We are being so screwed....

[Boggert]

After not owning a 4x4 for almost 2 years now I may be back on the market for one.

What fits my needs is something reliable, about 3ish years old and has to have 7 seats (As The wife is a child minder).

The vehicle must have reasonable off road abilities but be able to to be driven to Prague and back from time to time.

Now there is not a massive choice for anything 4x4 out there anything with half decent 4x4 abilities is not going to cost a frigging fortune to tax even for something as old as 5 years.

Anything that has lower emissions is expensive to buy or seems to have the off road abilities of a ford focus!

I think I may have to open a savings account called "Car Tax"

It annoys me that we have gone down to 1 car to save money and in reality we still struggle to get the car we want and need. Am I right in thinking the High Tax band is going up even more?

[dxmedia]

Driving is a privalage not a right.

Sorry, but if you can't afford the car you want, then you can't afford it.

There's a reason that the economy is as screwed as it is, too many people who couldn't afford got it anyway.

[TDi90]

Driving is a privalage not a right.

Sorry, but if you can't afford the car you want, then you can't afford it.

There's a reason that the economy is as screwed as it is, too many people who couldn't afford got it anyway.

be a politician then.  :roll:

i agree boggert this guy should go into the house of commons ^^

[dxmedia]

Driving is a privalage not a right.

Sorry, but if you can't afford the car you want, then you can't afford it.

There's a reason that the economy is as screwed as it is, too many people who couldn't afford got it anyway.

be a politician then.  :roll:

i agree boggert this guy should go into the house of commons ^^

 :roll:

[Boggert]

Thanks Rob... ;)

Its not just about not being afford the car i want, I cannot afford the car I need!

I need a 4x4, I have a job that I have to get to work, no matter what. Last winter even with snow tyres on my car,  it was difficult and risky to get in to work. I also need a 4x4 for when we go to Czech...

To be fair what annoys me is its not the price of the car, thats not the problem. Its the fact the Government is making it expensive... fuel duty, tax and the fact any 4x4 that has low emissions now has a big demand and the prices are silly high. The cost of motoring is going up and up what use to be a small % of our income compared to Mortgage bills etc is not a much bigger % of our income.

[dxmedia]

Why 3 years old then, why not something 10 years old?

Fuel, tax, insurance, tyres, parts... that all the cost of motoring.

Don't know where you are in the country, but we had quite a significant amount of snow in the peaks. Derbyshire only grit the main road through the valley. Strangly it didn't effect people getting to and from work, because they know how to drive in the snow.  Do you 'really' need a 4x4? 

If your wifes a child minder why not a people carrier? They are a lot safer than 4x4's in an RTA.

If you travel to Czech, why not hire a car for that week or two?  Might work out a lot cheaper in the long run with the savings on fuel over the year?

I drive a pre 2001 4x4 (well a couple), in the past years, insurance has gone down, fuel prices have stayed about the same (55p/L) tax has gone up at the same rate as inflation ([!Expletive Deleted!] all), price of spare parts hasn't changed. I'm sure that's the same for a lot of people on here.

[Boggert]

Why 3 years old then, why not something 10 years old?

Fuel, tax, insurance, tyres, parts... that all the cost of motoring.

Don't know where you are in the country, but we had quite a significant amount of snow in the peaks. Derbyshire only grit the main road through the valley. Strangly it didn't effect people getting to and from work, because they know how to drive in the snow.  Do you 'really' need a 4x4? 

If your wifes a child minder why not a people carrier? They are a lot safer than 4x4's in an RTA.

If you travel to Czech, why not hire a car for that week or two?  Might work out a lot cheaper in the long run with the savings on fuel over the year?

I drive a pre 2001 4x4 (well a couple), in the past years, insurance has gone down, fuel prices have stayed about the same (55p/L) tax has gone up at the same rate as inflation ([!Expletive Deleted!] all), price of spare parts hasn't changed. I'm sure that's the same for a lot of people on here.

The reason I want a 3 year old car is for reliability... the last 4x4 I had was a Y plate 2001 and it ended up costing me £1700 in repairs and I'm just not going through all that again! Its ok when you have several cars to choose from but when its your only car its a pain.

We have a people carrier which is fine.

Cost of Hiring a car for a 3 week trip to Czech would be massive! Plus we need a 4x4 when we are there especially in winter.

[lurch_917]

why not buy a pre 2001 as thats when the emisions rules changed alowing you to use normal road tax + £5

[Boggert]

As I have said... The reason I do not want a Pre 2001 one is its our only car and I must have something reliable. My last Y reg one cost me £1700 in repairs when the Turbo ate its self and the manifold!

We have to have a reliable family car and I have beeen stung once with an older car... not again.

[V8MoneyPit]

Although I can understand your thoughts on reliability, a few years ago, Sarah insisted we had a new car because I insisted on driving around an a 1983 Land Rover 110. The Seat Arosa (3 months old with 349 miles on the clock) got towed home twice by me in the 110 ...... did I laugh or what??  :lol: :lol:

[dxmedia]

New <> reliable by a long stretch.

A direct injection mechanical diesel engine (isuzu 2.8? Diahtsu 2.8?). That's reliable.

A sensor heavy common rail with 5 ecu's keeping it running?  Na designed weak points.

Petrol engine with CPS, MAF, Lamba and simple fuel injection, that's reliable.

Known good repuation manfuacters.

Give me my 4.0 jeep over any landrover any day.

Give me a 4.2 landcruiser 80 over any 4x4 any other day.

[Boggert]

New <> reliable by a long stretch.

A direct injection mechanical diesel engine (isuzu 2.8? Diahtsu 2.8?). That's reliable.

A sensor heavy common rail with 5 ecu's keeping it running?  Na designed weak points.

Petrol engine with CPS, MAF, Lamba and simple fuel injection, that's reliable.

Known good repuation manfuacters.

Give me my 4.0 jeep over any landrover any day.

Give me a 4.2 landcruiser 80 over any 4x4 any other day.

Yeah right not sure what the last bit is about but what I'm saying is I need something that is not going to cost me 500pa to tax, that is about 3 years old and I can drive to Czech... seems the sentiments of a few is we should only drive old 4x4's. I'm not talking about something I will take laning just a reasonable4x4 for every day use.

[mike142sl]

The Tax jumps up to £400 + from 56 plates I think, I've got it in my mind that 55 plates are the last to avoid the stinging tax bands. My 04 is still just over £200. So a 4 yr old 55 plate may be a compromise - after all it sounds like a compromise is what you are going to have to make if you are unable to jutify the costs of anything newer.

[V8MoneyPit]

Ultimately, the reliability of a modern, complex, vehicle comes down to the quality of the components. There is no reason why any sensor shouldn't last 100,000 miles. The problem is we all demand cheaper cars and the manufacturers (well, some of them anyway) are forced to use poorer quality components to keep the overall cost in check.

Buy a cheap car (or any other product for that matter) and you run the risk of reliabilty issues.

We were dissapointed with the Arosa, being built in Stuttgart on the VW line, we thought it might be a good buy. But the electrics proved poor.

Of course, just because a car is expensive, doesn't mean it is built with good quality parts..... just look at Mercedes' reputation for poor reliabilty in recent years.

It's a minefield out there!

[Boggert]

Yeah True, the Merc ML you would think would last for a long time, however it built in America and is rubbis.

Where my mate has a Kia 4x4 and its brilliant, great off road even in the heavy stuff and never let him down.

[V8MoneyPit]

I've always liked the look of the Hyundai Tucson, but I don't know where it falls in the tax ratings.... or how it fares in reliabilty terms.

[Disco Matt]

But equally you get things like the Kia Ceed, which has proved to be very reliable but is also reasonably priced. If it wasn't for badge snobbery Audi and VW would have a real headache on their hands from Korea. Can you see them offering the long warranty that Kia do? If their cars are as wonderful as they claim, surely they'd feel safe to offer a similar length warranty on them?  :twisted:

"German Build Quality" is meaningless these days, it's just an excuse for charging more.

[V8MoneyPit]

"German Build Quality" is meaningless these days, it's just an excuse for charging more.

I have to agree. I've got an 18 year old MB 190E and it's still going strong. I can't really imagine many current MB models being around in 18 years.

[carbore]

Hello, you have my sympathy as I understand your issue.

The problem is that the taxation clobbers those that NEED larger or 4x4 cars (A large 4x4 will always be less economical/make more C02 in comparison to smaller 2wd cars of the same age)
Unfortunately those who NEED them are caught up with what are reasonable desires/concern, whipped up into frenzy due to the fact that 4x4 were very trendy and bought by those who diddnt "need" them.
The fact that the media widley reported a "tax on 4x4's" shows the level of ignorance and misdirection on this issue, especially when people with minibuses/estate cars got hammered after being a bit smug (ha ha).

As far as I am concerned this is a classic case of "town politics" how often do you see people on TV say "No one needs a 4x4" or "They never see a muddy hill" etc. Well I drive my Freelander off road EVERY DAY, I live done 200M of green lane thats currently rutted up and 3 inches deep in rain water. Thats excluding my towing and driving round my fields issues.

I sort of feel the same about knife crime. Now, if I put my coat on and find I forgot to take my locking penkife out of the pocket Im a criminal, thanks to what happens in London.

Unfortunatley none of this really helps you. You could look at how much it costs to hire a 4x4 for the big trips?
I agree that the Kia Ceed is a danm fine car
How about 4x4 "cars" like outlander, volvo cross, etc? or quashqui

I agree you want a 3yrs old car as finding a decent old car is hassle, unfortunately I think that <3yrs + 4x4 + 7 seats = £££££££tax!!!!! and there is no alternative?

[muddyjames]

When you say decent 4x4 abilities. How off road are you going to be going or is it just in muddy fields and on snow and ice etc? Thought about a pickup? My ranger on a 56 plate costs £125 a year to tax and commercial tax doesnt seem to go up as fast as car tax, 4x4 abilities I have tried with it so far are good, returns 28mpg average, 156bhp, 3 tonne towing limit (largest of all the pickup crew cabs about). Ok I got stung on insurance because I am still "young" (27 years old  :roll: ) but mot is still classed as group 4 so cheap. Loads of room in the boot for kids buggies etc as well.

[ben-dent]

When you say decent 4x4 abilities. How off road are you going to be going or is it just in muddy fields and on snow and ice etc? Thought about a pickup? My ranger on a 56 plate costs £125 a year to tax and commercial tax doesnt seem to go up as fast as car tax, 4x4 abilities I have tried with it so far are good, returns 28mpg average, 156bhp, 3 tonne towing limit (largest of all the pickup crew cabs about). Ok I got stung on insurance because I am still "young" (27 years old  :roll: ) but mot is still classed as group 4 so cheap. Loads of room in the boot for kids buggies etc as well.

unfortunatly the MOT on a dual purpose vehicle is not class 4 any more, they have changed the ruleing on this as people have always been unsure about it, and they have changed the class for dual purpose vehicles exceding 2040KG ULW (un-ladened weight)i can t find the information on the internet about it, but i can get the information from the MOT computer at work and scan it in and post it up here,

[bogie]

Buy a couple of huskeys and a series roof,job done,thats cheap transport!

[landmannnn]

When you say decent 4x4 abilities. How off road are you going to be going or is it just in muddy fields and on snow and ice etc? Thought about a pickup? My ranger on a 56 plate costs £125 a year to tax and commercial tax doesnt seem to go up as fast as car tax, 4x4 abilities I have tried with it so far are good, returns 28mpg average, 156bhp, 3 tonne towing limit (largest of all the pickup crew cabs about). Ok I got stung on insurance because I am still "young" (27 years old  :roll: ) but mot is still classed as group 4 so cheap. Loads of room in the boot for kids buggies etc as well.

unfortunatly the MOT on a dual purpose vehicle is not class 4 any more, they have changed the ruleing on this as people have always been unsure about it, and they have changed the class for dual purpose vehicles exceding 2040KG ULW (un-ladened weight)i can t find the information on the internet about it, but i can get the information from the MOT computer at work and scan it in and post it up here,

Being quite a lot older I have the benefit of £125pa on tax and cheap insurance on a navara.  Makes a good road motor but a bit large for proper off roading. 

Double cabs are still class 4 this year, changing to class 7 next year.  Not much difference since a class 7 mot is about a quid more than class 4.

[Mark Y]

My 05 Disco 3 is the lower tax bracket £215 I think, I wouldn't give it up, take out an aftermarket warranty to cover those moments, have a look at www.disco3.co.uk   superb information and help, my servicing and repairs are carried out by a mobile mechanic from the site and 7 very comfortable seats, with superb off road ability.

[carbore]

I strongly suspect my next Car will be a Disco 3 like the above, I need something with capcity for 4+granny and pams etc + offroad abillity and Van like boot space.

[Disco Matt]

What happened to the proposed retrospective tax hikes on 01-05 vehicles? They seem to have been quietly dropped but with no indication as to whether they'll be formally abandoned.

I wouldn't expect either of the likely contenders for the next government to be any less brutal with their taxation of fuel and vehicles. They're all as London-centric and ignorant of life beyond the M25 as each other.

[dxmedia]

What happened to the proposed retrospective tax hikes on 01-05 vehicles? They seem to have been quietly dropped but with no indication as to whether they'll be formally abandoned.

I wouldn't expect either of the likely contenders for the next government to be any less brutal with their taxation of fuel and vehicles. They're all as London-centric and ignorant of life beyond the M25 as each other.

Was in this years buget that they are being put on hold for a year till we're out of resession. Look forward to them being re-introduced though.

[JumboBeef]

My 96 Disco V8 LPG is going to be worth a fortune in a few years time  :dance: :lol:

[Boggert]

With me its going to be a case of save up and get what I want... there is no point in getting something I do not really want. even if it is what this bloody government want.

I think I shall probably keep saving for a bit more.