your departure angle, and you can buy ones that double as a fuel tank guard. Secondly, cut the front bumper plastic down and fit some JATE rings for recovery. The lower skirt unbolts, the end caps can be trimmed, and the centre lump of plastic unscrews. This will leave you with a neat front end and a much better approach angle, as well as being able to bolt JATE rings to the ends of the chassis rails.

I've driven most of the worthwhile open lanes in Mid Wales with few problems, I'd like to go up to slightly larger tyres (245/75 R16 will fit if you trim a hidden bit of metal off the rear wing) but only because I've encountered a few ruts that had my axles scuffing. Long term, I'd also like an ARB diff lock in the back axle, bigger intercooler, and possibly a winch, although I can't see myself needing that more than once or twice a year!  :lol:

Good recovery points are essential on any 4x4 as you will get it stuck sooner or later. You will also need a good tow rope/strap and a couple of suitably rated shackles - as a rule of thumb, look for ones with a load rating stamped on them. Shackles with no numbers stamped on them might as well be made from chocolate, as you have no idea of how much load they can take before they fail. A flying shackle can kill, so for the sake of £8 or so each it's worth getting a couple of good ones. Tow straps need to be similarly rated - mine all have a stitched-in label with the date of manufacture, safe working load, etc. Check all your kit before and after use, and wash the mud out of ropes/straps as it will act as a very effective abrasive when dry.

[Onan The Barbarian]

I've had three Pajeros... still got two... and used all of them off-road.

They can be expensive to run... expect between 15 and 30 mpg, depending on your choice of engine and how heavy your right foot is!  Parts can be a tad expensive but no more so than any other import vehicle.

The key to happy Pajero ownership is regular maintenance... and cleaning the crap off the rad when you've been out playing!

This is my current off-roader...





I've tried to keep it as standard as possible... the only mods are LWB rear springs, turned-up torsion bars and 33" x 12.5" mud tyres.  It gets me everywhere I want to go.

[skids]

If you come down to Abingdon 4x4 festival this coming weekend you will see whay Pajeros and others can do, and have a good look around many types of vehicles, it might help you choose :)
http://www.abingdon4x4festival.com/

[map-man]

Don't belive those who say shoguns can't articulate :lol:





seriously tho, shogun/pajero's are a good robust motor but like everything else have there own little issues but buy a good well looked after one and it'll be fine. mines done 160,000 miles now and still going strong if a little battered now and I really abuse mine.  Fuel economy is about the same no matter what engine/gearbox combo you get and depends more on how you drive. 

[freenote]

Well you can't argue with that articulation!

Only about 3 weeks till I get paid now! It's nearly here!

[dxmedia]

Don't belive those who say shoguns can't articulate :lol:

Um, the front end isn't.

Holymoorside though?  Looks like it - great site.

IFS will never be able to do :-



and that's with the jeep short arms fitted.

I've a brilliant pic somewhere of a clieo driving further up a small twist ramp than a SWB pajero. Stock articulation on them is very limited.

[dxmedia]

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That 2nd pic, the paj had lost all traction and that was as far up the ramp it could get.  :lol: :lol:

[tinca]

how do you work out that the clio is further up than the paj, think a trip to specsavers is in need ;)

[dxmedia]

how do you work out that the clio is further up than the paj, think a trip to specsavers is in need ;)

heh your making excuses  :lol: :lol:

[dxmedia]

aww you guys are no fun.

Not a single justified retort to a paj being beaten by a clio. (the clio backed off due to Steve not wanting to damage his skirt - ken couldn't back off cus he's run out of traction ;) )

Ah well, back into the jeep / clio corner then  :clap: :clap:

[4x4modder]

pajero,s are as good as any other offroader if prepped right! i,m mad geordie ( had to rejoin as modder due to losing my password and email )
but i built this truck and it done everything it was meant to do,

[Mutz]

Well dx the Paj has no one in it which means he parked it there, also the clio needed a waffle to get past the first run of the ramp and it defo is not as high as the Paj on the ramp.

Im sure 4x4modder's paj would have gone right over the top of the ramp, welcome back MadGeordie.

And dont get me going on the Jeep front [-X